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Workflow with lots of repetitions
Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Aug 29, 2013

I would like to hear what you do when you get a job with lots of files and most of the words are repetitions. This time it is 110 k total and 24 k new words, rest reps.
How to avoid reading all those reps when proofreading? How to avoid paying your proofreader for reps?
I know how to do it in Trados 2007, but I would like to use a more modern tool.
Thanks for your input!


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:13
English to French
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Merge in 1 file in Studio Aug 29, 2013

I usually merge the files in 1 file when creating the project in Studio, and make sure auto-propagation to confirmed segments is activated. This way if I make a change in one of the reps, confirming the segment will propagate the change to all the other segments.

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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
That's not the point Aug 29, 2013

Marie-Claude Falardeau wrote:

I usually merge the files in 1 file when creating the project in Studio, and make sure auto-propagation to confirmed segments is activated. This way if I make a change in one of the reps, confirming the segment will propagate the change to all the other segments.


Merging results in a very large file (11000 rows) and when exporting for external review the proofreader has to change each and every instance manually. Or do I overlook something?


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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:13
Member (2004)
English to Italian
just... Aug 29, 2013

send him the merged sdlxliff file... or maybe he hasn't got Studio?

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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
And they will read it all and charge for it Aug 29, 2013

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

send him the merged sdlxliff file... or maybe he hasn't got Studio?


Even if one reads the xliff-file, you never know if it the segment aupdated and ok or a rep from the first translation.
But mostly proofreaders read in Word.


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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:13
Member (2004)
English to Italian
If... Aug 29, 2013

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

send him the merged sdlxliff file... or maybe he hasn't got Studio?


Even if one reads the xliff-file, you never know if it the segment aupdated and ok or a rep from the first translation.
But mostly proofreaders read in Word.


you set up auto-propagation, then the segment and subsequent ones will be automatically updated... or am I missing something? I think there are ways in the Review mode to show updated segments? I'm not 100% sure, because I never reviewed a document like that in Studio...


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Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 11:13
Member
English to Hebrew
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Export Frequent Segments Aug 29, 2013

Under Project Settings > All Language Pairs > Batch Processing > Analyze Files > Export Frequent Segments.
This will create a SDLXLIFF file of all the frequent (based on the value you define) segments. Translate this file and send it for proofreading (by using the export for review feature). When it is returned, update the translation (using the update from external review feature) with any changes that were made by the reviewer.
Then proceed to update the TM with these repeated segments, pre-translate the files and set to lock these segments. Filter for unlocked files in Studio's Editor view and translate the rest of the text.

The only caveat is that the reviewer needs to use Studio too (or other Translation Environment Tool with good compatibility to Studio) in order to take advantage of this workflow. I don't think that it is possible to filter the segments that will be exported using the Export for external review feature.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How about other software? Aug 29, 2013

So this is settled for Studio. How do you handle the situation in other tools, I would like to ask.

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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Would that be unknown segments? Aug 29, 2013

Shai Nave wrote:

Under Project Settings > All Language Pairs > Batch Processing > Analyze Files > Export Frequent Segments.
This will create a SDLXLIFF file of all the frequent (based on the value you define) segments. Translate this file and send it for proofreading (by using the export for review feature). When it is returned, update the translation (using the update from external review feature) with any changes that were made by the reviewer.
Then proceed to update the TM with these repeated segments, pre-translate the files and set to lock these segments. Filter for unlocked files in Studio's Editor view and translate the rest of the text.

The only caveat is that the reviewer needs to use Studio too (or other Translation Environment Tool with good compatibility to Studio) in order to take advantage of this workflow. I don't think that it is possible to filter the segments that will be exported using the Export for external review feature.


Exporting unknown segments should deliver a file with all segments that are no 100% matches and one instance per segment.
But it does not seem to work, I had merged 82 files and the export-function just does not do anything.


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Simon Chiassai  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:13
English to French
+ ...
Using excel Aug 29, 2013

If you use Excel, you could do the following:

1. Copy your source text in an Excel file.
2. Filter duplicate cells as explained here.
3. Translate the resulting file (there should be no repetitions)
4. Get that file proofread.
5. align filtered source and proofread target
6. retranslate the original source file with the TM resulting from the alignment.

Although I have never tried it myself, I think it would work, but your text would lose all formatting. It might or might not be a problem, depending on what kind of document it is.

