The paypal rip-off
Thread poster: Martin Wenzel

Martin Wenzel
Germany
Local time: 04:37
English to German
+ ...
Aug 10, 2007

This morning I checked my bank account after having made a couple of minor purchases at ebay. I think it was a total of 4 or 5 seed items from different vendors, total amount about 35 Euro. I did not check carefully last month thinking, oh well this is the total for my items purchased at ebay.

I continued to do shopping at ebay this month again. Surprise, surprise, this month a similar amount appears on my bank account. That's when I became suspicious. Now I find out that this is the amount paypal is charging me for 4 international payments, in other words they charge me the same amount that all my seeds cost together.

What's the point in doing any international shopping at ebay if I have to pay for shipping, plus these outrageous paypal fees. I hate, loathe and detest these money grabbers...


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xxxLatin_Hellas
United States
Local time: 04:37
Italian to English
+ ...
Negotiate directly with a bank Aug 10, 2007

As for translations, the best payment arrangement is to negotiate directly with a bank that has experience in foreign commerce.

This usually works best with a European bank, less well with a US bank, though naturally it helps a lot if you keep a large overall balance and have a certain volume. The same probably goes with banks from other regions.

The fact is that brokers and banks try to rip-off the little guy, there are so many of them to rip-off. Frankly, I do not understand going through a payment broker, they only turn around and go through a bank and chances are that these payment brokers do not have such a volume that they can negotiate such vast discounts with a bank that they can, or are willing, pass onto the little guy, no matter what they say or promise. On the contrary, they are probably deceptive, as you have experienced.

As for ebay and such, I'm not sure if they offer alternatives to payment brokers.

If you have a certain amount of translation-related payment volume with a German bank, for example, it may be worthwhile to inquire if you can handle ebay and such transactions directly through that bank as well, it may appreciate such "cross-selling".

Good luck!


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Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:37
Italian to English
+ ...
The paypal rip-off Aug 10, 2007

Hi Martin,
Where do you think they are getting the money to open-up a bank?
read my post on Pay Pal
http://www.proz.com/topic/74750


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Steven Capsuto  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:37
Spanish to English
+ ...
Other options Aug 10, 2007

I generally use Moneybookers for incoming payments from foreign clients and have found their fee structure much more reasonable than Paypal's.

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ATIL KAYHAN  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 05:37
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
You thought it is called eBay? Aug 10, 2007

Here is the fee schedule for eBay and PayPal:

Starting or Reserve Price------>-------Insertion Fee
$0.01 – $0.99------------->--------------$0.20
$1.00 – $9.99-------------->-------------$0.40
$10.00 – $24.99----------->-------------$0.60
$25.00 – $49.99------------>------------$1.20
$50.00 – $199.99----------->-----------$2.40
$200.00 – $499.99----------->----------$3.60
$500.00 or more---------->-------------$4.80

Closing Price--------------->------------Final Value Fee
Item not sold---------------->--------------0
$0.01 – $25.00--------------->-----------5.25 % of the closing value
$25.01 – $1,000.00----------->-----------5.25 % of the initial $25.00 ($1.31), plus 3.00 % of the remaining closing value balance ($25.01 to $1,000.00)
Equal to or Over $1,000.01------->-------5.25 % of the initial $25.00 ($1.31), plus 3.00 % of the initial $25.00 - $1,000.00 ($29.25), plus 1.50 % of the remaining closing value balance ($1,000.01 - closing value)


Closing Price---------->-----------PayPal Fee (Premier Account)
Any amount received------->--------2.9 % + $0.30 + 1 % Cross Border Fee if payment is from outside the US


It is no wonder that they call it feeBay in the US.


Sincerely,
Atil

[Edited at 2007-08-10 18:05]


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 04:37
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Bozo price list Aug 10, 2007

the intentions are probably not that much ripping off the meek (although, hey, if it works, they sure would not complain), its more to push this penny-counting crowd out of the system, thus changing the average customers profile to a more pleasing distribution.

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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:37
English to German
+ ...
They used to be reasonable Aug 10, 2007

I've been using PayPal for a very long time now. Initially I only used it to pay for items I had bought privately on eBay, but then some of my US clients proposed to use it for regular payment.

At the beginning it was reasonably priced, IMHO. My bank charges 15 € for each US check I send in for clearance, which is a lot if the amount on the check is smaller than, say, US$150 (and I used to have a lot of these small checks coming in, even if I told clients to withhold payment until the amount reaches $300 or $400).

For the last payment I received from my client (around US$1,000) PayPal charged a processing fee of US$40, plus they earn more by applying their own conversion rate.

I think it's time to tell my clients to start sending checks again.

