Feedback on work repeatedly postponed
Thread poster: Josephine Cassar

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:17
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
Mar 6, 2013

Hi all,
I wonder of you ever did any translation work, not for pay but to help out someone, but the person said he/she would provide feedback and even give the TM if i wanted. This has been going on since end November 2012; I did the translation in record time and gave it in within a week or less but, despite several emails through ProZ.com too, the person concerned has so far not given any feedback or TM It is the feedback I want more than the TM and I wonder if there can be a system of putting like a black mark against such a person. A bargain is a bargain after all and it is the least the person involved can do; it makes me feel that next time, I will not help out.
What do you think?
Many thanks
Josephine


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:17
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Clarify, please? Mar 6, 2013

What do you mean by "not for pay but to help out someone"? Did you help another translator to finish up a large job that was too big for him/her? Or did you do this translation for a non-profit or for a humanitarian cause? I assume it is not for a friend who needed some personal documents translated, otherwise you would not talk about receiving a TM.
Could you clarify the story?


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:17
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Help someone who knows about TMs? Mar 6, 2013

Josephine Cassar wrote:
the person said he/she would provide feedback and even give the TM if i wanted.

I'm sorry, Josephine, but I think it's likely you've been fed a line here. I can understand helping a friend with a CV; or an estate agent with the first-ever client who asked for a translation of their property details; or someone of your own country who receives something through the post in a language they don't understand: that's called "lending a hand". But someone who knows what the acronym "TM" means is a professional in the translation industry. Hence, a favour is always going to be a shade of grey, an "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine" type of favour.

You didn't ask much of them, I know, but I think it may have been too much; I think maybe they took what they wanted and left. It's a place I suspect most of us have visited; that place where we're willing to lend a hand, but the other party just wants to take.icon_frown.gif Suffice it to say that I'm accepting fewer and fewer favours as I get older. But I'm happy to say that I haven't completely lost faith in the human race, and I hope you don't either.


 

Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:17
Member
English to French
Well done Mar 7, 2013

Josephine Cassar wrote:
... next time, I will not help out.
What do you think?

Don't help out in business. It's business.
There are many other ways to help people.

Philippe


 

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:17
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feedback on work repeatedly postponed Mar 7, 2013

Thank you all for your contribution. Let me explain. I was new to ProZ.com and I found this call for help on this forum site. I offered, not knowing it was not a job, never mind so far-practice at least. It seems the person was doing some degree, at least that was the explanation, but never provided feedback or TM as promised. True that the person might perceive me as competitor even if my preferred languages are Maltese/English/Italian/French, and the translation was French to English. The person has a website but despite repeated emails, did not send what promised or reply lately. The person's post is in Forum; I would not have said anything and anyway I am not revealing much but promise was not kept. Can I put something like Unlikely to collaborate or work again with XXXX? There should be such a feature just as there is for Positive/ Neutral feedback from outsourcers for us. I worked hard to give the work before so person could start working on it. Thank you all.

 

Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 23:17
Member
English to Hebrew
+ ...
You can make a BlueBoard Entry Mar 8, 2013

Hello Josephine,
I'm sorry to read about your mishap.
I only want to echo what Sheila and Philippe wrote. They gave an invaluable advice.
There is no room for favors in a business capacity.

Personally, I wouldn't bother continue chasing this person, these are time and energy that would be better invested in something productive to advance your career.
If you want to report that person to the community you can search for their BlueBoard entry (or create one if they currently don't have one) and rate your experience.

I also have a question. If you did the actual translation, how come you don't have the TM? The only reason that I can think of is that you are not using any TEnT, in which case, the TM will not be very useful to you anyway. If it is still important for you, you can simply align the source and target texts and create the TM yourself.

[Edited at 2013-03-08 15:40 GMT]


 

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:17
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feedback on work repeatedly postponed Mar 8, 2013

Thank you Shai, I was new, so I do not have TM. I would have taken note of any alternatives or correct terms. I take them down but do not use any software yet. Any trouble with administration if I create an entry since it was promised or is it better that I ask Administration? Anyway, emails/correspondence go through them. They can see the forum post where "job" was posted and what was promised, etc.
I really hate to pass a bad remark which is what a BBE is but will if necessary. How do I create it?Many thanks.


