| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Refusing to translate some words in the middle of a project. Thread poster: Aditya Ikhsan Prasiddha
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Neil Coffey 
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:04
French to English
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| Think you can make the "not relevant" argument | May 5, 2014 |
Aditya Ikhsan Prasiddha wrote:
The categories are pornography (with all the dirty words you can imagine) and gambling.
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Edit: the client stated that I can ignore categories that are not relevant to my countries.
If they're genuinely *illegal* in your country, then I think you could make the argument that the translation of them is "not relevant" for the client's purposes.
[Edited at 2014-05-05 13:20 GMT]
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 22:04
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Refuse, but don't charge | May 5, 2014 |
If you have agreed to deliver and can't, you can't charge.
If you come across content that is against your religion and moral values, you can't deliver.
How much are your beliefs and values worth to you? It's happened to me, and I told the client I couldn't deliver and I didn't charge for the job. They accepted and understood.
| | | | | Oh, no you couldn't refer the client , Ty. | May 5, 2014 |
Ty Kendall wrote: LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Just tell the client that this kind of stuff is against your worldview, and you were not notified about some graphic content of the translation beforehand. Just translate everything else and bill him only for the part translated. Let him find some other translator to translate those two specific parts, if he or she wishes to. Don't get involved in finding anybody else for him. If he does not want to pay you-- put him on the Blue Board or sue him. Why so recalcitrant when it is the translator reneging on an agreement? (i.e. the least you could do is refer the client to a less-sensitive colleague or point them in the right direction [and I'm not sure the translator has a leg to stand on legally-speaking to start getting all litigious). Not that I agree with shirking the responsibility here. Clients should not be penalized because they don't agree with your "worldview". I agree with Sheila here: "But you would need to take overall responsibility for the job you've accepted." [Edited at 2014-05-05 06:09 GMT]
That would count as aiding in the illegal activity, or promoting something which you don't support. I wouldn't translate many types of texts, either. After alll, your integrity and beliefs (not necessarily religious) are superior to any professional responsibilities. In court, you have to translate or interpret everything, but then the purpose is uncovering the truth, not promoting any materials you are against. This is my view, at least.
[Edited at 2014-05-05 22:15 GMT]
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 04:04
French to English
+ ...
| Sort this out before continuing | May 5, 2014 |
I agree absolutely with Lilian. I think it's a matter of ethics, not just religion and law and there are plenty of athiests in countries where it is not illegal who would have the same reluctance as you do to translate that stuff because they would identify it as socially harmful. One generally can't read through a text in detail before accepting it. The client did have a duty to draw your attention to that part of the translation before you accepted the job. They know that stuff would be offens... See more I agree absolutely with Lilian. I think it's a matter of ethics, not just religion and law and there are plenty of athiests in countries where it is not illegal who would have the same reluctance as you do to translate that stuff because they would identify it as socially harmful. One generally can't read through a text in detail before accepting it. The client did have a duty to draw your attention to that part of the translation before you accepted the job. They know that stuff would be offensive to many people and should not have put you into the position of having to read it, never mind translate it. I also think it would be wrong for you to help the client find a translator for the stuff you find offensive.
You should get paid for the work you have done, but be pepared for the fact that you might not be paid. Invoice it all the same. So, I suggest you do no further work on the non-offensive sections of the job until this is sorted out with the client. I think that Ty and Sheila are wrong and that there are higher principles involved here than the ones they are arguing for.
Please do let us know the outcome. ▲ Collapse
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| How ethical can you get? | May 5, 2014 |
B D Finch wrote:
I think it's a matter of ethics...
You should get paid for the work you have done
How ethical is it to contribute more than 98% of a translation to an organisation you know is doing business which according to you is highly unethical, and demand to get paid for it?
Now if you are ethical, go all the way! This is like giving someone a loaded gun, show her how it works, and then tell her that you wouldn't use it because that's against your ethics, but...
Cheers,
Hans
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So many great responses here, really helpful. But in particular I'd like to response to the above comment from Pak Hans. It's not like the company provides the illegal content, is it? FYI, it's a company that offers web crawling services for advertisers. If I wanted go ethical "all the way", I should stop working for agencies altogether since they surely deal with gambling or adult content at one time or another
[Edited at ... See more So many great responses here, really helpful. But in particular I'd like to response to the above comment from Pak Hans. It's not like the company provides the illegal content, is it? FYI, it's a company that offers web crawling services for advertisers. If I wanted go ethical "all the way", I should stop working for agencies altogether since they surely deal with gambling or adult content at one time or another
[Edited at 2014-05-06 02:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 02:20 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 02:21 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 04:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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What if you got the same file for translation, containing thousands of keywords in various categories, including gambling and pornography, but without any information on how it is going to be used?
