Standalone CAT tools and MS Office dependency?
Thread poster: Sebastijan P

Sebastijan P
Slovenia
English to Slovenian
+ ...
May 29, 2009

Hello!

If you take most of CAT tools that have their own translation environment/editor, there is still the requirement to have MS Office installed.

Take for example Across. When trying to install, after a few seconds the installer sends a notification that Office 2000 or later is not installed. And if you do not have Office, the install ends.

Where is the point in all this Office mess?

What if I will NEVER translate Office files? What is the argument to require Office for the sole purpose of installation? What if I will convert everything to Xliff?

Your opinion?

Sebastijan


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Oversight from Across May 29, 2009

PICOW wrote:
Take for example Across. When trying to install, after a few seconds the installer sends a notification that Office 2000 or later is not installed. And if you do not have Office, the install ends.


Some CAT tools have certain system requirements that may include that certain applications must be present. In Across, you must have IE 6 or 7 installed, for example. According to the Across system requirements document (which is linked to from the page where you would normally download the installer), you only need to have MS Office installed if you're going to translate in those formats. So this looks like an oversight from Across -- their system requirements document is wrong. Perhaps you should let them know.

ftp://ftp.across.net/documentation/SystemRequirements_v40_en.pdf
2 A minimum requirement is to have all Office applications installed whose formats are to be translated. (emphasis mine)

I have no problem with CAT tools having certain system requirements, but then those requirements must be stated. You can assume that most people using Windows XP has at least IE 6 installed, so there's no need to mention it. But you can't assume that everyone will have MS Office 2000 or later.


 

Sebastijan P
Slovenia
English to Slovenian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tried an install yesterday May 29, 2009

Samuel Murray wrote:

PICOW wrote:
Take for example Across. When trying to install, after a few seconds the installer sends a notification that Office 2000 or later is not installed. And if you do not have Office, the install ends.


Some CAT tools have certain system requirements that may include that certain applications must be present. In Across, you must have IE 6 or 7 installed, for example. According to the Across system requirements document (which is linked to from the page where you would normally download the installer), you only need to have MS Office installed if you're going to translate in those formats. So this looks like an oversight from Across -- their system requirements document is wrong. Perhaps you should let them know.

ftp://ftp.across.net/documentation/SystemRequirements_v40_en.pdf
2 A minimum requirement is to have all Office applications installed whose formats are to be translated. (emphasis mine)

I have no problem with CAT tools having certain system requirements, but then those requirements must be stated. You can assume that most people using Windows XP has at least IE 6 installed, so there's no need to mention it. But you can't assume that everyone will have MS Office 2000 or later.


I tried to install Across yesterday on a machine without Office. Not possible.

Sebastijan


 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
If am not mistaken... May 29, 2009

Samuel Murray wrote:


ftp://ftp.across.net/documentation/SystemRequirements_v40_en.pdf
2 A minimum requirement is to have all Office applications installed whose formats are to be translated. (emphasis mine)

I have no problem with CAT tools having certain system requirements, but then those requirements must be stated. You can assume that most people using Windows XP has at least IE 6 installed, so there's no need to mention it. But you can't assume that everyone will have MS Office 2000 or later.


... Across needs only one particular font that is included in Office 2000 or higher. So, only in order to get this font you have to install the whole Office...icon_rolleyes.gif



P.S. I checked their homepage and they explain it under "system requirements". The font needed is Arial Unicode MS (Standard).


[Bearbeitet am 2009-05-29 18:00 GMT]


 

Jaroslaw Michalak  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 08:01
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Trados... May 29, 2009

Trados (and probably other CATs) uses internal Office libraries to convert files from and to Office formats...

Writing their own conversion tools from scratch might be difficult and expensive (basically, they would need to reverse-engineer the Office tools). Purchasing the tools from Microsoft to include in the CAT package would be just expensive.

So, the situation where the end user of their software has to buy the required tools himself is the win-win situation for the CAT companies...


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
So, essentially... May 29, 2009

Christel Zipfel wrote:
P.S. I checked their homepage and they explain it under "system requirements". The font needed is Arial Unicode MS (Standard).


So, essentially the free version of Across costs USD 99.00, because that's what Arial Unicode cost from the official supplier:

http://www.ascenderfonts.com/font/arial-unicode.aspx

Does Across install if you create a dummy font with the correct name?


 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Oh, it would be worth a try! May 29, 2009

Samuel Murray wrote:

Christel Zipfel wrote:
P.S. I checked their homepage and they explain it under "system requirements". The font needed is Arial Unicode MS (Standard).


So, essentially the free version of Across costs USD 99.00, because that's what Arial Unicode cost from the official supplier:

http://www.ascenderfonts.com/font/arial-unicode.aspx

Does Across install if you create a dummy font with the correct name?


