Quick survey for all CAT tools: how do you work with tags in your CAT tool?
Thread poster: Samuel Murray

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Apr 26, 2013

Hello everyone

This is a question for everyone who uses a CAT tool with tags. I'm curious to know how other translators deal with the tags.

A. When translating a new segment, do you...

1. insert or copy or move tags while you translate, OR
2. first translate the segment without tags, and then insert/copy/move the tags afterwards, before going to the next segment, OR
3. translate several segments without tags, and then go back and insert/copy/move the tags afterwards?

B. When editing a fuzzy match, and the tags are missing or incorrect, do you...

1. remove all tags and retag the segment from scratch, OR
2. move tags around one by one, OR
3. delete one or more tags in one place and add them later in another place?

C. Finally, whenever you work with tags, do you...

1. insert/copy/move tags using a keyboard shortcut, OR
2. insert/copy/move tags using your mouse, OR
3. insert/copy/move tags by copying/cutting and pasting it manually?

Thanks
Samuel



[Edited at 2013-04-26 13:40 GMT]


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Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:31
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
in memoQ... Apr 26, 2013

A. When translating a new segment, do you...

1. insert or copy or move tags while you translate, OR
2. first translate the segment without tags, and then insert/copy/move the tags afterwards, before going to the next segment, OR
3. translate several segments without tags, and then go back and insert/copy/move the tags afterwards?

= 2 (I use Ctrl+Shift+T to insert the tags in the correct places, one by one)

B. When editing a fuzzy match, and the tags are missing or incorrect, do you...

1. remove all tags and retag the segment from scratch, OR
2. move tags around one by one, OR
3. delete one or more tags in one place and add them later in another place?

= 1 (Ctrl+F8 removes all tags)

C. Finally, whenever you work with tags, do you...

1. insert/copy/move tags using a keyboard shortcut, OR
2. insert/copy/move tags using your mouse, OR
3. insert/copy/move tags by copying/cutting and pasting it manually?

= 1 (Ctrl+Shift+T inserts tags)

----------------------------*
Why do you want to know? Are you working on something specific or are you just plain curious?

Michael


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
In Wordfast Classic... Apr 26, 2013

I might as well answer my own survey (-:

A. When translating a new segment, do you...
1. insert or copy or move tags while you translate


In WFC, the shortcut for selecting a tag is Ctrl+Alt+left/right, and the shortcut for inserting the selected tag is Ctrl+Alt+down. When a tag was inserted, WFC remembers which one it was, and the next time you use Ctrl+Alt+left/right, it continues selecting tags from where it left off.

B. When editing a fuzzy match, and the tags are missing or incorrect, do you...
1. remove all tags and retag the segment from scratch


It depends on how dense the tag soup is, but if I foresee any difficulty with tag validation, I simply remove all the tags (Ctrl+Alt+X) and re-insert the tags using the keyboard shortcut. In rare instances where a segment contains 80% tags and 20% text, I will copy the source text into the target field and simply translate the text by overtyping (if that is possible, given the word order).

C. Finally, whenever you work with tags, do you...
1. insert/copy/move tags using a keyboard shortcut


Always, always, always a keyboard shortcut, unless I also want to copy some text from the source field and the surrounding tags are in easy to fix positions.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why do I ask? Apr 26, 2013

Michael Beijer wrote:
Why do you want to know? Are you working on something specific or are you just plain curious?


Well, in the OmegaT forum there was a discussion in which I realised that the way I work with tags is perhaps not the way that other translators consider "normal", particularly if their CAT tool does not support the way I work with tags. So I'm curious about how people do it (since I can only guess).


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Sarai Pahla (MD) MBChB
Germany
Local time: 09:31
Member (2012)
Japanese to English
+ ...
My answers in bold Apr 26, 2013

MemoQ

Samuel Murray wrote:
A. When translating a new segment, do you...

1. insert or copy or move tags while you translate, OR
2. first translate the segment without tags, and then insert/copy/move the tags afterwards, before going to the next segment, OR
3. translate several segments without tags, and then go back and insert/copy/move the tags afterwards?

B. When editing a fuzzy match, and the tags are missing or incorrect, do you...

1. remove all tags and retag the segment from scratch, OR
2. move tags around one by one, OR
3. delete one or more tags in one place and add them later in another place?


That's the closest to what I do - I generally work around the existing tags, but if necessary, I will delete them in one place and add them in another, provided they have no styles associated with them - obviously then I would keep them in the same place.

Samuel Murray wrote:
C. Finally, whenever you work with tags, do you...

1. insert/copy/move tags using a keyboard shortcut, OR
2. insert/copy/move tags using your mouse, OR
3. insert/copy/move tags by copying/cutting and pasting it manually?


