What should I do with an outsourcer that was banned?
Thread poster: xxxdimitris_gre
xxxdimitris_gre  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:53
Dec 29, 2007

On the 19th of December there was a post about a job in various languages, including greek. The rate was 0.22 USD per word and there was not any post on the BlueBoard about this company. I sent an email to these people with my CV and after a couple of emails I got the job. However, after a few hours, this job was not visible (not even that it was closed) and today I saw that this company was banned and their offer was removed by the proz stuff after a few hours of its posting. Reason unknown for me...I would like your advice, should I risk completing this job or I should spend the new years eve with my family without bothering about them?

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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 19:53
Spanish
+ ...
Contact a Jobs moderator Dec 29, 2007

That sounds fishy and very risky. The job posting can be removed for many different reasons, but it's not normal for an outsourcer to be banned. I'd contact a job moderator ASAP before continuing working on the project.

Good luck,

Claudia


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xxxdimitris_gre  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:53
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, I already did Dec 29, 2007

Dear Claudia thanks for your answer. I contacted a proz moderator and I'm waiting for her answer. One more thing, to be more precise, they were banned from posting jobs in Proz, not from being proz memebrs...

[Πέρασε επιμέλεια στις 2007-12-29 01:16]


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Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 19:53
Spanish to English
I don't know Dec 29, 2007

but it takes a lot for an outsourcer to be banned. The worst rip off I ever suffered was for about 5000 dollars for over two months of work and that outsourcer has not only not been banned but is highly rated on blueboard. I'd say if the job is really small it might be worth taking a chance, but otherwise forget it.

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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 02:53
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
Hi Dimitrios Dec 29, 2007

Dimitrios Kte wrote:
I contacted a proz moderator and I'm waiting for her answer.


While you are waiting for the answer of a fellow moderator I can already provide an answer here, in this thread.

The job has been posted by a banned outsourcer who tried to disguise under a new name. As soon as this has been discovered the job has been squashed.


One more thing, to be more precise, they were banned from posting jobs in Proz, not from being proz emebrs...


Not quite true. First of all, they weren't 'members', they were only users as they simply created a new profile instead of the blocked one. Moreover, their profiles were removed (as always ibn case of banned outsourcers).

Natalia,
ProZ.com jobs moderator


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xxxdimitris_gre  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:53
TOPIC STARTER
I'm so glad... Dec 29, 2007

I'm very happy to get this piece of information so quickly... You recognised the guys I was talking about and I hope that my fellows from the other countries that got this job to turn off their PCs and celebrate for the new year... Natalie I wish you a very happy new year, I'm really grateful to you for your post!!!

[Πέρασε επιμέλεια στις 2007-12-29 12:28]


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Satto (Roberto)  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 19:53
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
What does it take for an outsourcer to get banned? Dec 29, 2007

Lesley Clarke wrote:

but it takes a lot for an outsourcer to be banned. The worst rip off I ever suffered was for about 5000 dollars for over two months of work and that outsourcer has not only not been banned but is highly rated on blueboard. I'd say if the job is really small it might be worth taking a chance, but otherwise forget it.


I also provided enough proof for another translator/outsourcer to get banned and this person actually had 3 bad blueboard entries, was banned from posting jobs for only a couple of months and after many fights the guy paid up and what happened to his BB entries...voilá...they're gone! So who will know that this person is a scammer? NOBODY ..so what is the BB for...only for the good guys?

If the bad comments get erased what is the BB for, may I ask? BB rules state that after 3 bad BB entries the person gets banned...FALSE this person had them and then they were erased...

Every time I post something like this, I moderator kindly asks what happened, I explain and everything is normal again ..and the scammer..is still " fellow Prozonian" alive and kicking...


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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 02:53
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
Hi Roberto Dec 29, 2007

Satto (Roberto) wrote:
If the bad comments get erased what is the BB for, may I ask? BB rules state that after 3 bad BB entries the person gets banned...FALSE this person had them and then they were erased...


In fact, the comments are not erased; they are only hidden, visible to the site staff and jobs moderators, so the whole history of the outsourcer is kept in the archive. What about the comments themselves: they may be hidden because of various reasons, mostly because something does not comply.


Every time I post something like this, I moderator kindly asks what happened, I explain and everything is normal again ..and the scammer..is still " fellow Prozonian" alive and kicking...


Not quite true; the " fellow Prozonian" has been banned in October.


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Capesha  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:53
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
oh dear... Dec 29, 2007

I was the English - German translator who also applied for this job - and got it.
I just saw your thread and really don't know what to do now.

Any recommendations?
I think, the only thing that I can do is to ask for payment in advance or to leave it?

Dimitrios, what are you doing?


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 20:53
English to French
+ ...
Good idea Dec 31, 2007

Capesha wrote:

I think, the only thing that I can do is to ask for payment in advance or to leave it?



You should do this not only in this particular case but with all new clients. To start with, you should not accept large jobs the first time you work with someone and you should get advance payment. If more of us did this, this would become standard practice and most of those who had non-payment issues before would never have them again.

As for the BlueBoard, all I have to say is that there is one translator/outsourcer who failed to pay me for nine months and even then she only paid because I was friends with another person she was working for, who told her to pay me or else she will not get her own payment (which was a much larger sum, lucky for me). Well, she now has five negative BB feedback, all of them non-payment feedback, and she is still posting jobs and enjoying many suspiciously positive feedbacks posted over a suspiciously short period. When I posted my negative feedback after the issue was finally resolved, let me quote what she replied: "Never, ever work with this person!". So, as per BB records, I am the mean one and of course, she is the nice one, since she has a 4.3 BB average and I don't even have a BlueBoard record.

I ask the same question as others have: what good is the BlueBoard if it serves only the interests of the outsourcer? What good is the BlueBoard if it is used for lies? Can we please blacklist the cheaters, for once? Or is ProZ more interested in helping the bad guys keep making money on our backs while we have trouble paying our bills? I make good money, but it has happened to me more than once to have to reach into my savings because of late payment and non-payment, not to mention the loss itself. While ProZ cannot be held accountable for this, it is a fact that ProZ has lots of freedom to improve the situation. How about beginning with booting unreliable outsourcers, as per site rules?


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xxxdimitris_gre  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:53
TOPIC STARTER
I partially agree Dec 31, 2007

I think that the way BB works should be the main topic of discussion for the new year. It should be something like a filter to prove that BB posts are true... Anyway, this is something we should discuss with the moderators... About the issue of advance payment, in this case that this user has been banned I totally disagree. I'm not going to give any personal and payment details to a person with a suspicious past...

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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 02:53
German to English
Viktoria Jan 1, 2008

Viktoria Gimbe wrote:

When I posted my negative feedback after the issue was finally resolved, let me quote what she replied: "Never, ever work with this person!". So, as per BB records, I am the mean one and of course, she is the nice one, since she has a 4.3 BB average and I don't even have a BlueBoard record.

I ask the same question as others have: what good is the BlueBoard if it serves only the interests of the outsourcer?


Viktoria,
I agree with you 100%. I had a similar experience and was able with two other victims to get the outsourcer banned from posting jobs. The only trouble with this is, his profile is still up there, he can't *post* jobs, but the community does not know that he has been banned for nonpayment at all! And to top it off, what is left up there on the BB for all to read is his reply/lie to my comment accusing me of causing havoc with his good client leaving me with the egg on my face and not the other way around.

I would like to see the outsourcer having the last say stopped. Let the observer be the judge.


[Edited at 2008-01-01 17:01]


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