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TM-Town link at top of Proz kudoz-based ranking searches
Thread poster: Jo Macdonald

Jo Macdonald  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:28
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Jul 5, 2016

Imo Kudoz-based ranking searches should be kept separate from TM-Town.

If you search for a translator here on Proz, after you get the results for a certain language combination or specialisation, a box is shown in the top left corner above the search results.

It says
“New Search Option: Get matched to the best experts for your job with Nakōdo”
It's a hyperlink that opens the Nakodo search engine on TM-Town.

I am quite high up in the kudoz-based rankings for one of my language pairs in certain fields but I don't think that is the case on TM-Town where I presume other TM-Town members may have uploaded more data than me but perhaps not answered even one pertinent question in that field.

Also, in the search results there are quite a few paying Proz members who as far as I know are not on TM town so that link is imo encouraging potential clients who found them here where they have contributed a lot to kudoz with time-consuming and knowledgeable answers, and by paying for membership, to go look for another translator on TM town who perhaps is not so knowledgeable, has not paid for Proz membership or contributed anything to kudoz.
See for example: http://www.proz.com/italian-to-english-translators/Tech_Engineering or search in the Translators' menu for your language combination or field.

Kudoz-based rankings work, a client can almost be guaranteed they will get a top professional in a certain field if that Pro has a good kudoz ranking.

I would prefer to see the two systems kept separate rather than encouraging clients who are searching for a Pro on Proz to use Nakodo/TM-Town to find someone else.

I really think Kudoz-based ranking searches should be kept separate from TM-Town.

Henry, would you consider removing that Nakodo link from the Proz "Translators" search page?


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 11:28
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Completely agree Jul 5, 2016

Don't fix what ain't broken.

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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:28
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I agree with Jo Jul 5, 2016

I agree with Jo- what he describes is unacceptable. What am I paying for if potential clients are being directed away from me not on the basis of the quality of my work, but on the basis of how much stuff others have uploaded, whether they are good or not? This undermines the whole purpose of Proz and turns it into something else that works in a completely different way. I think this marriage of Proz and TM Town was a mistake.

[Edited at 2016-07-05 17:39 GMT]


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Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:28
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
Please repost this with a picture of what your see Jul 5, 2016

Jo Macdonald wrote:

Imo Kudoz-based ranking searches should be kept separate from TM-Town.

If you search for a translator here on Proz, after you get the results for a certain language combination or specialisation, a box is shown in the top left corner above the search results.

It says
“New Search Option: Get matched to the best experts for your job with Nakōdo”
It's a hyperlink that opens the Nakodo search engine on TM-Town.

I am quite high up in the kudoz-based rankings for one of my language pairs in certain fields but I don't think that is the case on TM-Town where I presume other TM-Town members may have uploaded more data than me but perhaps not answered even one pertinent question in that field.

Also, in the search results there are quite a few paying Proz members who as far as I know are not on TM town so that link is imo encouraging potential clients who found them here where they have contributed a lot to kudoz with time-consuming and knowledgeable answers, and by paying for membership, to go look for another translator on TM town who perhaps is not so knowledgeable, has not paid for Proz membership or contributed anything to kudoz.
See for example: http://www.proz.com/italian-to-english-translators/Tech_Engineering or search in the Translators' menu for your language combination or field.

Kudoz-based rankings work, a client can almost be guaranteed they will get a top professional in a certain field if that Pro has a good kudoz ranking.

I would prefer to see the two systems kept separate rather than encouraging clients who are searching for a Pro on Proz to use Nakodo/TM-Town to find someone else.

I really think Kudoz-based ranking searches should be kept separate from TM-Town.

Henry, would you consider removing that Nakodo link from the Proz "Translators" search page?


Please repost this with a picture of what you see.

Cheers,
Gerard


[Edited at 2016-07-05 19:36 GMT]


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Agree, too Jul 5, 2016

I have been a paying member ever since 2004, sometimes renewed despite many doubts, and registered since 2001.

This is really inacceptable in my opinion!

I think I won't renew this time. I'm not registered with TM-Town and would like it to be kept separate from ProZ, anyway, I don't want to have to be involved with them for the time being for whatever reasons.

Thank you very much, Jo, for having brought up this issue!

[Bearbeitet am 2016-07-05 21:13 GMT]


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Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:28
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
My fears exactly Jul 5, 2016

As I stated in another forum, my fear is that Proz is going to loose its credibility as a platform for PROFESSIONAL translators, especially after reading this thread. This is not a wise move. When everybody is walking away, what will be left?

[Edited at 2016-07-05 22:08 GMT]


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:28
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Agree Jul 5, 2016

I agree with both Jo and Tom.

This looks very much like what had been reported here: http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/303212-two_objections_regarding_tm_town_related_advertising.html

In that case the link to TM-Town was eventually removed.

