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No reply to rejected proposals / Cooperation proposals without rates
Thread poster: Vesna Maširević

Vesna Maširević  Identity Verified
Serbia
Local time: 10:51
English to Serbian
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Aug 9, 2013

Tom in London wrote:

I have never, ever, received a reply from anyone for any Proz jobs for which I have quoted. I gave up doing this a long time ago. My impression is that outsourcers are simply looking for the cheapest rate, and that they don't bother replying to anyone else (they probably get hundreds of quotes). It's a tough world out there !

[Edited at 2012-07-03 15:51 GMT]


I am absolutely grateful for this post.

Not that it has changed my view on the matter... I still believe that the fact they get many quotes is no excuse for their total lack of respect for those who might actually put a lot of effort into quoting for their jobs.

There should be some system on ProZ (like some other freelancing sites actually have) which would force job posters to at least: initially reject unacceptable proposals and then provide reasons for rejection to a selected group of at least 10 proposals. Having the option to see who was actually selected for the job would be a great plus.

This way, after more than two years on this site (which is probably not much, but should be enough for the sake of this discussion), I've almost reached a point where I wonder whether some jobs are posted only to investigate how much other translators charge.
Of course, it is highly possible that they "are simply looking for the cheapest rate". If that is the case, why don't they reply even to proposals with no specific rate offered?
While we are on the subject, do you think it is a bad idea in general to offer one's services without quoting your price and/or to ask for their suggestion on the rate? (of course not when dealing with direct clients; those you might not expect to have an idea of translation rates).

It has probably been reported many times but I guess there is no harm in repeating: the minimum rates reported on ProZ (at least my language pairs) are absolutely ridiculous. On top of that, I wonder how low are some people willing to go.. Some even proudly show off their slave rates.
Is it just me or is there still some shred of truth in the equation lowest rate = lowest quality?

Not that I haven't had any use of being on this site but constant applying for jobs without any feedback is like doing a test over and over again and always making the same mistakes because you are sure you know what you are doing but you keep failing because there is nothing to point you in a different direction.


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Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 17:51
Member
Chinese to English
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Really? Aug 9, 2013

Do you seriously expect anyone to craft 50 rejection emails by hand listing detailed reasons for rejection other than "we've selected another applicant, thank you for your time"? Or would you be satisfied with worthless automated rejection emails listing stock reasons sent en masse? Do you seriously expect an agency to go to the length of writing back to everybody who applied for the translation of a 250-word letter, when it would take twice as long as the translation itself?

Maybe in your quarter of the world all companies write back to every single applicant, but fact is that most application letters for any kind of job are sent and will never see the light of day again. A recent graduate might send out tens if not hundreds of applications and they could hardly be expected to even remember about individual ones, so what makes you think that a company who might receive thousands of applications should be obliged to reply individually, when the recruiting cycle might take months and the rejection letter sent two months after the application to someone who didn't even make it to the interview stage is worthless to everyone involved and prohibitively expensive?

Applications are a fire-and-forget thing, and if you pour your heart and soul into one and wait at your mailbox day after day waiting for a response, you are doing something wrong. Save your effort for responding to people who actively seek you out with an offer.

Having the option to see who was actually selected for the job would be a great plus.

Why would I feel the need for my name need to be broadcasted to all 50 people who applied and their dogs? While we're at it, why don't we make public the identity of everybody who applies for every job?


why don't they reply even to proposals with no specific rate offered?
While we are on the subject, do you think it is a bad idea in general to offer one's services without quoting your price and/or to ask for their suggestion on the rate? .

ProZ.com says:
Quotes without specific pricing rarely get responses.

Maybe that's the reason why you don't get responses? The button is called "Submit Quote" for a reason and if you don't even submit a quote, how could you possibly expect people to take you seriously? If I were a client, why would I even bother looking at that application, much less write to the effect that "Your application has been rejected because we clearly asked that applicants include their rates with their application"?


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:51
Member (2007)
English
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Some comments Aug 9, 2013

Vesna Maširević wrote:
There should be some system on ProZ (like some other freelancing sites actually have) which would force job posters to at least: initially reject unacceptable proposals and then provide reasons for rejection to a selected group of at least 10 proposals. Having the option to see who was actually selected for the job would be a great plus.

