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ProZ Pay™: A new way for freelancers to get paid
Thread poster: Mike Donlin

Mike Donlin
Local time: 15:53
SITE STAFF
Sep 21

If you have recently completed a project for a client or have an outstanding invoice, you can ask that your client use a new service at ProZ.com.

ProZ Pay™ has been released to help make it easier for clients to pay freelancers.

For freelancers, it is an easy and secure way to get paid, the way you want to get paid. There is also an additional benefit in being able to show prospective clients online that you are a real person who has been paid by previous clients.

Advantages of ProZ Pay™:

  • Keep more of your earnings (ProZ Pay beats PayPal fees in various countries when you choose bank transfer as the payout method), and potentially get paid earlier
  • Show you are payable (by ProZ Pay) to prospective clients
  • Less paperwork - enter payment and tax information once
  • Get paid your way (PayPal and bank transfer available)
  • Share your own personal payment link and include it in your invoices (integrated with ProZ.com invoicing for freelancers)
Find out more about how ProZ Pay™ works »

Mike

FAQ (editing from this forum)

Does it piggyback on someone else's payments system?
Yes. It uses partners to integrate best payment solutions to ProZ.com.

Is ProZ.com a licensed bank now?
No, ProZ.com is working with partners to provide this service.

Do agencies tend to be the ones who decide what payment methods can be used?
Yes, this payment platform has been made with agencies in mind. Sometimes LSPs have payment practices that do not work for all freelancers, or are not in the freelancer's best interests. This may provide the choice for freelancers while the LSP may pay in the way that works best for them.

Do freelancers pay additional fees to ProZ.com for this service?
The goal is to offer a service that is more convenient for the payer and enables freelancers to keep more of their money when compared to other solutions. There are fees on banking. If the LSP agrees to pay fees, then there is no additional fee to the freelancer.

Are payment advances available?
Payment may be available ahead of the due date. Certain restrictions and fees will apply.

Can Transferwise be added as a solution?
It is being worked on as an option. Those who would like to receive payments from Transferwise may contact ProZ.com directly. (You can message me)

Are there escrow options?
Escrow is is not built into the platform yet, but we have had some inquiries about this and would like to help.

Who will be stated as payer in the bank account papers?
You will receive the money from ProZ.com on your bank statement.


Ioanna Tarpinidou
Iryna Khramchenko
Morano El-Kholy
 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I suggested this Sep 22

I've been suggesting this for a long time. Thanks for implementing it. I even suggested the name.

[Edited at 2018-09-22 06:56 GMT]


Henry Dotterer
Thomas T. Frost
Sasha Terehov
Mike Donlin
Angie Garbarino
Ana Brause
Iryna Khramchenko
 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:53
SITE FOUNDER
You sure did Sep 22

Found it here: https://www.proz.com/post/1234733#1234733

(then I saw this one... https://www.proz.com/post/1234757#1234757 ... wondering how that could workicon_smile.gif )


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Still wondering Sep 22

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Found it here: https://www.proz.com/post/1234733#1234733

(then I saw this one... https://www.proz.com/post/1234757#1234757 ... wondering how that could workicon_smile.gif )



Still wondering how it works - I mean technically. Does it piggyback on someone else's payments system? I mean, setting the whole thing up from scratch would be an immense undertaking.


Thomas T. Frost
 

Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 21:53
Member (2016)
English to German
Does Proz have a banking license? Sep 22

Is Proz a licensed bank now or how does this work? Some background info would be important.

Anyway, this service will only make sense if the agencies adopt it. When you are working for agencies, they tend to be the ones who decide what payment methods can be used.


dkfmmuc
 

Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:53
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
Buyer beware! Sep 22

From what I can understand from the poorly written instructions, this is aimed at LSPs, not freelancers. It does NOT reduce fees for freelancers, but rather increases them, since they have to pay a fee to Proz for the service.

From your list:

* "ProZ Pay beats PayPal fees in various countries when you choose bank transfer as the payout method" - This has nothing to do with Proz Pay. Bank transfer is almost always cheaper for me, the recipient, since PayPal fees are very high (4.78% for most of my clients), whereas my bank charges me nothing for a bank transfer.
* "Show you are payable to prospective clients." Say what??? I have never met a company or individual who was not "payable," i.e., was unable or unwilling to receive payment!
* "Get paid your way (PayPal and bank transfer available)" - This has nothing to do with Proz. Freelancers get paid the way an LSP agrees to pay them. Transferwise.com is by far the cheapest, in my experience, but it is not available everywhere and most LSPs are not aware of it and are not set up to use it. You are not offering it.

