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Pay Pal vs other forms of payment transfers
Thread poster: Michael Deliso

Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:14
Italian to English
+ ...
Jun 6, 2007

I might seem naive, but since I have recently joined (so to speak) or rather railroaded in joining the world of Pay Pal, is it fair or feasible or realistic that for a transfer of a payment of Euro 934 and cents Pay Pal charges over 33 Euro? That’s a whopping almost 4%. That’s tantamount to working 4% of one’s own time just to make it easy on getting paid through Pay Pal.
To me it seems rather expensive, considering that getting paid through on-line banking costs a lot, but a lot less, especially for payments within the Euro zone. I confess that being quite uneasy about giving credit cards over Internet, I have only signed-up for the ordinary account. What’s there to do?


[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-06-06 09:04]


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Martin Wenzel
Germany
Local time: 06:14
English to German
+ ...
Very inflexible Jun 6, 2007

I have to add that I found paypal a pain in the .... For weeks on end, I have been trying to get my account unblocked.
They told me, somebody had tried to access my account...

Ok, I prefer them to be careful rather than sorry. But, I am beginning to wonder....

I received a 0180... fax number to supply the documents they still neeeded (which I could not get through from here [Morocco], so I asked them if this was a paid-for fax number...

To my request to supply an alternative number, they did not respond, instead they told me again to use the above number...

What I found very funny (or should I say sad, I am not sure...) was that I received two of these automated response emails within only a couple of days after I had contacted them by email, asking me whether I was pleased with their services...

I am really tempted to close that paypal account once it is unblocked, just because of their inflexibility.


Another thing I need to mention: If there is a problem -- like in my instance they did not have all the documents they needed -- you cannot even close your paypal account.

That is enough to convince me all they are interested in is MONEY and NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:14
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Try Moneybookers Jun 6, 2007

I tried PayPal at one time, but found the same sort of problems that you and Martin have had. I find Moneybookers cheaper, more responsive and easier to use. (I don't think it covers quite as many countries as PayPal though).

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Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:14
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Pay Pal vs other forms of payments tranfers Jun 6, 2007

Hi Jack,
thanks for your comment, but how do I find out the list of countries served by moneybookers? it seems that many clients/agencies are all of sudden being indoctrinated in these systems of payments.


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Same for me Jun 6, 2007

Martin Wenzel wrote:
For weeks on end, I have been trying to get my account unblocked.
-- like in my instance they did not have all the documents they needed --

My PayPal account is blocked since I received more than 5600 EUR and they cannot process my identity documents. Customer support can't help.

So I replaced Paypal by Moneybookers.com or MoneyGram.com in countries where Moneybookers is not available (i.e. the U.S.).
(Michael, you can find their countries lists on their websites.)

Anyway, for amounts from 1000 EUR upwards, a simple wire transfer is usually cheaper, even overseas.

[Edited at 2007-06-06 09:29]


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:14
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Moneybookers Jun 6, 2007

See this page for list of countries & fees.
https://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=fees


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Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:14
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
moneybookers Jun 6, 2007

Well Jack, I'll be....within EU zone is practically free, If I wish to continue to offer this type of payment facilitation to some of my clients, I'd better sign up for this one. Thanks for the info Jack!!!!

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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 01:14
English to Portuguese
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Countries served by Moneybookers & other comments Jun 6, 2007

Michael Deliso wrote:
thanks for your comment, but how do I find out the list of countries served by moneybookers? it seems that many clients/agencies are all of sudden being indoctrinated in these systems of payments.


I live in Brazil, which is one of the few "cursed" countries by PayPal. This means I can't get one cent (of any currency you name) from them without dipping my toes in waters used for laundering money.

So Moneybookers was suggested by a prospective client. I had to phone them (thank goodness SkypeOut makes it a lot cheaper) during business hours in England, and wait for several minutes on hold. A lady with a mild Far-Eastern accent told me so quickly that I'd get a local bank transfer to my account in Brazil, that I'll only believe after I see it done.

Moneygram works quickly and effectively, but the exchange rate is lowered by some 5%. However it seems that translation agencies don't like it (nor Western Union - which seems to be identical, but to a different bank in Brazil) because the sender must be a physical person, an individual, not a company. Another problem is that Moneygram has a low withdrawal limit, something to the tune of US$ 1.5 - 2.5 thousand within any 90-day period.