Would you be still concerned and refuse translating those categories?
Would you assume that this is for advertisements or for delivering content in those categories?
What if the text is to be used for developing intelligent content filters where the users (parents, school admi... See more What if you got the same file for translation, containing thousands of keywords in various categories, including gambling and pornography, but without any information on how it is going to be used?
Would you be still concerned and refuse translating those categories?
Would you assume that this is for advertisements or for delivering content in those categories?
What if the text is to be used for developing intelligent content filters where the users (parents, school administrators, company IT managers, government agencies, religious communities, etc.) can restrict the content that could be accessed by their systems?
What if this list is for a project for law enforcement to find illegal activities on the internet?
Would that change your thinking? ▲ Collapse
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Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
What if you got the same file for translation, containing thousands of keywords in various categories, including gambling and pornography, but without any information on how it is going to be used?
Would you be still concerned and refuse translating those categories?
Would you assume that this is for advertisements or for delivering content in those categories?
What if the text is to be used for developing intelligent content filters where the users (parents, school administrators, company IT managers, government agencies, religious communities, etc.) can restrict the content that could be accessed by their systems?
What if this list is for a project for law enforcement to find illegal activities on the internet?
Would that change your thinking?
Without any information I would probably ask the client first. If it's to be used for positive purpose like filtering or law enforcement then I don't see any reason to pass, in fact I'd be happy to do it.
[Edited at 2014-05-06 03:55 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 03:56 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 03:57 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 03:58 GMT]
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Aditya Ikhsan Prasiddha wrote:
in fact I'd be glad to do it.
[Edited at 2014-05-06 03:55 GMT]
So you do know these words, and you even know how to translate them?
Salam,
Si Han
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 19:04
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Exactly my thoughts. | May 6, 2014 |
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
What if the text is to be used for developing intelligent content filters where the users (parents, school administrators, company IT managers, government agencies, religious communities, etc.) can restrict the content that could be accessed by their systems?
What if this list is for a project for law enforcement to find illegal activities on the internet?
Would that change your thinking?
An anecdote:
I recall a KudoZ question of mine that caused quite an uproar and got me bombarded with private messages from fellow Prozians. My job was to translate a purely fictitious example of how a phishing email would read. This was part of a training course in internet safety, yet colleagues were concerned that I would abide in internet fraud by providing a well written sample that might actually sound convincing. Hm...
| | | | | We're adults after all. | May 6, 2014 |
Meta Arkadia wrote: Aditya Ikhsan Prasiddha wrote:
in fact I'd be glad to do it.
[Edited at 2014-05-06 03:55 GMT] So you do know these words, and you even know how to translate them? Salam, Si Han
We're adults aren't we? Anyway, I don't know how your question is relevant but I assume it's with tongue in cheek
| | | | | But they not obliged to tell you, or tell you the truth | May 6, 2014 |
Aditya Ikhsan Prasiddha wrote: Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
What if the text is to be used for developing intelligent content filters where the users (parents, school administrators, company IT managers, government agencies, religious communities, etc.) can restrict the content that could be accessed by their systems?
What if this list is for a project for law enforcement to find illegal activities on the internet?
Would that change your thinking?
Without any information I would probably ask the client first.
And what if they say "none of your business"?
After all, the purpose is irrelevant to the translation of those keywords, so a translator doesn't need to know how they are going to use those category lists. You may very well be at the end of a longer chain, where the agencies between you and the end client are not informed about the details, and wouldn't be able to give you that info. Or they may just give you their best guess (which may be totally wrong). The purpose may even be confidential info, if it relates to a new product or service.
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If that's the case I'm not sure, as it would need some extra thinking and I'd have to discuss it with people. Would you accept the job?
[Edited at 2014-05-06 05:50 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-06 05:51 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:04
Hebrew to English
Meta Arkadia wrote: B D Finch wrote:
I think it's a matter of ethics...
You should get paid for the work you have done How ethical is it to contribute more than 98% of a translation to an organisation you know is doing business which according to you is highly unethical, and demand to get paid for it? Now if you are ethical, go all the way! This is like giving someone a loaded gun, show her how it works, and then tell her that you wouldn't use it because that's against your ethics, but... Cheers, Hans
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:04
Hebrew to English
| Problem sorted | May 6, 2014 |
Aditya Ikhsan Prasiddha wrote:
Edit: the client stated that I can ignore categories that are not relevant to my countries. Not that these two categories are irrelevant, but at least ignoring categories is possible.
And if these categories are really that important to your client to be translated...well, where there's a will there's a way.
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