Cafetran - monolingual?
Thread poster: Mariana Meschiatti
Mariana Meschiatti  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:02
Member (Feb 2017)
German to Portuguese
+ ...
Jun 10, 2015

Dear translators!

I need to send a "monolingual unclean .doc", how can I generate that with Cafetran? OR: how can I generate this from the bilingual unclean? Any softwares? Converters? Macros? Tricks?
The document should look like a sort of a text with some "random codes in blue and red", in the target language. It must also be re-importable (and as a .doc also compatible with other cat tools).
I´d really appreciate any help!

Thank you all!


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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I think Jun 10, 2015

marimesch wrote:
I need to send a "monolingual unclean .doc". It must also be re-importable (and as a .doc also compatible with other cat tools).


I think you need a bilingual uncleaned RTF document, perhaps? I'm not aware of any CAT tool that imports a monolingual "uncleaned" document, particularly in DOC format.

Into which CAT tool will the client want to import the document?

How can I generate this from the bilingual unclean?


It sounds as if you already have a "bilingual uncleaned" file, but since you seem to say that CafeTran produced it, I'm not sure what you mean by that (unless you mean the XLIFF file that CafeTran produces). As far as I know, CafeTran can't convert it's own XLIFF format into an uncleaned RTF file, and I know of no other CAT tools that can do that either.

The document should look like a sort of a text with some "random codes in blue and red", in the target language.


If you send me an example privately, by e-mail, then I may be able to identify the file type.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
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Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Reply II Jun 10, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
If you send me an example privately, by e-mail, then I may be able to identify the file type.


[Please note that I don't use Cafetran myself.]

The file you sent me is not "monolingual" because it contains both source text and translation. It is called "uncleaned" because it hasn't been cleaned yet, and "cleaning" simply means to delete the source text and the purple tags (but not the blue or red ones).

I'm aware that some CAT tools can export in a format that looks very similar to this format, but it is my understanding that not all of those tools can also import it.

The file you sent me does seem to have been exported from some CAT tool, but not with one that I'm familiar with (I don't recognise the red and blue tags).

[ An example of the red (inline) tags is:
<i0 t="lb"/><i1 t="lb"/>
and an example of the blue (external) tags is:
<i2 t="lb"/> ]

You also mention in your e-mail that your client wants to be able to create a TM, and for that, the client would need the uncleaned (bilingual) version, not the cleaned (monolingual) version.

My guess is that the client will be sending you an untranslated DOC file that contains some tags in red and blue, and that he wants you to deliver the DOC file in this bilingual uncleaned format. The only ways to do that would be to use either Trados 2007 or Wordfast Classic.


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Mariana Meschiatti  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:02
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Reply Jun 10, 2015

Thanks a lot! At least I have a better idea of what I have to deal with.
The files I receive from them never have tags or anything special, they're "normal" .doc or .docx files.

Can Wordfast Anywhere make this?

I hope other cafetran users can help me further to get this exported.



[Edited at 2015-06-10 12:05 GMT]


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:02
Finnish to French
Ask your client what they use Jun 10, 2015

marimesch wrote:
I need to send a "monolingual unclean .doc", how can I generate that with Cafetran?

"monolingual unclean" doesn't make much sense to me, since "unclean" usually refers to bilingual documents, such as those obtained with Trados Translator's Workbench or Wordfast Classic.

The native bilingual format used by CafeTran is XLIFF. Many tools can open XLIFF files nowadays, so with luck it may suit your client as such. If I were you, I would ask them what tool they are using. This would provide a clue as to what they really want/need.


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Mariana Meschiatti  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:02
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German to Portuguese
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re-import Jun 10, 2015

Thanks too, Dominique!

I wonder if there is a way to convert the .xliff in .doc?

And about the tool they use: I didn´t ask, but they told me they need a .doc in this specific way so that others can re-import it in their cat tools as well (reviewers, mostly). And they also said the table in the bilingual generated by cafetran makes the re-import not possible.

The whole thing is also confusing for me too...


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:02
Finnish to French
Possible workflows Jun 10, 2015

marimesch wrote:
And about the tool they use: I didn´t ask, but they told me they need a .doc in this specific way so that others can re-import it in their cat tools as well (reviewers, mostly). And they also said the table in the bilingual generated by cafetran makes the re-import not possible.

