Wanted: CAT tool with mouseover feature
Thread poster: J Brandt Badger

J Brandt Badger
United States
Local time: 02:06
Spanish to English
+ ...
Feb 4, 2010

Is there a CAT tool out there that will display fuzzy matches when I mouseover a segment or word? I can't find a CAT tool with this feature anywhere!

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J Brandt Badger
United States
Local time: 02:06
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
is mouseover simply unavailable? Feb 4, 2010

If an effective mouseover feature does NOT appear to currently exist within any of the CAT tools, I would love to know that as well.

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Hermann Bruns  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:06
English to German
Note really possible due to time restraints Feb 4, 2010

Hello J,

in principle, a mouseover feature is possible, but there is simple reason why you will hardly find such a feature in any cat tool: For a mouseover action you need very fast response times, and a fuzzy search is just too long for a mouseover action, especially when the TMs searched are big.

The other reason is that a fuzzy search for a segment requires a segmentation to be executed before the fuzzy search which costs extra time.

And one more remark: What's the point in seeing fuzzy search results if you cannot use them, anyway? If you actually intend to use fuzzy search results you will open the segment and edit the results in some way.

Best regards
Hermann
Developer of MetaTexis


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Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:06
German to Spanish
+ ...
Wanted: CAT tool with mouseover feature Feb 4, 2010

J Brandt Badger wrote:

Is there a CAT tool out there that will display fuzzy matches when I mouseover a segment or word? I can't find a CAT tool with this feature anywhere!


Why do you need a mouseover feature? So far I can remember, you can have two methods to see if it is a fuzzy or not (at least with trados 2007):

a) looking the match % in the middle of the translation unit ( 100% match)
b) setting up different colors for full and fuzzy matches


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Epameinondas Soufleros  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 09:06
Member (2008)
English to Greek
+ ...
The next best thing Feb 4, 2010

The next best thing to what you describe can be found in MemoQ, which does automatic concordance searches and displays them on the right pane of the editor. Give it a try!

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J Brandt Badger
United States
Local time: 02:06
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
shouldn't we expect a bit more? Feb 4, 2010

Hermann, Pablo -

Thank you so much for the input. I truly appreciate it and I hope that my subsequent comments here do not come across as ungrateful. That said, I am going to complain a bit about technology in the translation industry if your comments are accurate.

First, you are both absolutely right. The point would be to edit the segment.

My hope was that a tool might exist which, upon mouseover, would perform a few seconds of automatic searching and then present the user with fuzzy matches, which could be selected and inserted into the segment with a single click. It wouldn't have to be instantaneous, and there are many applications that perform this sort of task in other environments, so I didn't think it would be unrealistic to expect such a feature from a CAT tool. With the current state of technology in 2010, it's surprising to learn that truly impressive performance is difficult to find in translation software.

Again, I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. I am thankful for your input and willingness to share your experience and expertise in this area.

[Edited at 2010-02-04 18:36 GMT]


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J Brandt Badger
United States
Local time: 02:06
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you. Feb 4, 2010

Epameinondas,

Thank you for the recommendation. I've not tried MemoQ and I will certainly give it a try.


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Walter Moura  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:06
Member
English to Portuguese
CAT tool with mouseover feature Feb 4, 2010

The next best thing to what you just described is Glossy, a small application which you can find at

http://www.foreignword.biz/software/Glossy/.

It parses your word file and presents beside it the translation matches found in your glossaries, which you can replace with a click. It is very user friendly, and has other uses as well. You might want to try it.

I hope it helps you.


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Igor Kmitowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 08:06
English to Polish
+ ...
It is quite simple to implement... Feb 4, 2010

however a bit impractical for the already mentioned reasons. Besides, what if the user accidentally moves the mouse over the segment pointing to the menu, for example? CafeTran's solution is to click at the segment of the presegmented text.