Also, while I can perfectly understand that ProZ is trying to hard sell the new service they acquired, to make it profitable, this shouldn't negatively impact on ProZ users... at least not directly, as is the case here (while the indirect impact is basically unavoidable)

@Gerard - Although not directed at me, here's what I see:



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Doan Quang  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:28
Member
English to Vietnamese
Fully agree with Tom and Jo Jul 6, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

I agree with Jo- what he describes is unacceptable. What am I paying for if potential clients are being directed away from me not on the basis of the quality of my work, but on the basis of how much stuff others have uploaded, whether they are good or not? This undermines the whole purpose of Proz and turns it into something else that works in a completely different way. I think this marriage of Proz and TM Town was a mistake.

[Edited at 2016-07-05 17:39 GMT]


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János Untener  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 10:28
Member (2010)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Unacceptable Jul 6, 2016

I completely agree with the above comments.
Why do I pay for membership if you actively direct away the potential clients?

Among the benefits you advertise is “exclusive access to translation clients via the directory,”
and that “members appear in the first set of results shown to clients in the directory” where according to your claim most of the jobs are realized (and not through the posted jobs). ProZ has no benefit to me if you work against me.

I guess now you want me to cash out $5-15 / month (TM-Town membership) to keep pace with the market demand.

BTW this is not the only place where potential clients are directed away:

Image

[Edited at 2016-07-06 06:17 GMT]


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ahartje
Portugal
Local time: 09:28
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Agree Jul 6, 2016

Thank you Jo, for bringing this to my attention.

It´s unbelievable!


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:28
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Indeed. Jul 6, 2016

János Untener wrote:

......ProZ has no benefit to me if you work against me.



Inviting prospective clients to go to TM Town, instead of exploring Proz, seems like the equivalent of me putting a brass plate outside my door that says

"Tom in London
Translator
But don't ring my bell
Go down the street to TM Town
It's cheaper and faster"

The marriage of Proz with TM Town is a move towards the full computerisation of the whole process of helping a prospective client to find a good translator, without the exercise of discretion and human judgment, rather like those dating agencies that try to use an algorhythm to match people based on their tastes and predilections.

The TMTown concept relies on on only one algorhythm and one criterion (TMs) which in a great many cases will not help a prospective client to find exactly the translator they seek.

I'm sure that when the more discerning type of client tries to use TM-Town they will quickly realise that what they are being offered is not what they are looking for.

TM-Town benefits from all the high-value features of Proz, such as these discussion forums, the Blue Board etc, but the "translator search" feature is beginning to look like an optional extra.

In the business agreement between Proz and TM-Town, I hope there is a withdrawal clause.


[Edited at 2016-07-06 08:37 GMT]


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Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:28
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
Other TM-Town members may have uploaded more data, right, ... Jul 6, 2016

Jo Macdonald wrote:

I am quite high up in the kudoz-based rankings for one of my language pairs in certain fields but I don't think that is the case on TM-Town where I presume other TM-Town members may have uploaded more data than me but perhaps not answered even one pertinent question in that field.


... which perhaps were generated from you (and others), too, considering the fact that many outsourcers tend to send huge TMs loaded with segments not only combined with the job in question. Many of these TMs in return now will hover in the TM Town cloud for other (cheaper?) people´s benefit.

[Edited at 2016-07-06 07:19 GMT]


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Jo Macdonald  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:28
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Link for Gerard Jul 6, 2016

Gerard de Noord wrote:


Please repost this with a picture of what you see.

Cheers,
Gerard


[Edited at 2016-07-05 19:36 GMT]


Hi Gerard,
If I'm a potential client searching for a German to Dutch translator for example and click on the "Jobs & Directories" then "Translators & Interpreters" menus, I get
this page of results showing the top ranking kudoz contributors who are paying Proz members.


At the top of this search results page is the link to the TM-Town Nakodo search engine in the pic Mirko posted where I can search for other translators on Tm-Town.


You can also search for a Proz translator from the homepage http://www.proz.com/
So if I’m a potential client looking for a Spanish to English translator I get the results on this page of Spanish to English pro members, again with the "Get matched to the best experts for your job with Nakōdo" link appearing above the list of Proz translators, which takes me to the Tm-Town Nakodo search engine.




[Edited at 2016-07-06 14:14 GMT]


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Ramey Rieger  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:28
Member (2010)
German to English
Get organized? Jul 6, 2016

EITHER all paying Proz members are exported to TM Town free of charge, maintaining their status (I rank no. 1 in several kudoz fields in my language pair) and/or ranking OR we simply leave Proz altogether. I don't see that we have much choice. But to be fair, we should inform Henry of our complaints and give him a chance to respond (correctly). This looks to me like yet ANOTHER case of money over humankind....

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Elizabeth Faracini  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:28
Member (2010)
Italian to English
+ ...
Agree Jul 6, 2016

I agree with the sentiments expressed on this thread, and hope this problem gets resolved soon.

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