From the instructions page, https://go.proz.com/proz-pay-lsp :
* Freelancers ("recipients") have to pay $10 for a bank transfer, IN ADDITION to what banks charge!
* Freelancers have to pay $1.00 for PayPal IN ADDITION to the fee charged by PayPal.
* Then there is this gem: "When fees are paid by the outsourcer, a service fee of 5% (or 3%, for Business Plus and Enterprise subscribers) is added to the invoice to cover fees for making payments." This fee is presumably paid by the freelancer, since that is the only "invoice" in play. What a deal!

(Note: "Set up" is the verb form in English, as in "set up your account," not "setup," which is a noun. Proz needs a proofreader!)

[Edited at 2018-09-22 11:49 GMT]


Tom in London
missdutch
Andy Watkinson
Sasha Terehov
123Translations
Barbara Carrara
Yvonne Gallagher
 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Maybe so Sep 22

Susan Welsh wrote:

..."Set up" is the verb form in English, as in "set up your account," not "setup," which is a noun. Proz needs a proofreader!


Yes, Susan, but based on the information you have given above, about the costs, maybe it really is a setup.

icon_smile.gif


missdutch
Thomas T. Frost
Robin Levey
 

Mike Donlin
Local time: 15:53
SITE STAFF
TOPIC STARTER
Banking fees Sep 22

Hi Susan,

Saturday morning in New York, so I will not cover everything.

To clarify on the instructions that you have reviewed - those are meant to show the typical bank fees. It is not a charge in addition to the bank. I think those who are wiring money across borders would agree that $10 USD is a better rate than most banks or similar services charge.

Thank you for the note on "setup" it has been adjusted on the page you referenced.

Mike


Susan Welsh wrote:

From the instructions page, https://go.proz.com/proz-pay-lsp :
* Freelancers ("recipients") have to pay $10 for a bank transfer, IN ADDITION to what banks charge!
* Freelancers have to pay $1.00 for PayPal IN ADDITION to the fee charged by PayPal.
* Then there is this gem: "When fees are paid by the outsourcer, a service fee of 5% (or 3%, for Business Plus and Enterprise subscribers) is added to the invoice to cover fees for making payments." This fee is presumably paid by the freelancer, since that is the only "invoice" in play. What a deal!

(Note: "Set up" is the verb form in English, as in "set up your account," not "setup," which is a noun. Proz needs a proofreader!)

[Edited at 2018-09-22 11:49 GMT]


Sasha Terehov
 

Joel Pina Diaz  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 17:53
English to Spanish
+ ...
Business not freelance business Sep 22

5% charge is above any financial instrument in the market. If I receive a Paypal payment there is a % discounted out of such payment, then Proz will charge 5%? If that payment goes to Payoneer this lemon company will charge me a piece as well... So... What exactly is the advantage of this service? Payoneer does not accept payments directly from freelancers, in a way if I use Proz the payment will go without any problem, that's an advantage. Skrill and Neteller are out of the game? When Proz will commit and decide to issue (associating) with Payoneer a plastic card so payments will enter "directly" (I will do not mind to pay a fee to Proz for this service). How I can add another bank in dollars not in Argentinian pesos in my case? So many questions and few answers in the site... Someone can clarify before I pay the business membership...

Luz Miranda-Valencia
 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 21:53
Member
English to Italian
It depends... Sep 22

Mike Donlin wrote:

To clarify on the instructions that you have reviewed - those are meant to show the typical bank fees. It is not a charge in addition to the bank. I think those who are wiring money across borders would agree that $10 USD is a better rate than most banks or similar services charge.


The first thing that struck me as odd is that the info page reserved to "professionals" (us) is basically empty compared to the one reserved to clients, which is rather baffling, as you're asking the vast majority of people who would be using that service to set up a payment profile without giving any detail about the specifics of the service they're subscribing to...

That said, based on the "LSP" page, $4/€3 to receive a wire transfer in the SEPA zone is not bad (IF the client itself is outside the SEPA zone), although there is a 2% currency conversion fee over mid-market rates on top of that, while I don't understand why someone would want to pay/be paid via PayPal through proz instead of just using PP directly... Conversely, 3/5% (are conversion fees included?) in case fees are borne by clients seems kind of steep, thing which will probably encourage some of them to use a different payment or ask service providers to bear those fees themselves (with or without adding the corresponding fees to the invoice amount).

At any rate, following up on what Susan was saying, why aren't you using Transferwise? Charge a fee for "facilitating" the transaction (in case both parties are not willing to use the service, for whatever reason), but let us truly "keep more of our earnings", as per mission statement...