I don't think ProZ.com sees itself as that sort of site - those are the ones that proscribe all non-site communication, who handle payments between freelancers and 'employers', who insist on feedback from both parties...and where rates are normally a fraction of what most of us here would accept. Those are sweatshop counters, whereas this is a free marketplace. The most common place to land jobs here isn't even the job board; it's via messages from clients based on selections made from the directory. That's how most of the best clients contact their preferred translators.

it is highly possible that they "are simply looking for the cheapest rate". If that is the case, why don't they reply even to proposals with no specific rate offered?

Yes, I believe a number of those clients who post regularly on the open job board are indeed looking for the lowest rate. That being the case, why on earth would they reply to any that don't have rates? Surely, that omission tells a story, doesn't it? If you were prepared to do the job for less than 90% of translators, would you hide that fact? Career professional freelancers quote for their projects. They may not be able to give a firm quote before seeing the work involved, but they know their rates. They certainly don't ask agencies to suggest a rate!

It has probably been reported many times but I guess there is no harm in repeating: the minimum rates reported on ProZ (at least my language pairs) are absolutely ridiculous.

You mean those listed in the "Community Rates" tool? Well, it's just statistics collected from our profiles. I don't really know whether the minimum rate is that useful, but it certainly seems fairly accurate for my pair - many, many translators have spoken in similar terms. But like all statistics, they are easily skewed. In your pairs, maybe the sample size isn't large enough to overcome natural skew.

On top of that, I wonder how low are some people willing to go.. Some even proudly show off their slave rates.
Is it just me or is there still some shred of truth in the equation lowest rate = lowest quality?

I'm sure that as a general statement, it still holds true. But with the current global web-based economy and the lack of regulation in our profession, anyone can suddenly quote for jobs. You're competing (on price terms only, of course) against anyone who speaks your languages: school kids, mums with babies on their laps, the long-term unemployed, bored retired people... The last category, in particular, may well provide excellent quality for low rates.

Not that I haven't had any use of being on this site but constant applying for jobs without any feedback is like doing a test over and over again and always making the same mistakes because you are sure you know what you are doing but you keep failing because there is nothing to point you in a different direction.

True, but I don't think forcing people to leave feedback would be productive. Personally, I DO sometimes receive feedback from job board postings, and even the job on occasions. To quote from the membership screen "Over half of all job postings are restricted to ProZ.com members for at least twelve hours." I can imagine that the first few to apply might receive feedback, whereas 13 hours later new quotes simply get binned, probably because the job has already been awarded.


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Marie-Helene Dubois  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:51
Member (2011)
Spanish to English
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"Proz minimum rates" don't exist Aug 9, 2013

There is no such thing as minimum rates suggested by Proz.
If you look at the tools Proz offers and check out the Community Rates area, you will clearly see that these are not meant in any way to be rates suggested by Proz.

These are the rates that people put on their profile in their rate range to be used when clients enter rates in their searches.

So let's say that a client is searching for a translator and they have a list of 1000. What they can do is to reduce this list by entering a rate of let's say 10 (wholly hypothetical and fictional number to illustrate the example) in their search string and they'll get a list of all the translators who would accept 10.

Different people's logic works in different ways. Some people enter a range of 10-12 if they really work within these rates and some people with the same rates may enter a range of 8-14, or 6-12 or even 10-20.

Some people are not bothered if they are contacted by an agency that wants to pay 8 when they work for 10 either because they are open to negotiation on rates or because they are confident in their ability to up-sell their services once the agency contacts them or because they don't want to be left out, even from a search by a client who doesn't pay their rate.

Some people are bothered if they are contacted by an agency that wants to pay 8 when they work for 10 because they either get offended or don't want to have to reply or enter into negotiations.

Therefore the rates on that tool cannot in any way be interpreted as a suggestion or something endorsed by Proz. Proz has nothing at all to do with the rates entered other than showing them.

I would also add that if I were an outsourcer I wouldn't reply to everyone who sent me an offer. Imagine how much workload that would create. It's just not an efficient use of anyone's time.

I equally wouldn't deign to reply to an offer without a price just as I wouldn't reply to a builder who sent me an estimate without a price.


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Rossana Triaca  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 06:51
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
A view from the other side... Aug 9, 2013

After 12 years freelancing, I finally decided to team up for good and establish a small agency last year; since then I have posted only 3 jobs in Proz (since we work mostly with local translators I know personally), and it was really insightful from the get-go to be "on the other side".

At the risk of boring you all, let me tell you how it's been so far!