I have installed Office 2003 at purpose (I am still using version 97 primarily) and things got messed up somehow since then as I have the two versions.:-( Not a big issue, but unnerving sometimes. Has anybody tried to install a dummy font?


 

Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
They have binary filters now, don't they? May 29, 2009


Trados (and probably other CATs) uses internal Office libraries to convert files from and to Office formats...

Writing their own conversion tools from scratch might be difficult and expensive (basically, they would need to reverse-engineer the Office tools). Purchasing the tools from Microsoft to include in the CAT package would be just expensive.

So, the situation where the end user of their software has to buy the required tools himself is the win-win situation for the CAT companies...


I am nearly sure that since Trados 8, TagEditor has a binary filter for Word DOC files. You can translate them with TagEditor without Word (you could not use the preview, though.

The last version of WordFast also has a binary filter for DOC files.

DOCX files (Word 2007) are XML and can be edited without Word.

Daniel


 

Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:01
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
Across is not the only option May 29, 2009

PICOW wrote:

iF you take most of CAT tools that have their own translation environment/editor, there is still the requirement to have MS Office installed.

Sebastijan


You don't have to use M$ Office for all CAT tools. OmegaT uses OpenOffice (free), which can convert translated files to Word or Excel or PowerPoint to deliver to clients who want M$ Office products. If I'm not mistaken, Wordfast doesn't require Microsoft either. I'm not sure about some of the others.

Susan


 

Uwe Schwenk (X)
Local time: 01:01
English to German
Arial Unicode Jun 2, 2009

Samuel Murray wrote:

Christel Zipfel wrote:
P.S. I checked their homepage and they explain it under "system requirements". The font needed is Arial Unicode MS (Standard).


So, essentially the free version of Across costs USD 99.00, because that's what Arial Unicode cost from the official supplier:

http://www.ascenderfonts.com/font/arial-unicode.aspx

Does Across install if you create a dummy font with the correct name?


Samuel,

I would have to disagree with you because the Arial Unicode Font is part of the Windows installation routine. Just insert the CD and add the font. Therefore, I dont see a cost here except the time it takes to get it up and running.

Uwe

[Edited at 2009-06-02 16:57 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-06-02 16:59 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Disagree with me? Jun 2, 2009

Uwe Schwenk wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Christel Zipfel wrote:
P.S. I checked their homepage and they explain it under "system requirements". The font needed is Arial Unicode MS (Standard).

So, essentially the free version of Across costs USD 99.00, because that's what Arial Unicode cost from the official supplier...

I would have to disagree with you because the Arial Unicode Font is part of the Windows installation routine.


Well, you should really disagree with Christel, then, because I was merely commenting on what she said. But if Arial Unicode is indeed included in MS Windows, then the reason why Sebastijan could not install Across remains a mystery, doesn't it?


 

Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Arial Unicode does not come with Windows Jun 2, 2009

Uwe Schwenk wrote:
I would have to disagree with you because the Arial Unicode Font is part of the Windows installation routine. Just insert the CD and add the font.


Hi, Uwe,

I have to disagree with you.icon_smile.gif

"Arial Unicode MS" (its full name) is not part of the Windows installation.

It's only installed with some Microsoft Products (like MS Office) but not with Windows.

This links shows which products include the "Arial Unicode MS" font.

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fonts/font.aspx?FMID=1081

Windows includes a font called "Arial" which is not "Arial Unicode". They are different fonts.

Daniel


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Checked Jun 2, 2009

Uwe Schwenk wrote:
...the Arial Unicode Font is part of the Windows installation routine. Just insert the CD and add the font.


I just checked my CDs for Windows 98SE, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows 7. Arial Unicode MS is not on any of them. What version of Windows are you using, Uwe?


 

Uwe Schwenk (X)
Local time: 01:01
English to German
Arial Unicode Jun 2, 2009

Samuel, Daniel,

beginning with XP the font is included and installed automtically in the OS. See the link below:


http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HP052558401033.aspx

Also I checked my own boxes because I have a few without office of any kind and in Vista and XP its there.


The file you are looking for is ARIALUNI.TTF in the relevant font directory.



Uwe

PS: Samuel, the reason I disagreed with you was the fact that you had stated a price.



[Edited at 2009-06-02 22:58 GMT]


 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Answer from Across support Jun 3, 2009

As I am personally very interested in this issue, I asked Across directly.

They confirm that only the font MS Arial Unicode must be installed to run Across. MS Office is necessary only if you want to translate .doc, .xls and .ppt files. But who of us does never translate those files?

Conclusion: MS Office must be installed in this case, even if you have installed separately MS Arial Unicode (e.g. only Outlook 2000 which contains this font).


 


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