As far as I'm concerned, being based in the EU, clients within the SEPA zone are not an issue, as wires cost is basically non existent (unlike in the US), so the main issue is getting paid by non-EU clients who don't use Transferwise (i.e. the optimal solution in that scenario). As anecdotal evidence, I can say I had one Canadian client (before it was swallowed whole by a super-duper-multinational-agency :-/ ) who paid me via a US payment service provider that used an EU bank branch, at zero cost for me, and at mid-market conversion rates... So that's possible, without too many complications IF the outsourcer/client actually cares...

The information provided to us so far seems too limited and too fragmentary (and I would have expected otherwise on launch) to get a clear picture of the whole thing and draw a conclusion, but once again, IMHO Trasferwise support (or something else along those lines) would actually be the most translator-friendly solution at present...


Luz Miranda-Valencia
 

Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 21:53
Member
Italian to English
What's next? Sep 22

Proz Pantry? That would make sure translators are fed, which is always a positive thing.

Susan Welsh
Katalin Szilárd
writeaway
Robert Forstag
Mirko Mainardi
Germaine
Sarah Lewis-Morgan
 

Germaine  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:53
English to French
+ ...
Indeed... Sep 22

Susan Welsh wrote:
From what I can understand (...) It does NOT reduce fees for freelancers, but rather increases them, since they have to pay a fee to Proz for the service.


Everybody knows that there is no such thing as free banking. Besides the fact that translators will have to pay to get their money from Proz Pay (and even more if they ask Paypal to get in the way!), how will they have to deal with LPS who already are using every tricks of the trade to pay their translators as little as possible? How can Proz Pay claim to be cheaper, while its business volume certainly won't compare to Paypal's or others competitors'? What about the exchange rates and fees? Most important, how can Proz Pay offer the security features and warranties its competitors are offering? What exactly is the license authorizing it to offer the service?

Susan Welsh wrote:
Transferwise.com is by far the cheapest, in my experience (....)


! agree 100%! And they are very efficient as well. They even cancelled their full fee for having to delay a transfer by one day (actually, 12 hours!) after some technical glitch. That's what we call "Être d'affaires!"


ph-b
 

Germaine  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:53
English to French
+ ...
Are you serious? Sep 22

"Show you are payable to prospective clients."

Amongst all the empty/trivial marketing statements on the site, this certainly is the Gold medal winner! if not even a Guinness World Records contender!


Ivana UK
writeaway
Fiona Grace Peterson
Thomas T. Frost
Christel Zipfel
Dmytro Nehrii
Andy Watkinson
 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Wondering Sep 23

Germaine wrote:

"Show you are payable to prospective clients."

Amongst all the empty/trivial marketing statements on the site, this certainly is the Gold medal winner! if not even a Guinness World Records contender!


I'm wondering what it means for me to be "payable to prospective clients"

?


Thomas T. Frost
ph-b
Germaine
 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 18:53
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Calculating break even points Sep 23

Like ANY international payment method, every translator should calculate the break even point, to compare options. Such point will vary on; a) currencies involved, and b) fixed and proportional fees (which may vary from country to country).

Of course, you may nitpick on fractional pennies, or merely get the general idea, and avoid wasting time.

For example, my comparison between a wire transfer and PayPal for USD sent from the USA to me in Brazil went like this:

Wire Transfer
Cost to send: $20 ($0 if the sender doesn't charge me; I've seen it as high as $65)
Cost to receive: $30 bank fee (may vary from one bank to another, fluctuates with exchange rate)
Exchange rate: 100%
Time from start to end: usually 1 banking day

PayPal
Cost to send: $0
Cost to receive: 7.5% (the fee they deduct from whatever I receive in Brazil)
Exchange rate: 96.5% (PayPal adopts a 3.5% lower-than-market exchange rate)
Time from start to end: usually 1 banking day (they have improved from 5 days)

The question is simple:
What is the amount making (7.5% + 3.5%) correspond to ($20 + $30)?
Easy calculation: $50 / 0.11 = $454.54

Roughly, if these parameters remain stable, it will be my advantage to get paid amounts under $450 via PayPal, and amounts over $450 via bank transfer. That's the break even point for me in this case.

Let's try it:
Amount paid / Amount received WT | PP
$200 / $150 (WT) | $178 (PP) - PP is 18.6% better
$450 / $400 (WT) | $400 (PP) - no difference at the break even point
$700 / $650 (WT) | $623 (PP) - WT is 4.3% better
$900 / $850 (WT) | $801 (PP) - WT is 6.1% better
and just to make my point, the difference keeps growing:
$3,000 / $2,950 (WT) | $2,670 - WT is 10.5% better

It's just a matter of doing this calculation with Proz Pay and any other payment methods you can use, with your specific parameters.


Ana Maria Bustos K.
Catherine Howard
 
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