What do they mean by 100% and repetitions ?
Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 20:19
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Jun 3, 2004

I'm a bit confused by an output regarding a Trados project.
It lists a total of 92000 words, with 241 segment repetions (652 words) and 100% 1,524 segments (7,543 words), along with fuzzy matches.
Whats the diffenence between repetitions and 100% matches?


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Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:19
Member (2004)
German to English
Repetitions: from current document; 100% matches: from TM Jun 3, 2004

Repetitions are inside the document, e.g. titles, and 100% matches are with the TM

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-06-03 06:34]


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 19:19
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
Repetition --> 100% match Jun 3, 2004

Hello,

after the first translation of a "repetition" segment, it shift to a 100 % match at the next use of this segment.

Hans


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xxxLBoeuf
Local time: 19:19
English to French
+ ...
Matches from TM/matches from your own translations Jun 3, 2004

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Whats the diffenence between repetitions and 100% matches?

100% matches is what comes up from the TM (even before you started your translation), i.e. they are usually from other translators from previous translations.
Repetitions are 100% matches of your own translations within the same document.


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xxxLBoeuf
Local time: 19:19
English to French
+ ...
non-payment of 100% matches/reps Jun 3, 2004

Tayfun Torunoglu wrote:
Recently some outsourcers started to exclude 100% repetitions from "repetitions" and not to pay them.
2)"Pre-translations", they also try to discount this from total word count.

Some people will just never agree to pay for 100% matches, repetitions and/or pre-translations. These segments don't have to cost you any work though: You can skip these matches when translating (special function in Trados) - and that's just what I would do when they don't want to pay for them. You can tell them "Ok, you don't have to pay for them, but that does also mean that these matches will not be proof-read by me at all and I will take no responsibility for the correct translation of these matches".


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:49
English to Tamil
+ ...
The fault lies with the translators for this problem of reduced payment Jun 3, 2004

I am sure it was a translator, who first proposed the reductions to the outsourcers and not the other way around. It was mainly due to the translator acting as a businessman and not as a translator.

My stand is quite clear. I am not responsible for the repetitions. The author of the source text is. If the client wants reductions, I politely ask him to do the full translation by himself and save the entire amount. He cannot. End of argument. This is one of the reasons for my not going in for CAT tools. Even if I were to go in for one of them in future, I will quietly use it and not tell the outsourcer that I have them, as I consider that it is none of his business. He is just not qualified to discuss the difficulty or otherwise of a translation assignment.

And no question of offering to leave the repetitions untranslated. A translator is solely responsible for his translation and none else.

By the way is it possible to use a CAT tool and keep the outsourcer not informed about it, as proposed by me above? And no question of ethics here as I consider that having any tool is my choice and the outsourcer is just interested in the end product. For all he might be concerned, I may even have Alladin's lamp with me and get the translations doen in a jiffy.

Regards,
N.Raghavan

[Edited at 2004-06-04 00:47]


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 20:19
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your feedback! Jun 3, 2004

Well, now I understand.
Regarding the translation of 100% matches I would remark, that they not always are matches at all.
Why?
Lets take an example from a translation at hand:
English: "The display shows the message:"

There are at least 50 accurances of this segment. But there are three ways of translating this into Finnish (or German), depending on the content of the so called "message".
The text of the message can be an announcement, a prompt or an advice.
Accordingly the word "message" gets three different translations.
Otherwise one would have to rephrase the segment into:
"The display shows the text:"

Which is neutral and has only one translation.


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Marketing-Lang.  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:19
English to German
+ ...
On non-payment of 100% matches Jun 4, 2004

@ Narasimhan :
You don't know what you're missing
Seriously: Programs like Transit and, to a lesser extent, Trados offer a very supportive environment and improved productivity.

If your customers are unaware of the tools available, you should still plunge in: Money for nothing!

Just my 2 cents...


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 19:19
English to Czech
+ ...
Yes, 100% matches can be a problem Jun 5, 2004

Regarding the translation of 100% matches I would remark, that they not always are matches at all.


Yes, sometimes the translation of the same segment is different. It happens mostly with short segments. If the analysis shows X 100% matches and the number of words is close to X, there is a chance that many of them will have to be changed. But if the number of words is much higher, it means the segments are longer sentences and you will probably be able to use the CAT tool's suggestion. (Quality of the translation is another problem.)

As to your example, it's good to try to find a translation that can be used in all cases. It's usually possible in technical documents. It will save you a lot of work throughout the document.


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 19:19
English to Czech
+ ...
Yes, it is Jun 5, 2004

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:

By the way is it possible to use a CAT tool and keep the outsourcer not informed about it, as proposed by me above?


Of course it is. But I don't see why keep it a secret. I think you are just harming yourself by not using a CAT tool.


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:49
English to Tamil
+ ...
For the simple reason of avoiding unnecessary discussions Jun 5, 2004

More than that, I find it insulting that an outsourcer, who has no idea of a translation, arrogates himself to discuss with us professionals the difficulty or otherwise of the translation assignment in hand. May be I am old fashioned but I feel that our pride as serious professionals is involved.

If the outsourcer were to know that I am having a CAT tool, he is sure to ask for discounts, which I will not give, thereby leading to unnecessary arguments.

With the plethora of complaints against Trados or some other CAT tools, I hesitate before taking the plunge.

Regards,
N.Raghavan
Hynek Palatin wrote:
Of course it is. But I don't see why keep it a secret. I think you are just harming yourself by not using a CAT tool.


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Gabriela Abraham  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 12:19
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
100% matches and consistency Jun 12, 2004

Even if I find a 100% match in a TM I have to make sure that what I am translating is consistent with the TM, sometimes I find that the TM and the Data Base entry are different and I have to correct it, a few times I have found that the 100% match is a bad translation. This is extra work, I might as well translate it all by myself. Aside form translating I have to proofread the TM. It is unfair to charge less for 100% matches, we should be given a bonus for using CAT tools, not everyone invests in tools and trainning. Better trainned professionals should receive better payment and not the other way around.

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