| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Pure Good Intention Turn Down By Client In France Thread poster: Sarawut Niramai
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Zamira B. 
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:47
Member (2006)
English to Russian
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Jan Willem van Dormolen wrote:
Maybe this is something for the Blue Board?
I agree that it is highly unusual for a client to complain about potentially useful suggestions from the translator.
The agency should have made allowances for you as a non-native speaker of English and perhaps for cultural differences. There is certainly overreaction on the agency's side and it is certainly not being impersonal to say the least. Since this communication was initiated by you, I would rate them 3 (not 1 or 2) stating the name of the person. On a second thought thou I would rate them 1.
| | | | Sarawut Niramai
Thailand
Local time: 19:47
Member
English to Thai
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for all the suggestion | Mar 5, 2008 |
You kind condemnation is really helpful and I admit it:) This will never happen again from me. Anyhow regarding raising example for them, this is quite another thing because the whole interface terms (which is another translation in Thai not the source language) is almost entirely awkward so I decided to tell them that way. Hope I won't lose client like they said though
| | | | Sarawut Niramai
Thailand
Local time: 19:47
Member
English to Thai
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sarawut Niramai wrote: You kind condemnation is really helpful and I admit it:) This will never happen again from me. Anyhow regarding raising example for them, this is quite another thing because the whole interface terms (which is another translation in Thai not the source language) is almost entirely awkward so I decided to tell them that way. Hope I won't lose client like they said though
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:47
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Misunderstandings will occur | Mar 5, 2008 |
Sarawut Niramai wrote:
Client: Frankly speaking there is No reason to tell the client he is a professional and knows what he is doing, so this is none of your business
It is at this point that you should have recognised that the client is peed off about something, and you should have guessed that he had misunderstood your attempt to be helpful.
It is also at this point that I think you should have dropped the matter.
Your response at this point, "I'm very surprised with your attitude. ... Do you know how rude your reply is?" was fat in the fire. The client was rude first, yes, but that is no excuse for showing that you had taken offence in your reply.
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Sarawut Niramai
Thailand
Local time: 19:47
Member
English to Thai
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
still you are right Samuel
| | | | | Translation/Original | Mar 5, 2008 |
Hi Sarawut,
Would it be possible you and the agency didn't talk about the same text?
If I get it well, you were talking about the former Thaï translation which was awkward (probably the reason why the client wanted it to be redone?). Could it be possible the agency understood you were talking about the English original, written by their US client?
In this case, I can understand their reaction when they read "your client surely doesn't have an IT-background, does he? Ple... See more Hi Sarawut,
Would it be possible you and the agency didn't talk about the same text?
If I get it well, you were talking about the former Thaï translation which was awkward (probably the reason why the client wanted it to be redone?). Could it be possible the agency understood you were talking about the English original, written by their US client?
In this case, I can understand their reaction when they read "your client surely doesn't have an IT-background, does he? Please tell him his text is awkward" :-S ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The educational approach | Mar 5, 2008 |
I do this all the time, try to "educate" the client, giving them information they obviously don't have, otherwise I'd have nothing to preach about.
No matter how incisive I get, I never make general statements, but refer to specific examples. Inventing one now, I'd clarify that one doesn't "engrave a file on a hard disk" but "saves it to a hard disk" instead.
I had a case yesterday - not solved yet - where the end-client checked a finished subtitled video,... See more I do this all the time, try to "educate" the client, giving them information they obviously don't have, otherwise I'd have nothing to preach about.
No matter how incisive I get, I never make general statements, but refer to specific examples. Inventing one now, I'd clarify that one doesn't "engrave a file on a hard disk" but "saves it to a hard disk" instead.
I had a case yesterday - not solved yet - where the end-client checked a finished subtitled video, and decided they want some changes there. After an uphill struggle, they accepted to pay for the rework involved. The client wanted some two-line subtitles spanning from one edge of the screen to the other, to include expressions like "What is the criticity of the productivity...?".