Job #1:

Since it was a simple formatting job, and it was well-paid, I was thrilled to be able to offer it to members, non-members and students alike, thinking I was giving back to the community... I hesitated before posting when Proz announced that it would be sent to more than 3000 users, but hey, I thought the reply ratio would be manageable since I had requested a small mandatory test as well, so only serious applicants would answer, right? You can see where this is going... to this day, I still get spammed with CVs from translators in abstruse language combinations we don't work with in fields we've never even heard of (if you needed a Maltese to Swahili specialist in transhumance farming, I'm sure I could have produced one from my overflowing spam inbox). I set up individual email accounts from now on for specific projects, only to be able to *delete* them afterwards!

Needless to say, I had set out with the firm intention of answering everyone, even if it was to decline their offer, but the sheer number of emails (and sorting!) made it impossible. I do think we ended up answering everyone that had actually bothered to do the test, but I cannot be 100% sure I didn't miss one email.

And even from the people that we declined, we now had several that came back to dispute the results, and this was not even a translation job, just formatting! (so, there was no subjective criteria - either you had followed the instructions or not).

We did shortlist five nice candidates and worked with 3 of them happily for several months until the project naturally came to an end, but I'm sure I unwillingly offended a lot of people with a non-response.

Job #2:

The proofreader we had lined up for a job got MIA before a deadline on a Friday, so I had to post a rush job to be done over the weekend (fortunately it was a very short text); I had about 25 quotes and quickly selected a translator who did a good and fast job, and I can assure you it was not the lowest bid (I was surprised at the low bids some translators quoted, specially considering it was an over-the-weekend job). However, I hated the idea of "mass declining" the rest of the bids without explanation, so I left the job open to try to provide feedback to the translators later that week after we had completed the urgent assignment.

Alas, this was not possible; something came-up (a wild new client appears!) and before I knew it the job was closed automatically (I did get a notification email, but there is no option to ask for an extension).

Job #3:

I'm sorry to say this job had a low budget (it was actually done at a loss for us so we could keep a big client happy and help them out of a tight spot), so I wasn't expecting great things from the start, plus it was part of a much bigger job we were also managing and my hours were stretched as is...

None the less, I had about 20 bids, selected one that, again, was not the lowest (a certified translator with credentials and almost two decades of experience), replied to one I liked but couldn't afford to save his contact data, and seriously wanted to provide feedback to some of the other translators, particularly one whose bid was just a sentence along the lines of "Hire me, I'm cheap." (I kid you not, that was the entirety of her bid), or to the translator that listed all his (unrelated) hobbies like playing piano and taking long walks in the beach (did I mention this was a legal text?)... but things went south fast when I had to devote a lot of extra hours to the project (and by extra hours I mean close to zero sleep time for 3 days) when I received barely edited Google Translator garbage in return (but that is a story for another time).

By now, I was honestly tired and disenchanted with the whole venture; again I couldn't devote the time to write a note to the remaining 18 quoters, and frankly I began wondering what I would accomplish doing so. Will these notes be taken constructively? Or will this lead to further back and forth that I don't have the time to answer? Also, I didn't always have a clear-cut reason for not choosing some of the translators; reading bids and CVs forms an impression, and not all the time you can put a finger on why you prefer someone else...

All in all, I've learned that:

1) Not getting an answer is really the natural and logical default answer, and you shouldn't take it personally since there are a ton of logistic issues behind this. If you're the right fit you will be picked, and if they like you even though you're not the right pick this time, you can be sure they'll have you in mind for future projects.

(This had happened to me a lot in the past, agencies/clients that contacted me out of the blue for a bid I did months ago - I understand now how this comes to happen). Also, I now bid more often, devoting a lot less time, and I don't worry for a second after I clicked on "submit" nor plan anything based on this.

2) Translators may talk proudly about rates in public but a lot are willing to go really low in private. I don't know if this is for specific projects or just for the runts of the litter, but this hasn't changed my pricing policies as a translator (in fact, I may even be quoting higher than ever), since I did feel with the lowest bids I was sure to get bad quality (I'm sure you can also find awful translators with high rates, but I bet the correlation is much lower), and I want to distance myself from them as much as possible. I'm sure this does not apply to all agencies, but those clients are a headache anyway and not worth your time, so if they *did* choose based solely on rates, be happy you dodged that bullet!