Ikobo seems an excellent solution. On the first payment I received through it, they FedEx'ed me a Visa debit card and e-mailed a PIN so I could get paid in cash at any Visa PLUS compatible ATM, just 4 minutes after my client had paid me overseas. Ikobo pays the full exchange rate, and fees are minimal. I only found their shortcomings later:
- A receiver can only have three payers at any time. For a fourth to step in, it's necessary to phone them and get one from the previous three ousted.
- The payer is limited to sending US$ 1,000 per month. This limit can be raised, but the sender must send them a lot of documents, as an American client put it, "including DNA samples and certified photocopies of ancestors' boarding tickets to the Mayflower".

So, my first impression is that, at least for Brazil (I couldn't say anything about other countries), the ideal solution would be a bridge to transfer funds from PayPal to Ikobo. Though PayPal's heavy fees would still prevail, someone could get filthy rich by operating this bridge, even at a relatively low toll.

The whole problem seems to be that too many clients offer only two options: a) PayPal, or b) "you can come here and get paid in (our local) cash".


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Juliana Brown  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:14
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
As you can see Jun 6, 2007

in some older threads which deal with this, the limits and charges by Paypal are a constant headache for many of us. As we speak, I am trying to calculate whether it would not be better for me to pay the fees for a bank transfer, for sums over $650, which is the pathetic limit on my basic account. Paypal may seems convenient at first, especially for someone like myself- most of my clients are in Europe or the UK, but I am realizing I may end up returning to my old banking methods for serious work...

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Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:14
Italian to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Pay Pal vs other forms of payment transfers Jun 6, 2007

No small wonders why recently I received a mail from Pay Pal announcing with great fanfares the changes in their organisation status, low and behold they are becoming a bonafide Bank, PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. (PayPal Luxemburg), Sure...with that kind of charges anyone can become a Bank in short times.
I have a strong feeling that based on these charges my relation with them is going to be a short one... I do not have any intention of giving-up 4% of my work time away like this.
With my ordinary account I could not withdraw all the amount, I had to post my credit card (which for me is a rather avoibadle if all possible on Internet).


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Dr. Andrew Frankland  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:14
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Another option perhaps? Jun 6, 2007

I have an online bank account here in Spain (ING Direct) and they don't charge me any commission for receiving payments. It takes a day to then transfer the money to my "normal" bank, again with no commission. I haven't used it for payments from outside the EU, but as far as I know the commission-free status would be the same irrespective of the source of the money.

I've only ever received one payment by PayPal and I used the money to buy Xmas and birthday presents, thereby saving myself both time and money.

Hope this is of some help,

Andy


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Cristina Feletto  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:14
Member (2007)
English to Italian
charge your client Jun 6, 2007

Why don't you charge your client with the 4%? This is what I normally do.

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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 00:14
English to French
+ ...
Ditto Jun 7, 2007

Cristina is right - you should charge such fees to the client. The golden rule is: you should always get in your pocket the total amount of your invoice, and not the total minus transaction fees. Of course, if you want to be in a position to forward such fees to clients, it is best to offer several payment methods.

But really, why don't you charge the 4%?


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Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:14
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Pay Pal vs other forms of payment transfers Jun 7, 2007

Hi Viktoria and Cristina,
I started to use Pay Pal in the last couple of months. Frankly I was not aware of these exorbitant charges, first because I was kind of incited to join by some clients who wished to pay through Pay Pal and on the other because a UK client delinquent for payment kind of forced me into if I wanted to get paid. (the never ending saga of freelancing). So I joined, but as I said was unaware of these charges. I think I will slowly face out of it and probably go with the suggestions by Josè, Jack and Henry and try Moneybookers.
I honestly do not feel or rather do not think I should contact the clients who made large payments to ask them for the additional 4%. But I'll keep that in mind next time around.


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:14
Italian to English
+ ...
Moneybookers Jun 7, 2007

I'm an absolute beginner in this area, as I was asked to provide an alternative payment method by a client for the first time only a month ago (they didn't try to impose what type on me). After checking in here, I decided to go with Moneybookers as it seemed to offer the lowest fees. My client's response was (I quote)

"Oh thanks Marie-Hélène, that's great
Moneybookers is by far the cheapest method, so I'm sure other clients will appreciate it too"

So it seems you shouldn't have too many problems with clients if you do decide to switch to Moneybookers!


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