I wrote them that if such verborrhage is essential, it would be better to e-mail or fax the text to the audience, as they won't get a chance to watch any of the video. I also explained that subtitles must be shortened as much as possible to give this chance to spectators. So it's perfectly normal to translate "It is my deepheartedly held belief that..." for subtitles like "I believe..." or "I strongly believe..." at most. So the example at the end of the previous paragraph, which would "turn off" the average spectator for several seconds, should become "How critical is productivity...?"
Few people will not surrender to the obvious, but you have to make your case and back it up with examples.
[Edited at 2008-03-05 10:42] ▲ Collapse
| | | | NMR (X)
France
Local time: 14:47
French to Dutch
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| Agree with Tina too | Mar 5, 2008 |
Nothing to be added. Not only I drop "should" and "must", but I suggest and say "in my opinion". Last week, I had a text to be inserted in a website. The website was already existing and of the expensive kind. There were lots of things which could have been severely criticized, but as the client was new I suggested him to suggest to the distributor in my country that his services would have a look at it because "some things could have said better".
Some of the basic marketing sayin... See more Nothing to be added. Not only I drop "should" and "must", but I suggest and say "in my opinion". Last week, I had a text to be inserted in a website. The website was already existing and of the expensive kind. There were lots of things which could have been severely criticized, but as the client was new I suggested him to suggest to the distributor in my country that his services would have a look at it because "some things could have said better".
Some of the basic marketing sayings is that clients always are happy with things they bought. When I did marketing, the use of negative words such as "not", "never", "don't", "should not" and "problem" was strictly forbidden. Clients never have a problem. And don't forget that in some cases a translator is considered as less than a secretary. So take a double pair of gloves.
And besides, are you sure that the clients who thanked you for your suggestions transmitted them to their end client? ▲ Collapse
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Sarawut Niramai
Thailand
Local time: 19:47
Member
English to Thai
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Reply to the above comment | Mar 5, 2008 |
Yes, Most of the company would go back to their client. And if they don't believe they will ask me to proof it. Then they might ask for a whole new translation or let the translator revise translation and ask me to proof again. But most of the time if translation is too bad it means that translator is not competent enough (lack or lazy to research) so most of them ask for a new translation. Client who understands localization will accept my suggestion very well but this is really the first insta... See more Yes, Most of the company would go back to their client. And if they don't believe they will ask me to proof it. Then they might ask for a whole new translation or let the translator revise translation and ask me to proof again. But most of the time if translation is too bad it means that translator is not competent enough (lack or lazy to research) so most of them ask for a new translation. Client who understands localization will accept my suggestion very well but this is really the first instance with such word 'Not My Business or Client's or Yours'. I even argued with my employer regarding her translation (you can not translate certain law term using the same translation for the same Thai word since it depends of the jurisdiction of certain places) because she uses monarchy term for a presidential jurisdiction. I tried to explain but she still couldn't understand but never insult me back at all though she felt a little embarrassed of that. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alex Eames
Local time: 13:47
English to Polish
+ ...
| Two non-natives conversing in writing :) | Mar 11, 2008 |
Client: Please be advised that there is No need to send some sort of complaint to Eric, because he is my employee and I am the boss. The one who has been impolite from the beginning has been you and you have felt insulted because I am replying you very straightforward. How can you mix up clients with your friends or colleagues? You should never talk to clients (in this case our company) like you did. Do you also talk to direct clients like that? Well, soon you will lack clients if you continue like that. It is for sure that it is none of your business nor it is ours how the client organizes their internal software.
I think this whole thing got out of hand because it appears to be a case of two non-native "English" people communicating in English in writing. I've highlighted a few examples above that flag up "non-nativeness". Goodness knows communication by email is hard enough in your first language. In a second, third or fourth language it must be very hard.
I often find people from Germany or Russia come across as very aggressive when writing in English. I think it's due to slightly too literal translation of thoughts in one language to the other language without first going through a "cultural filter".
Your client's written English is very good, but it does not sound native to me. I think this contributed to the misunderstanding in this case.
Alex Eames
http://www.translatortips.com
helping translators do better business
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