I beg to differ: the bilingual table generated by CafeTran is ideal for reviewing (all the reviewers need is a copy of Word) and the reviewed translation can be re-imported ... into CafeTran (by you).

The other possibility would be for them (or their reviewers) to install a copy of CafeTran, in which case they would be able to open the native XLF, do the reviewing (in CafeTran) and export the final translation. I believe they could do all this with the trial version of CafeTran.

If you really want to accommodate their CAT tool(s), there is no way you can do it without knowing what tool(s) they are using.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Convert it with a macro? Jun 10, 2015

marimesch wrote:
They also said the table in the bilingual generated by CafeTran makes the re-import not possible.


Well, CafeTran's "bilingual review" format is a three column table in MS Word, right? You should be able to record a macro that turns that table into faux uncleaned RTF format. There is a small chance that that would satisfy the client. If I can get my hands on a sample file from CafeTran (i.e. the three column table in MS Word) I can record the macro for you, to see if the client is happy with the result.

Dominique Pivard wrote:
I beg to differ: the bilingual table generated by CafeTran is ideal for reviewing...


Only if the reviewers enjoy reviewing in side-by-side view. Personally, whenever I get such a file from e.g. Trados, Wordfast, MemoQ, etc, I convert the table to uncleaned RTF so that I can review it in above-and-below view. Maybe the client's reviewer has a similar preference.

Also, yes, the CafeTran table is only useful if the person importing the translation also uses CafeTran.

[Edited at 2015-06-10 19:59 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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The recorded macro Jun 11, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
Well, CafeTran's "bilingual review" format is a three column table in MS Word, right? You should be able to record a macro that turns that table into faux uncleaned RTF format. There is a small chance that that would satisfy the client. If I can get my hands on a sample file from CafeTran (i.e. the three column table in MS Word) I can record the macro for you, to see if the client is happy with the result.


The recorded macros work on my computer, but not on Maria's, unfortunately:
http://wikisend.com/download/193452/cafetran_tw4winstyles.zip


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Mariana Meschiatti  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:02
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very close Jun 11, 2015

Close shot! Thanks for your time!

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Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:02
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
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Very interesting Samuel, thanks! Jun 11, 2015

Can't get it to run on my PC, in Office 2010. The first macro gives the following error:

"Microsoft Visual Basic
Run-time error '-2147352573 (80020003)': Unable to run the specified macro"

see also: https://goo.gl/photos/mfdpnkxwZKQKskCo9

I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that you created it in an older version of Office.

[Edited at 2015-06-11 13:01 GMT]


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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No, I see the error... Jun 11, 2015

Michael Beijer wrote:
See also: https://goo.gl/photos/mfdpnkxwZKQKskCo9


Dang! It's because I have WFC installed, now MS Word thinks it must include WFC references in the recorded macro. The line "Application.Run MacroName:="Wordfast.M0.NextCell"" simply means that I pressed Shift+TAB. I don't know why MS Word associates the TAB key to Wordfast on my computer. Wordfast wasn't even running when I recorded the macro.

As I'm a VBA recorder, not a VBA programmer, I have no idea how to fix this (googling doesn't get me an answer either)... but I can re-record the macro, taking care not to use the TAB key. Try it now:

http://wikisend.com/download/184762/xcafetran_tw4winstyles.zip


[Edited at 2015-06-11 13:38 GMT]


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Mariana Meschiatti  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:02
Member (Feb 2017)
German to Portuguese
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results Jun 11, 2015

So, good news!

First macro trial:
In Mac the error number was 4633.
I tried then with a friend in a PC and the error was the same as Michael´s.

As the first macro is for deleting both the first row and columne, we did that before starting the macro, and ran the 2 and the 3. Successful.
Macro 4 had a Problem, which we solved by deleting the two false commands - Selection.NoProofing and Aplication.CheckLanguage - and voilá!
We re-imported it in Trados, Cafetran and Wordfast and it worked! Amazing!

The second file with macros:
Flawless until step 4, where the same errors happen. Solved the same way.

Our Word versions: PC - 2010 and Mac 2011
Our Cat-tools: TRADOS 2014, Cafetran 2015 and Wordfast 2008

Thanks for all Samuel and everybody!


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