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How to create/use a simple glossary – OmegaT or other apps?
Thread poster: BabelOn-line

BabelOn-line
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:40
English to French
+ ...
Oct 6, 2012

Hello All,

A bit of contextual info to start with: in our line of business, we have few repeated segments (we do mainly magazines and we normally do not have a lot of repeated sentences in our source files). We only use OmegaT for projects where a TM is helpful. And we normally work on Apple Macs - we have 1 PC laptop that we only use occasionally.

Now, we have a small project (in the tune of 15k words) for a global software company, but this could become a repeat job.

This is marketing stuff, again with very few repeated segments. However, it would be worth creating a glossary for some wordings that are used frequently (e.g. expressions like “fixed function devices", "verticals" (as in market niches), "digital signage" and suchlike). The idea is to save time, to be able to share a glossary between several translators and also to retain a glossary for future reference.

From what I have read on the Proz forum, it seems that OmegaT can't auto-create a glossary for short wordings (what i understand is called "propagation" and may be available with other applications).

So: from what i understand, using OmegaT will not really be worth it as it will not pick up short wordings. So far, we could not think of anything cleverer than opening and Excel document and manually feeding the entries in to a spreadsheet.

If anyone can advise us on a better way to create, feed and reuse our glossary, i'd be happy to get him or her a couple of rounds in any London pub!

Jean-Louis


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Tony M  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:40
Member
French to English
+ ...
Wordfast Oct 6, 2012

Like you, I find that most of my work involves few if any repeating segments — but plenty of repeating terminology!

So I started using Wordfast Classic, and despite my early resistance, wouldn't now be without it!

The free demo version is OK for use up to 500 TUs, so I guess if you just kept emptying the TM, you could just make use of its glossary feature! In fact, I believe you can also set it not to even add segments into the TM, which would probably suit you down to the ground.

The glossary file it produces is a simply tab-delimited .TXT file, so you can always access it from other software; I've often mused about copying it out to an .XLS for easier processing and then copying it back again, but so far never actually got round to trying that.

I think this could be a workable solution for your specific requirement.


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BabelOn-line
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:40
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Tony, sounds like a great idea Oct 6, 2012

Hi Tony


Merci pour ta réponse. Je viens de voir le site de WordFast et ça semble effectivement bien coller. En plus, ce petit projet est idéal pour démarrer.

Je vais donc m'y intéresser dès maintenant.

Merci encore pour cette réponse et bon WE

JLouis


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BabelOn-line
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:40
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Woopsie Oct 6, 2012

I have Office for Mac 2008... That's the only version that is not supported by Wordfast. MAy try it out on my old PC just to see.

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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:40
Finnish to French
Office 2011 for Wf Classic Oct 6, 2012

BabelOn-line wrote:
I have Office for Mac 2008... That's the only version that is not supported by Wordfast. MAy try it out on my old PC just to see.

If you are serious about using Wordfast Classic on Mac, do upgrade to Office 2011. There's a huge difference in performance compared to older supported versions. See the Wordfast Wiki for installation instructions.

In Wordfast Classic, you can add terminology on-the-fly with Ctrl+Alt+T: highlight source term, hit Ctrl+Alt+T, highlight target term, hit Ctrl-Alt+T.

Alternatively, you can use Wordfast Anywhere (browser-based, so works on Mac) or Wordfast Pro (Mac version available). Both also let you add terminology on-the-fly, so the process is a bit more cumbersome than with Classic.


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:40
Finnish to French
Limitation in Wordfast Classic demo mode Oct 6, 2012

Tony M wrote:
The free demo version is OK for use up to 500 TUs, so I guess if you just kept emptying the TM, you could just make use of its glossary feature! In fact, I believe you can also set it not to even add segments into the TM, which would probably suit you down to the ground.

Actually, the limit was increased from 500 to 1000 units with version 6.03. But you are correct, you don't even have to use a TM if you don't want to: just untick 'This TM is active' under the Translation Memory tab. However, storing your translations in a TM is a good idea for backup purposes: if Word closes unexpectedly (power cut, crash etc.), you will only lose the latest segment you were translated, as opposed to everything since the last time you saved the document.

Wordfast Anywhere works on Mac and has no limitation as to the size of TM's you can use, but adding terminology on-the-fly is not as fast as with Classic.


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Hans Lenting  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Member (2006)
German to Dutch
+ ...
CafeTran perhaps the most flexible CAT tool for term management Oct 6, 2012

BabelOn-line wrote:

If anyone can advise us on a better way to create, feed and reuse our glossary, i'd be happy to get him or her a couple of rounds in any London pub!


Since I'm a beer fan too, I'd like to give you some advice: Brewdog Trashy blonde and CafeTran. Not necessarily related. But seriously: CafeTran is a great tool for term management and adding on the fly. There are no other tools that offer so much flexibility and that many advanced terminology functions.

http://www.proz.com/forum/cafetran_support/233939-big_mama_or_big_papa.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j77aiMqDEwA


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:40
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Some comments about OmegaT Oct 6, 2012

BabelOn-line wrote:
However, it would be worth creating a glossary for some wordings that are used frequently (e.g. expressions like “fixed function devices", "verticals" (as in market niches), "digital signage" and suchlike). The idea is to save time, to be able to share a glossary between several translators and also to retain a glossary for future reference.