3) The WWA number of entries did affect my view a lot more than I thought, specially when people had 10+ entries (there's people with over 30 entries out there!); after all, even if half of those entries were friends, that still means there are at least 5 satisfied customers somewhere in the world. Although this does not replace a thorough reference check, it does allow you to shift much more quickly and it's simply eye-catching.

As a translator, I had always been more in the camp of "don't bother the clients with requests", and hence never really actively solicited WWA entries, but from now on I'll certainly focus on that.

4) Since you are competing for attention among a long scrolling list of candidates, short and to the point bids are always better. Forget useless salutations ("Dear Sir/Madam" - I even got a very non-PC "Dear Sirs" and one "Ladies and Gentlemen:"), as well as long-winded introductions (I am writing in connection...) for bids; it's an automated system, I know which project you're talking about, and a generic salutation tells me you don't even know my name (if you don't have a contact name, simply skip the salutation). The format is not that of a letter, you get a header with the translator basics (with check marks next to each requirement they fulfill), the title of your bid and then the quote text itself.

You can always provide plenty of details in your CV or profile, there's no need to go over everything in the bid; this should be just an explanation of why you are right for the job, and it should definitely include rates (I flat out discarded bids without rates; I didn't have the time to engage in yet another exchange just to find out if you're below/over my budget).

I could go on for hours and hours... posting jobs here has been really eye-opening as to the technicalities involved!


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:51
Member (2007)
English
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Thanks for opening our eyes, too Aug 9, 2013

Rossana Triaca wrote:
I could go on for hours and hours... posting jobs here has been really eye-opening as to the technicalities involved!

Thanks a lot, Rossana. That made for a very interesting read.


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Vesna Maširević  Identity Verified
Serbia
Local time: 10:51
English to Serbian
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TOPIC STARTER
Answer to first 3 replies Aug 9, 2013

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Do you seriously expect anyone to craft 50 rejection emails by hand…
…what makes you think that a company who might receive thousands of applications should be obliged to reply individually …

We are not talking about thousands of applications here.
Nonetheless, dealing with an unreasonable number of proposals/offers is the reason I suggested there should be some system to get around the issue…
But, I should make it clear - this is just a point I raised in order to discover what should I change in my own approach – I am not after the idea of changing the world.
Maybe in your quarter of the world

There are some things I consider to be acts of simple human decency (not to be misunderstood - this does not, in any way refer to answering thousands of emails nor anything on the subject).
My 12 years’ experience in the business world (involving working for a multinational company and providing services to clients all over the world) has taught me that such acts are highly appreciated.
… if you pour your heart and soul into one ...

Actually, I do pour my heart and soul into everything I do.
However, that might be considered as an act of wrongdoing only towards myself.
Why would I feel the need for my name need to be broadcasted to all 50 people who applied and their dogs? While we're at it, why don't we make public the identity of everybody who applies for every job?

I do not think anyone feels the need.. But the rejected ones would surely appreciate the opportunity of seeing that at least someone was eventually selected, not to mention that knowing who that someone is would tell a lot about the process of selection.
The button is called "Submit Quote" for a reason

Clearly, I was not referring to communication involving pressing a button after entering a number.
Anyway, thank you for your input.


Sheila Wilson wrote:
That being the case, why on earth would they reply to any that don't have rates? Surely, that omission tells a story, doesn't it? If you were prepared to do the job for less than 90% of translators, would you hide that fact? Career professional freelancers quote for their projects. They may not be able to give a firm quote before seeing the work involved, but they know their rates. They certainly don't ask agencies to suggest a rate!

Well, you said it yourself - it is difficult to develop an accurate fee estimate without having the details of the field, word count, deadlines.. (especially when it’s a situation like ‘looking for translators to join our team for potentially long-term cooperation’).
However, skipping the rates is just an idea I’ve decided to pursue after concluding that my rates might be too high.
And, to be honest – the idea, in fact, comes from a sales training I once took where they taught us that the party that comes out with the price first is always in worse position.
Probably that is not the way to go when it comes to freelancing around the web
Anyway, I highly appreciate your comments and will surely quit the experiment

Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
There is no such thing as minimum rates suggested by Proz.

I know how the system works just don’t understand why the users keep their rates at incredible heights that are never reached in reality. But, perhaps this is not an issue applicable to all language pairs (or all countries, I might add).


[Edited at 2013-08-09 15:37 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-08-09 15:50 GMT]


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Vesna Maširević  Identity Verified
Serbia
Local time: 10:51
English to Serbian
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TOPIC STARTER
To "the other side" Aug 9, 2013

Rossana Triaca wrote:

...