[Edited at 2013-04-26 14:22 GMT]


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xxxnrichy
France
Local time: 09:31
French to Dutch
+ ...
My answers Apr 26, 2013

Short answer: copy source when no match (which includes all tags), and then translate the text between the tags. If necessary I do a slalom (it is much easier to move the text around the tags than to move/insert the tags themselves). I use the standard copy and paste shortcuts.
In case of fuzzy matches, I complete manually one by one, it's a pain.

By the way, for this reason I moved from WF Pro to SDL Trados 2011 last year, at least it is wysiwig for bold and italics, and for lots of other things too, so less tags. And I will keep WF Cl for Word files only, for speed reasons.

PS: in case of a tag soup I ask the agency to send me another file, but in most cases I choose my own tool and do my own conversion, backconversion and layout check.





[Modifié le 2013-04-26 14:58 GMT]


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Texte Style
Local time: 09:31
French to English
(Trados 2007 before) now DVX and Transit Apr 26, 2013

I like to paste the entire segment then replace the ST with my translation, working round the tags as far as possible.

When there are too many in a DV file I send it back and tell the PM to use the code zapper.
If that's not an option I sometimes just translate the sentence and stick all the tags at the end, then once the file has been exported to a nice friendly Word format I'll just quickly check the formatting, sometimes a word or two may need to be put in bold, but often it's a total mystery why there's a tag in there.

Probably not the best way of working with tags and of course the TM will not reflect how the sentence should appear in the target file but my opinion is that it's the words that are important in the TM, not the tags. I'm a wordsmith not a tagsmith!


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Paulinho Fonseca  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:31
Member (2011)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Working with tags Apr 26, 2013

Samuel,

What I have done so far is:

Copy tags from source to target. This ways I do not risk using wrong tags.
Then I translate segment.

I had some problems replacing tags before, with spacing before or after, specially when tag are too many. So, I started doing it this way.

Hope this helps.

Paulinho


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:31
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Answer below Apr 26, 2013

A. When translating a new segment, do you...

1. insert or copy or move tags while you translate, OR


B. When editing a fuzzy match, and the tags are missing or incorrect, do you...


2. move tags around one by one,


C. Finally, whenever you work with tags, do you...

1. insert/copy/move tags using a keyboard shortcut, OR


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 09:31
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
It varies Apr 26, 2013

In Studio 2011

I often copy the source segment with a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl/Insert) and translate around it, especially if the tags are around figures or a long name that is not to be changed.

Tags often come in pairs, and Studio is quite good about keeping them as pairs.

A. When translating a new segment, do you...

1. insert or copy or move tags while you translate, OR
2. first translate the segment without tags, and then insert/copy/move the tags afterwards, before going to the next segment, OR
3. translate several segments without tags, and then go back and insert/copy/move the tags afterwards?

Sometimes 2, as it may be easiest to mark a word or phrase and select the tags to go around it (keyboard shortcut)

Sometimes I insert the source segment and translate around the tags

B. When editing a fuzzy match, and the tags are missing or incorrect, do you...

1. remove all tags and retag the segment from scratch, OR
2. move tags around one by one, OR
3. delete one or more tags in one place and add them later in another place?

Either 1 or insert the source as for empty segments.

C. Finally, whenever you work with tags, do you...

1. insert/copy/move tags using a keyboard shortcut, OR
2. insert/copy/move tags using your mouse, OR
3. insert/copy/move tags by copying/cutting and pasting it manually?

Usually 1. a keyboard shortcut, though I may use the mouse initially to mark text.


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 10:31
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
"I did it my way" © :) Apr 26, 2013

Samuel Murray wrote:
This is a question...


A: 1 (If the tags are irrelevant or junk, I leave them at the end of the segment.
B: 1 (this way is just faster)
C: 1 and 2 (depends on the interface usability of the CAT-tool). Keyboard preferred.

[Редактировалось 2013-04-26 21:58 GMT]


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James McVay  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:31
Russian to English
+ ...
CodeZapper Apr 26, 2013

Does anyone use this handy little tool for cleaning up Word documents full of unnecessary "junk" tags?

The material I translate is full of them and my main customer DTPs everything in HTML anyway, so I can safely ignore them. But I wonder if anyone has experience with CodeZapper.


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Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 14:01
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
Copy source Apr 27, 2013

I always copy the source to the target area and translate around the tags. I do this even if there is a fuzzy match available. The reason is, it takes me longer to check that the tags in the fuzzy match are correct than to retranslate the whole thing again.

I move the tags around from their source positions only when this is absolutely necessary, as when otherwise the sentences would become ungrammatical.

I manually insert tags only when they are very few in number and there are no nested tags.

I follow this approach irrespective of the CAT tool I use, whether Trados, memoq or Across.


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xxxtrhanslator
Placing tags in CafeTran Apr 27, 2013

Hi Samuel,

I've made this video for you to show how I place tags in CafeTran: Cmd+click.

Hope this helps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGSOqCN02yA

Hans
Proud CafeTran user


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