 

Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 23:17
Member
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Here is how to create a BlueBoard entry Mar 8, 2013

This is quote by Lucia Leszinsky made in another discussion explaining how to add someone to the BB
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
Hello all,

Remember that if an outsourcer is not listed in the Blue Board, you can add a record for them here:

http://www.proz.com/blueboard/?sp_mode=add ("Jobs & directories" tab > "Blue Board" > "Add outsourcer")

After you add an outsourcer to the Blue Board, site staff checks the information submitted to confirm the outsourcer's details and, upon approving the record, an automatic "Call for entries" is made. This means that a request for LWA (Likelihood of Working Again) entries is published on the ProZ.com home page and an email is sent to all those who have subscribed to such requests.

You will find more information about the Blue Board record here: http://www.proz.com/faq/blue_board_outsourcer_database_.html

Lucia


As for the validity of making an entry in this case, I don't see any reason for anyone to object. There is a difference between FREE work and UNPAID work. The former should be always avoided because it means giving your work while getting nothing in return. The latter should be carefully chosen and reserved only to those relativity rare cases in which the received value justifies the hassle. In your case, you did the work for the TM and feedback, these are 'the value' of this transaction from your perspective. Because that person failed to fulfill their end of the deal, you have every right, in my opinion, to post an appropriate BB entry, just like with every other case of non-payment.

If you are not using any software that will enable you to use the TM as a reference, there is really no point on insisting having it. As I said before, you can always create it yourself anyway.


 

Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:17
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
How was the job posted? Mar 8, 2013

Josephine Cassar wrote:

They can see the forum post where "job" was posted and what was promised, etc.


Out of interest, was this "job" published as a job posting and if so, was it clear that it wouldn't be paid? Or was it posted on a discussion forum?

In any case, I don't think either is allowed on Proz, unless the company makes it clear it is not-for-profit.


 

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:17
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feedback on work repeatedly postponed Mar 8, 2013

Yes, Shai and Emma, it was clear that there was no payment involved, so I cannot grumble about that. Anyway, it was posted on Forum site, not on Job site, so not for profit(as I had mistakenly understood since I was still new to site. But the person promised to send me feedback and the TM, which is also what I wanted, as Shai says. In that case, as the person has not answered last email sent through ProZ.com, I will see about making a BBE entry. What is the best way of creating your own TM? I put terms under different headings under different language pairs.
Thank you for your interest.


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:17
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
BB entry and forum post Mar 8, 2013

I am not sure whether the site rules would allow you to post a BB entry in this case. Perhaps, if we see the forum posting you are talking about, we would understand the situation better.
If the posting is still visible on the Forums somewhere, could you provide the link?
I don't think it is against the rules, as it is not a job posting and it seems the person is not an outsourcer (per their own definition).
On the other hand, did you say you translated the text into English?
Katalin


 

Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:17
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
TMs and glossaries Mar 9, 2013

Josephine Cassar wrote:

What is the best way of creating your own TM? I put terms under different headings under different language pairs.


Just to clarify, a translation memory (TM) is a database containing segments (usually whole sentences) that have been translated. If you didn't use a CAT tool you have to align the source and target files using special software to produce the TM. Of course, this is of no value to you or your client if neither of you use a CAT tool.

A glossary or a termbase (TB) is a bilingual or multilingual list of terms usually in a specific field. If clients have their own in-house TB they send it to you before you start a job so that you can use their terminology choices.

You can start creating a glossary in Excel using one column for each language and if you decide to use a CAT tool one day, you'll be able to convert your Excel glossary to a TB to use in that tool. This is a good step for you to make, but certainly not one that can be requested of or offered by a client.

In fact, a "TM" requested by you or offered by the client is a red flag itself.


 

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:17
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
LWA ENTRY Mar 19, 2013

Hi all, thanks to your feedback, I managed to add outsourcer- it was approved, filled in details last week- and wonder of wonders, received an email with feedback from the person concerned. Said "technical problems", of course, but would never had answered had I not put the LWA negative comment. Thank you all for your help & gl to all

 


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