If you already have the list of source language terms, you can easily create an OmegaT glossary from it, because OmegaT's glossary format is a simple tab-delimited three-column text file.

If you don't have such a list and you're hoping to gather such a list through processing the source text files, allow me to say that such term extraction exercises rarely produce useful results, even if you use dedicated programs to extract the terms. The best way to extract terms is humanly.

From what I have read on the Proz forum, it seems that OmegaT can't auto-create a glossary for short wordings (what i understand is called "propagation" and may be available with other applications).


I'm not sure what you mean by "short wordings" or "auto-create" -- I know of no CAT tool that can create a glossary automatically.

The term "propagation" in the context of glossaries usually refer to inserting terms automatically into the current segment. You're right, OmegaT can't do that, but again you should not assume that such a feature is necessarily useful. It may sound very exciting in theory, but it is only useful for some language combinations or some types of text. I think the less technical the text, the less useful such automatic insertion of glossary matches become.

The only type of glossary insertion in OmegaT is using the mouse, unfortunately, using the TransTips feature. Some other CAT tools like Wordfast Classic offers glossary insertion using a keyboard shortcut or using the tab key. This certainly speeds things up, but only if there is a high number of glossary matches in each segment -- otherwise the speed increase is only a feeling.

So: from what i understand, using OmegaT will not really be worth it as it will not pick up short wordings. So far, we could not think of anything cleverer than opening and Excel document and manually feeding the entries in to a spreadsheet.


Again, I'm not sure what you mean by "short wordings". I can tell you that OmegaT's latest version does have the ability to add glossary entries from within the program, by selecting a source text word and pressing a shortcut.


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BabelOn-line
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:40
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Big thanks to you all, Tony, Dominique, Samuel and Hans Oct 7, 2012

Downloaded Wordfast, have revived an old copy of Word 2004 for Mac, and now giving it a go. Also found a guy selling an (apparently) road-legal, unopened version of Office 2011 for Mac on eBay. May indeed consider forking out for Mac 2011.

I like the idea that i can export the glossary, should i have to pass this job to someone else for help. With such IT stuff, when you have tweaked the glossary, translating becomes dead easy.

Thanks for the inputs and advice, most appreciated.

Jean-Louis


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:40
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
Anaphraseus Oct 8, 2012

Anaphraseus uses a simple glossary format (sourcetabtargettabcomment with comment optional) compatible both with OmegaT and Wordfast Classic. Its workflow is similar to Wordfast Classic and populating a glossary is very simple: make two text selections (one selection for source, one for translation) and hit Alt+E.

[Редактировалось 2012-10-08 08:44 GMT]


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BabelOn-line
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:40
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thx, Esperantisto Oct 8, 2012

Will give it a look. Problem is that, art the moment, i have no bilingual documents, i am creating glossaries entries as i progress into the translation.


What I am after is more a simple TM that would highlight the short technical wordings (e.g. "fixed function device" or "fully componentized" that i have already translated and show me what translation i already used.

OmegaT, which i normally use, cannot do that - if i understand well.

That's nothing complicated, it was simply to find if there was a more dynamic way to do this than creating a simple glossary on Excel.


Thanks for your help.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:40
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
What it looks like in OmegaT Oct 8, 2012

BabelOn-line wrote:
What I am after is more a simple TM that would highlight the short technical wordings (e.g. "fixed function device" or "fully componentized" that i have already translated and show me what translation i already used. ... OmegaT, which i normally use, cannot do that - if i understand well.


Here is what OmegaT can do (I changed the pane layout so that it fits better on the image):



OmegaT underlines the glossary match in the source text, and you can right-click such an underlined term and see the translation on the context menu, and if you select the translation on the context menu, it inserts the translation into the target field at the cursor position. In addition, the glossary entries are displayed in the glossary pane. I think you need to enable TransTips to make this work.


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:40
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
What is more dynamic to you? Oct 8, 2012


That's nothing complicated, it was simply to find if there was a more dynamic way to do this than creating a simple glossary on Excel.


Using OmegaT, in addition to its built-in glossary function, you can keep your glossary opened in a text editor and input entries on-the-fly. Just save the file, and OmegaT will pick newly added entries opening a next segment.


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BabelOn-line
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:40
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Brilliant, thanks Samuel & Esperantisto Oct 8, 2012

This is exactly what i was after all the time, thanks for taking the time to show this to me.

Must check this TransTip function/add-on.

I have tried to look up such a function in OmegaT, but being a newbie in TM, i did not even have any clue about what i was after – and how to call it.

Thanks a million for this. I can carry on using OmegaT, which is so far absolutely all i need.

Take care

Jean-Louis


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Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:40
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
OT to Samuel on posting images to the forum Oct 9, 2012

Hi Samuel, how did you manage to insert the graphic into your post? I have tried to do this in the past using the BBCode instructions (below this box), but it seemed that a URL was required, and I wanted to post an image from my own Desktop.

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