Sonja


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Ramon Somoza  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:37
Member (2002)
Dutch to Spanish
+ ...
Complain if you think it's a rip-off Aug 11, 2007

e-Bay is registered as a financial institution in the EU. If you think that they are charging you incorrectly, then complain and if they do not respond adequately then raise a complaint to the corresponding monetary institutions (I believe the UK).

However, probably it's what Atil states, that you are being charged by both eBay and Paypal.

I personally use more Moneybookers than Paypal, but like Sonya I draw the line when receiving payments from customers at a fixed amount of approx. 200 euros. IMHO, these payment brokers are only cost-effective for small amounts, where it is the banks that rip you off. For higher amounts I ask however for a bank transfer.

Contrary to Sonja, I very rarely accept checks, due to the time involved to cash them in, the risk of bouncing and the associated cost.


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Richard Bartholomew  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:37
Member (2007)
German to English
RE: The paypal rip-off Aug 11, 2007

I've gotten really spoiled when it comes to converting dollars to euros.

I have two bank accounts, one at Bank of America in dollars and one at Deutsche Bank in Euros. Whenever I want to transfer funds from the Bank of America account into the Deutsche Bank account, I

o go to a Deutsche Bank ATM,
o insert my Bank of America bank card,
o withdraw an amount in Euros (up to 500 Euros),
o remove the cash from the ATM,
o insert my Deutsche Bank bank card,
o put the cash back into the ATM and
o deposit the cash into the Deutsche Bank account.

There is no conversion fee and I get the $/Euro conversion rate shown at http://www.xe.com/ucc/. It all happens in real time

When I transfered $100 from my Bank of America to my Deutsche Bank account, via two separate Paypal accounts,

o Paypal charged me a $4.20 processing fee, and
o used the $/Euro rate from http://www.xe.com/ucc/ + 0.05 and
o I had to wait 5 days to get the funds from BoA into the dollar Paypal account.

Of course I couldn't do this from the US, but it saves me money and irritation when transfering funds in Europe.


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Lori Cirefice  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:37
French to English
BofA Aug 11, 2007

Rich B. - I also do the same thing between my BofA account in $ and my French account in €. It's always the best deal as far as the exchange rate, however, BofA does charge me a fee for withdrawing at a foreign ATM, $2 if I recall.

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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 22:37
English to French
+ ...
What about charging the fees to the client? Aug 12, 2007

I know this is not the way payments usually work between vendors and customers in Europe, but in North America, for instance, it is usually the customer who pays the charges. I offer my clients many different ways to pay me and it is up to them to pick the one that is most economical for them, but they are the ones who have chosen the payment method and I consider that it is up to them to pay the charges - when I use my debit card at the grocery store, I am the one who pays the transaction fee. Therefore, if a client wants to pay me by PayPal, they are free to do so, but I then charge a 4% transaction fee.

In any case, when you send an invoice to your client, you are supposed to receive the exact amount you charged, not a penny less. The only exception would be the exchange fee, but even there, the responsibility should be shared. After all, the client chose to deal with someone outside their country - if they don't want to have to deal with fees, they should deal with someone in their own country. International transactions always cost money - I just don't see why it should be the vendor who covers those fees and the client can deal with people in all countries without ever paying for the fees. Somehow, it doesn't sound fair...


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Richard Bartholomew  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:37
Member (2007)
German to English
RE: BofA Aug 13, 2007

Hi Lori,

I tried this trick with Post Bank and Commerz Bank and both
of them charged me an ATM fee. But, amazingly, Deutsche
Bank does not. Even with a $2 ATM fee it's still a good deal
if you can get a decent exchange rate.


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xxxzsuzsa369
Local time: 03:37
English to Hungarian
+ ...
PayPal charges for outgoing payments? Aug 19, 2007

Martin Wenzel wrote:

I continued to do shopping at ebay this month again. Surprise, surprise, this month a similar amount appears on my bank account. That's when I became suspicious. Now I find out that this is the amount paypal is charging me for 4 international payments, in other words they charge me the same amount that all my seeds cost together.



I thought PayPal only charged for incoming payments? They've never charged me any transaction fees for purchases made in the past. Maybe they only charge for certain currencies? I couldn't find any information about this on their website.


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Sophie Blachet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:37
English to French
BofA and sister bank Sep 20, 2007

Hello

Most of banks have sisters bank, meaning that each large bank works with another bank forming a group, and you won't be charge fees from ATM and other opeations.
So Bank of America (US) "works" with BNP (France) or Barclays (in the UK) or hCina Construction Bank (China), Deutsche Bank (Germany), Santander Serfin (Mexico), Scotiabank (Canada) and Westpac (Australia and New Zealand)

It works with all banks.
Simply ask your bank and then you will avoid bank fees.

Hope it helps


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