Igor Kmitowski
Developer of CafeTran


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Hermann Feb 5, 2010

Hermann Bruns wrote:
For a mouseover action you need very fast response times, and a fuzzy search is just too long for a mouseover action, especially when the TMs searched are big.


Unless... unless the CAT tool uses prematching of some kind. If the CAT tool only looks up fuzzy matches when the user reaches a segment, then I can understand your point. But if the CAT tool does background matching and creates matching results for all segments even if the user hasn't gotten to those segments yet, then the display of a match can be quite fast.

The same goes for glossary matches. It should be fairly simple for a CAT tool to do lookups in the glossary for all words in all segments in advance (or in the background while the translator begins to translate the first few segments).

The other reason is that a fuzzy search for a segment requires a segmentation to be executed before the fuzzy search which costs extra time.


Absolutely. My previous remark was based on the assumption that the CAT tool presegments the entire file (even if it allows the user to manually adjust the segmentation in real time).

But even if there isn't presegmentation, a prematched concordance search is also theoretically possible. And it too can be done in the background, so the waiting time would only be an issue in the first few minutes of the translation process.

And one more remark: What's the point in seeing fuzzy search results if you cannot use them, anyway?


My assumption when I read the OP's post was that there would be an option to click on the match to insert it (it would then replace the source text, and it would be made editable somehow, eg through a bookmark or temporary boxes like the ones used in WFC and similar tools).



[Edited at 2010-02-05 12:51 GMT]


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 08:06
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Not defending CAT industry Feb 5, 2010

J Brandt Badger wrote:

Hermann, Pablo -

Thank you so much for the input. I truly appreciate it and I hope that my subsequent comments here do not come across as ungrateful. That said, I am going to complain a bit about technology in the translation industry if your comments are accurate.

First, you are both absolutely right. The point would be to edit the segment.

My hope was that a tool might exist which, upon mouseover, would perform a few seconds of automatic searching and then present the user with fuzzy matches, which could be selected and inserted into the segment with a single click. It wouldn't have to be instantaneous, and there are many applications that perform this sort of task in other environments, so I didn't think it would be unrealistic to expect such a feature from a CAT tool. With the current state of technology in 2010, it's surprising to learn that truly impressive performance is difficult to find in translation software.

Again, I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. I am thankful for your input and willingness to share your experience and expertise in this area.

[Edited at 2010-02-04 18:36 GMT]


Nobody is defending CAT makers and you have no reason to mince your words to protect some imaginary sensibilities.

This feature you have dreamt up seems like it would be pretty easy to execute, just nobody has done it... which leads to an obvious conlclusion: it probably hasn't been done because CAT makers think there is no point in doing it, and I tend to agree with them. I have no idea why I would need or want this feature and if it was enabled in my CAT by default I would probably switch it off right away.

All CATs look up fuzzy matches when you open a new segment so full-segment fuzzy matching is a moot point. So you're left with concordance search and glossary lookups as a possible usage scenario.
Mousover would probably be a bit faster than the current solution (select the word(s) and hit a keyboard shortcut or press a button) but not by that much. I don't do 5 concordance searches a minute, so it would tend to just get in the way whenever I use the mouse. I keep my mousover dictionary switched off 90% of the time for the same reason.
And then a concordance window is not like a dictionary or glossary lookup bubble which spits out 2 or 3 words and maybe two sentences of text. A concordance window could easily have 50 segment pairs in it and it's often convenient to have it fill the whole screen. Mouseover for this sort of thing would be horribly inconvenient. You'd be stuck with a too small concordance window and you'd be unable to move your mouse. How do you select text from the mousover bubble? How do you scroll it?
Maybe it would work well for glossary lookups, but again, how do you copy text from it conveniently? How do you search for multi-word expressions?

The whole point of mouseover is that the main window remains the active window and your mouse and keyboard inputs are executed on the main window. So you can't really interact with the mouseover bubble, it's designed for stuff you read at a glance and don't have to interact with.
I think the current paradigm is just better all around. You can select all the words you want to include in your search and get a real window you can interact with.


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