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CAT support
Thread poster: Gerard de Noord

Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:41
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
Oct 21, 2004

I was never much in favour of ProZ starting accompanying CAT Tools Support forums to start with and the Forum Topics list on the ProZ home page I just visited confirms my doubts. Nine Trados topics push away all the witty stuff that might have been posted today. I know I can change Views but I think it's a pity.

Regards,
Gerard


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:41
English to German
+ ...
Hands-on support vs. witty stuff Oct 21, 2004

Dear Gerard,
May I invite you to have a look at the Trados Support forum? What's happening there is members helping each other in solving their urgent problems. As that forum's moderator, I admit to not being objective in this respect, but I cannot see anything wrong in an active forum.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Aliseo Japan  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 16:41
Member
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
I agree Oct 21, 2004

Gerard de Noord wrote:

I was never much in favour of ProZ starting accompanying CAT Tools Support forums to start with and the Forum Topics list on the ProZ home page I just visited confirms my doubts. Nine Trados topics push away all the witty stuff that might have been posted today. I know I can change Views but I think it's a pity.

Regards,
Gerard


I cannot agree more. Trados problem postings are taking too much space in the Forum Topic List, obscuring other more important topics for translators; if there are too many problems related to the usage of Trados, and if in Proz.com they still think that Trados deserves such a large space in their Web Site, may I suggest that a separate section be created alsewhere. The same, of course, should be done for all the other CAT tools.

Mario Cerutti


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I couldn't disagree more Oct 21, 2004

You both do not find Trados questions important.
OK, your point.
But then someone else could come and say, he does not like kudoz, or he does not like discussing about beeing established...
The importance of Trados (and other CATs) is growing continously. You cannot ignore his development, if you want to stay on the market in the next five or ten years.
The more on posts in Trados (CAT) section shows, that more and more people are starting to use this tools. Why should they be not allowed to ask questions, when they have problems. No one forces you to read or answer them. But if someday you should have a question, then you know a good place to post it.

ProZ is for translators with everything, what belongs to this profession. So why not discuss our problems here?

Regards
Jerzy


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Aliseo Japan  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 16:41
Member
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
Please read my previous posting better Oct 22, 2004

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

You both do not find Trados questions important.
OK, your point.
But then someone else could come and say, he does not like kudoz, or he does not like discussing about beeing established...
The importance of Trados (and other CATs) is growing continously. You cannot ignore his development, if you want to stay on the market in the next five or ten years.
The more on posts in Trados (CAT) section shows, that more and more people are starting to use this tools. Why should they be not allowed to ask questions, when they have problems. No one forces you to read or answer them. But if someday you should have a question, then you know a good place to post it.

ProZ is for translators with everything, what belongs to this profession. So why not discuss our problems here?

Regards
Jerzy


Nobody is saying that CAT tools are not important and that members should not be allowed to ask questions. What I am saying is that Trados technical questions are taking too much real estate in the forum section, most of them regarding only problems with this software. Should this trend continue and given the limited space currently allowed to the forum section there will soon be no space for other and perhaps more important questions regarding the very core of translating.

What in fact I have suggested is to dedicate a different space to the CAT software topics, so that all those interested in Trados (and other CAT tools as well hopefully) can happily go there and the forum space in the home page, which in my opinion is too restricted now, will leave more room for other more "universal" topics. Doing this it would also stop giving the impression that Proz.com is a Trados-biased web site...

Cheers

Mario Cerutti


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 09:41
English to French
+ ...
Rather bad imago for trados, so many problems Oct 22, 2004

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

The more on posts in Trados (CAT) section shows, that more and more people are starting to use this tools.



I would say it just shows how this tool sucks. You never have half of that number of questions with others CAT tools.

Just seeing how many problems get the trados users definitely confirm my decision never to use it.


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:41
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
I agree that Trados support is taking too much space on the home page Oct 22, 2004

Of course, I have nothing against the fact that Trados support becomes one of the busiest forums and members obviously find it very helpful, however, from the perspective of someone who is NOT a Trados user, seeing half of the forum topics displayed being Trados support makes a ...hmm, quite bad impression that I just came to the Trados website - since I'm not a user, I'm not interested in that!

The 20 recent topics displayed on the home page depend on member profiles: we can see, for example, only recent posts on these non-English forums which we marked as working languages or languages of interest. We don’t see all non-English forums (and quite rightly). Perhaps it would be possible to display Trados Support only to those members who marked Trados as their tool in profiles?

Trados users among us already replied quite vigorously defending the display of Trados support, however, please think also about those of us who are not Trados funs – how would you feel if half of forum topics are, say, in Zulu?

Magda


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:41
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Customized display of threads related to CAT tools Oct 22, 2004

Magda Dziadosz wrote:
...
Perhaps it would be possible to display Trados Support only to those members who marked Trados as their tool in profiles?
...


Good idea. The mechanism would be very similar to what is already available for the working languages.
All members currently see in the home page only threads referring to their languages. The same concept could be applied to the CAT tools listed in their page.
It is a clever suggestion. Thanks.