I hope this helps.


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:13
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Export frequent segments Aug 29, 2013

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

Shai Nave wrote:

Under Project Settings > All Language Pairs > Batch Processing > Analyze Files > Export Frequent Segments.
This will create a SDLXLIFF file of all the frequent (based on the value you define) segments. Translate this file and send it for proofreading (by using the export for review feature).


Exporting unknown segments should deliver a file with all segments that are no 100% matches and one instance per segment.
But it does not seem to work, I had merged 82 files and the export-function just does not do anything.


Shai's talking about export FREQUENT segments in Studio, not unknown ones in Trados 2007. I think it's a good solution, except for one problem. Your proofreader wouldn't see the text in context.

By the way, I think you can actually export the resulting sdlxliff for external review, so your proofreader wouldn't need to have Studio.


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LEXpert  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:13
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
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Proofreading reps? Aug 29, 2013

Are repetitions even a meaningful concept when it comes to proofreading? I've done many proofeading jobs in my career but have never been asked to disregard or discount repetitions when proofreading (except perhaps once, by a slightly clueless new PM whom I promptly educated), even for jobs with many repetitions and/or when the proofing is done in a CAT tool. Even though a tool has an autopropagation function, the autopropagated text can still be incorrect at any location, be it for reasons of context, computer glitch or incorrect settings.

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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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Agree with that in principle Aug 30, 2013

Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:

Are repetitions even a meaningful concept when it comes to proofreading? I've done many proofeading jobs in my career but have never been asked to disregard or discount repetitions when proofreading (except perhaps once, by a slightly clueless new PM whom I promptly educated), even for jobs with many repetitions and/or when the proofing is done in a CAT tool. Even though a tool has an autopropagation function, the autopropagated text can still be incorrect at any location, be it for reasons of context, computer glitch or incorrect settings.


But if the text is properly formatted, so that only proper sentences form a segment, each segment should be individual.
Its a question of pricing here.


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Jo Macdonald  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:13
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Not a good idea imo Aug 30, 2013

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

How to avoid reading all those reps when proofreading? How to avoid paying your proofreader for reps?


Hi Heinrich,
If there are say 80 thou reps and the proofreader is only going to see one segment of those 80 thou as one of 20 thou others, I don't think that's a good idea. When proofing a job you want to see it as a whole, finished work and not as parts.
Say there was a minor glitch in that one segment the proofreader checked and they didn't catch it or consider it to be that important as one of 20 thou others? When it's repeated 80 thousand times it might become much more relevant, and even be out of context in some cases.

In terms of pricing I'd say most people would accept a discount for such a repetitive job.

On the question of the auto-propagate feature in Studio, imo it can be a real waste of time and lead to pasting errors into segments that are properly translated so you need to go back and change them again. Personally I never use it and consider it to be almost as bad as a MT function.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Easy to say Aug 30, 2013

Jo Macdonald wrote:

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

How to avoid reading all those reps when proofreading? How to avoid paying your proofreader for reps?


Hi Heinrich,
If there are say 80 thou reps and the proofreader is only going to see one segment of those 80 thou as one of 20 thou others, I don't think that's a good idea. When proofing a job you want to see it as a whole, finished work and not as parts.
Say there was a minor glitch in that one segment the proofreader checked and they didn't catch it or consider it to be that important as one of 20 thou others? When it's repeated 80 thousand times it might become much more relevant, and even be out of context in some cases.

In terms of pricing I'd say most people would accept a discount for such a repetitive job.

On the question of the auto-propagate feature in Studio, imo it can be a real waste of time and lead to pasting errors into segments that are properly translated so you need to go back and change them again. Personally I never use it and consider it to be almost as bad as a MT function.


And if it is 10 000 segments repeated 8 times in average? Probably its a question of segments that are repeated in all of the 80 documents, so the proofreader will see the text once in its context in any case.
I share your view on the autopropagate function in Studio. The quality of TM searching in Studio is certainly lower than in old Trados.

In practice I would have no chance to get the job if I would charge for repetitions at my word rate, it would rise the price from 3500 to 8000 Euro and really reading all repetitions would push the deadline by at least a week. Not realistic at all. In fact it seems I wan't get this job at all even though I charged reps with 0%.

But I'm still curious to hear about other software than SDL. Perhaps I should put the question in special fora.


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