I am very grateful for your post and tips and I must say it is a relief to hear from the other side

In fact, at the risk of releasing "the dogs" I feel as if this topic is doing great acting as a means of 'personal therapy' for me

[Edited at 2013-08-09 16:08 GMT]


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Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:51
German to English
Need a thick skin Aug 9, 2013

As Rossana mentioned, sometimes the sheer volume of applicants precludes responding to each rejection individually. A lot of agencies are basically single-shingle operations with an owner and an office assistant or two who are more concerned with managing the workflow than worrying about the feelings of potential vendors. Screening applicants is a multistage process: separating suitable from unsuitable, then assessing the relative qualifications of the suitable applicants. Let's say an agency receives 300 applications for a posted position, of whom 30 might be appropriate. Assuming initial sorting takes 30 seconds per applicant, that's an hour and a half consumed that isn't devoted to making money. Ranking the remaining candidates for suitability on future projects might take another few hours. That's a half-day's work right there. In cases like this, the agency will most likely choose the first good candidate they see, keep the some of remaining 29 CVs on file and delete the rest. Do the math: 299 rejection letters would have to be sent. It's not economically feasible for a small agency to reply to all applicants.

A few decades ago I wrote articles and fiction which I sent to various journals and publishers. Sometimes I'd get a standard rejection slip, sometimes no response at all. Sometimes the rejection would contain a nice note indicating that the editor had actually read the piece and provided a useful critique, or a comment that there was already a backlog and no new fiction was being accepted. Occasionally I'd get a really nasty rejection. The net effect was the same, and after a while I quit taking it personally.

My point is that there isn't much feedback to be expected in the words-for-money business unless you land a client. And the best feedback is getting another job from that client.
[As a side note, I did have a number of stories and articles published].


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Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 10:51
English to Polish
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Thank you, Rossana Aug 9, 2013

Thanks for the perspective, Rossana, and if I'm taking a sentence or two only, myself, it's not because I don't value your contribution. I wish I could have such perspective from the other side more often.

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564354352  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 10:51
Danish to English
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More thanks to Rossana Aug 10, 2013

Very helpful, thanks for taking the time to give us your perspective.

I am curious, though, as to why you thought it would be a good idea to send a translation proposal to 3,000 translators? I guess you learnt from the experience to be more selective, but until recently, I have foolishly presumed that if a client (agency) contacted me directly via ProZ, it was because they wanted to negotiate collaboration with me, but now I understand that those 'contact emails' can be sent to loads of people in one click.

Earlier this week, I received a message from a large agency with branches in a number of countries, which stated that they had looked carefully at my ProZ profile and were interested in starting collaboration, and would I sign up via their website, please. Foolishly, I see now, I went through this process (something I normally can't be bothered to do), and then got a very quick reply saying that my rates were far too high, and would I like to revise them on my registration form? Well, my rates are stated very clearly, not just once, but twice on my ProZ profile, so I was a bit miffed, to say the least. When I wrote back and mentioned this, I got a series of increasingly nasty replies from the president (yes!) of the agency, starting with "This message was sent to 3000 translators, and we didn't look at your specific profile", and ending with "Are you very frustrated in your life [sic] as you need to argue like this?"

I don't understand why agencies would take such an approach. Why not make the slight effort of selecting, say 10 translators based on their specialisations and profiles and not bother the other 2,990 translators that they don't really want to have anything to do with, anyway?


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Elina Sellgren  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:51
Member (2013)
Finnish to English
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Thanks Rossana Aug 10, 2013

Rossana Triaca wrote:


4) Since you are competing for attention among a long scrolling list of candidates, short and to the point bids are always better. Forget useless salutations ("Dear Sir/Madam" - I even got a very non-PC "Dear Sirs" and one "Ladies and Gentlemen:"), as well as long-winded introductions (I am writing in connection...) for bids; it's an automated system, I know which project you're talking about, and a generic salutation tells me you don't even know my name (if you don't have a contact name, simply skip the salutation). The format is not that of a letter, you get a header with the translator basics (with check marks next to each requirement they fulfill), the title of your bid and then the quote text itself.

You can always provide plenty of details in your CV or profile, there's no need to go over everything in the bid; this should be just an explanation of why you are right for the job, and it should definitely include rates (I flat out discarded bids without rates; I didn't have the time to engage in yet another exchange just to find out if you're below/over my budget).