Gianfranco


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:41
German to English
+ ...
CAT support Oct 22, 2004

Gerard,

The cause of the problem can be seen here:

http://www.proz.com/cat

TRADOS 6.5 Freelance: 8,530 users,
OmegaT: 40 users.

So inevitably, there are going to be more support requests for Trados. The obvious answer is to encourage a further 8,490 colleagues to use OmegaT. This will redress the imbalance a little (perhaps not completely, since OmegaT appears to be easier to use than Trados ).

Marc
www.omegat.org

[Edited at 2004-10-22 14:01]


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Klaus Herrmann  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:41
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Please do not restrict visibility to Trados users Oct 22, 2004

Even though I'm not a Trados user (I'm using DVX which continues to be ignored in the Tools section of this site), I do want to read about Trados. No matter what tool one prefers (which seems to be more of a religious debate than a factual one), I want to make informed decisions, I want to know about pitfalls and potential problems in case I can't avoid using Trados and finally, some future version of Trados X just might offer features (and support) that outweigh the things I don't like about Trados. Like it or not, Trados is an important tool of the trade.

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xxxTadzio
English to Spanish
I've learned a lot from 'Trados support' forum... Oct 22, 2004

First, I think Trados is the best CAT tool, universally accepted.
And, last, I've learned from other colleagues and Moderators how to solve things, without wasting time on the Trados Help, in the EASIEST way in plain words. I mean, the words any non-expert PC user can understand.
Please, keep it that way.
Tadzio.


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:41
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Customization, not restriction Oct 22, 2004

Klaus Herrmann wrote:

Even though I'm not a Trados user (I'm using DVX which continues to be ignored in the Tools section of this site), I do want to read about Trados. No matter what tool one prefers (which seems to be more of a religious debate than a factual one), I want to make informed decisions, I want to know about pitfalls and potential problems in case I can't avoid using Trados and finally, some future version of Trados X just might offer features (and support) that outweigh the things I don't like about Trados. Like it or not, Trados is an important tool of the trade.


Dear Klaus,

if the proposal is accepted it would be not a restriction (the complete forum would remain accessible as it is now) but simply a less intrusive presence on the Home page.

The mechanism is already available for the forums in languages not included in your languages of interest, it could make sense to extend it to the software tools of interest. That's all.

Gianfranco


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Klaus Herrmann  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:41
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Now that makes sense Oct 22, 2004

Gianfranco Manca wrote:
Customization, not restriction


Now that makes sense, Gianfranco, thank you. As long as I don't need to add Trados to my profile for the forum tracking to work...


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:41
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
support requests doesn't necessarily mean bad tool Oct 22, 2004

Jerzy Czopik wrote:
The more on posts in Trados (CAT) section shows, that more and more people are starting to use this tools.


lien wrote:
I would say it just shows how this tool sucks. You never have half of that number of questions with others CAT tools.

Just seeing how many problems get the trados users definitely confirm my decision never to use it.


MarcPrior wrote:

The cause of the problem can be seen here:
http://www.proz.com/cat
TRADOS 6.5 Freelance: 8,530 users,
OmegaT: 40 users.
So inevitably, there are going to be more support requests for Trados. The obvious answer is to encourage a further 8,490 colleagues to use OmegaT. This will redress the imbalance a little (perhaps not completely, since OmegaT appears to be easier to use than Trados ).
Marc
www.omegat.org


Marc's comment above is very valid. My recent survey work on the number of TM users per TM tool indicates that Trados has sold 70,000 licenses over the past 20 years. Need to keep in mind that lots of those licenses are certainly occasional users in an enterprise solution.
A more valid range of regular daily users of any TM tool is mainly seen in such help forums, which for Trados are in the 10,000 vicinity. For Wordfast, there are about 3500 regular users on forums. Same for Deja Vu. Transit and SDLX seem to each show somewhere in the area of 1000-2000 users each.

Having managed a software test team, support team and software training team over the past few years for telecom enterprise-level software that is now beginning to be used by hundreds of users in each company, I have discovered that the number of bug reports coming from customers is growing astronomically compared to the already many bug reports issued during internal, subsystem and integration test cycles.
Why? Because real users are now using the tool for their jobs. As a result, hundreds/thousands of hidden bugs of all shapes, sizes and kinds, undetected even by dozens of test team members, are now being discovered. And usability testing is often the least and/or last tested area.
The perspective in the R&D division at my company is that a low number of support requests and bug reports simply means that the tool isn't yet being used by enough end-users. And when it is, the team has better be ramped up to support them, which is the case now.

Jeff


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Aliseo Japan  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 16:41
Member
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
Unicersally accepted... Oct 22, 2004

Tadzio wrote:

First, I think Trados is the best CAT tool, universally accepted.
And, last, I've learned from other colleagues and Moderators how to solve things, without wasting time on the Trados Help, in the EASIEST way in plain words. I mean, the words any non-expert PC user can understand.
Please, keep it that way.
Tadzio.


or universally imposed?

Mario Cerutti


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