Thanks Rossana, very interesting and helpful - especially this part about what the quote will look like to the client! I have been wondering about it for a while, it's really good to know that you don't have to include all the information you would in an email, for instance.

Personally I never feel offended if I don't get a reply. I have worked as a project coordinator so I know just how much time and bother it is to reply to even 10 people, and it's also very easy to forget to do that. And if you remember them after 2 weeks, they have probably gotten the idea already.. And I can't imagine what it's like on a board like this!

It's also nice to know that since I tend to get replies quite often, I must be doing something right regarding the impression that I give of myself. On the other hand, some job posters only require a certain rate and nothing else matters..


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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You can't see the number beforehand Aug 10, 2013

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
I am curious, though, as to why you thought it would be a good idea to send a translation proposal to 3,000 translators?


Well, if the jobs form works the same as the KudoZ form, then you can't see the number of translators beforehand: You select your criteria, and then ProZ.com tells you to how many translators your request have been sent, based on your criteria.

It is very annoying not to be able to see this information beforehand (because something you see only afterwards that your pool is too big or to small). I posted some jobs in the past, and I can't remember whether I had a choice to "go back" and change the selection criteria, however.


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Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
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You can from the directory Aug 10, 2013

It is very annoying not to be able to see this information beforehand (because something you see only afterwards that your pool is too big or to small). I posted some jobs in the past, and I can't remember whether I had a choice to "go back" and change the selection criteria, however.

I have foolishly presumed that if a client (agency) contacted me directly via ProZ, it was because they wanted to negotiate collaboration with me, but now I understand that those 'contact emails' can be sent to loads of people in one click.

After entering the desired search criteria in the Translators and Interpenetrates directory search form, you are given the number of entries matching that search criteria and the option to mass email all of them. I don't know if the job posting form works the same though.

Personally I don't understand why professionals bother with the bidding platform. It sends all the wrong messages about our profession. While this discussion is an interesting read and thank you everyone for sharing your experiences, it only goes to highlight how the direct shortcomings of the bidding platform (usually) outweigh its limited benefit, not to mention the indirect long-term damage it causes to the profile of our profession.

Translators may talk proudly about rates in public but a lot are willing to go really low in private.

There are professional translators and there are less than professional translators. Because the registration to ProZ is open to virtually just about anyone, true professionals, inexperienced translators, amateurs, those just trying to make a quick buck, and even frauds are all living together side-by-side and are represented very much in the same way in ProZ's universe.
While from my experience your above statement is generally true (a lot of people like to digitally vent and/or take a firm stand when they discuss such topics among colleagues, but when it comes to taking a real action they cave in or simply do the opposite from what they told they would do), and with risking generalization, I suspect that those replying to Bids are more likely to be positioned somewhere towards the less than professional side of the scale, whether due to lack of experience or otherwise, so I wouldn't necessarily consider the bidding platform crowd (from both sides of the equation) to be representative (although some stakeholders wish it was).


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Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:51
Member (2012)
Italian to English
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Vezna, Rosana, the other participants Aug 10, 2013

Thank you very much for your contributions. I am glad Vezna started the topic but am also grateful to Rossana for making us see the other side of the coin. What I noticed from jobs posted and which I do not like is that some outsourcers repeatedly-always the same- post "potential" jobs. Seeing they come from the same outsourcers, as I kept track, makes me suspicious. I also noticed that a few- it was also mentioned here on Proz. forums- have their profile "under construction"-to date this outsourcer still keeps it like that, or you het that a certain person has been a member for quite a few years and this is the first job that person posted-less suspicious, but I sometimes wonder if there are ulterior reasons for posting jobs, maybe to get a free tranlsation, especially when there is a text that has to be translated. I have been accepted for jobs posted, so I am not being negative, and one outsourcer even went as far as providing feedback for a translation test, which I appreciated a lot, and helped me improve too. At least I learnt how to quote in the first place, but there are only a few like this. I have decided that, despite the competition, I will NOT go beneath a certain rate. I recently refused pleas from someone to translate a whole book because the rate was a pittance. It was a painful decision, as I really wanted to translate that book, but could not sacrifice my principles or the dignity of the profession. The client who had contacted me in the first place, argued I would not have to bid for jobs, but I prefer bidding then accept certain despicable rates-and the royalties/bonus was only 1% after the sale of 10,000 copies.
At the same time, I am surprised to note that some very good translators have abysimal rates on their profile pages.
Thank you all


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