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Can we speak and compare the features of the Cat Tools instead of the Cat Tools themselves
Thread poster: drevetph

drevetph  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:50
English to French
+ ...
Oct 29, 2014

Hello everybody

Comparing cat tools is really an hassle.

I would like to open a discusion focused on the features we can expect from a cat tools instead of speaking about a specific cat tool.

1) The first step will be to identify the features from all the tools.

2) The second step will be to build a table to discuss the pros and the cons of the main tools regarding a specific feature


Features with can be for example:

- Propagate feature: a translation propagated to the next segments
- Autocompletion feature: (from glossaries, from untranslatable, working, not working, etc.)
- MT feature: (with a plugin, working or not, etc.
- Pdf conversion feature
- Management of the tags: format tag, of inline tag, etc
- Grammar check feature: (chunspell, microsoft word, prolexis, review tool, user dictionnary, etc.
- Spelling check feature
- Revision management feature:
- Import reviewed/prooreaded document to actualise the TM
- QA feature: easy to adjust, accurate, punctuation, etc.

As we are working with features for the translation process (and not with company ads), may be an overview of what we can expect from a cat tools will be a good start to discuss the topic.

Waiting for your contribution.

Best regards
Philippe Drevet

[Edited at 2014-10-29 10:51 GMT]


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:20
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Does this make sense? Oct 29, 2014

Dear Philippe,

I'm not sure whether your suggestion will work. At least the major software products will probably not differ very much regarding the features they offer. It's rather the way those features are implemented and how well they actually work that makes the difference.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're aiming at.

Erik


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neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
Too much information Oct 29, 2014

For me, most CAT tools offer too many features. I prefer a stripped down approach in my work. Less is more. For example, while spellchecking is useful, I don't need a "grammar checker" and I don't think a competent target language native speaker translator should have any real issues with "grammar".

In fact, I don't understand, need or use half of the points cited above:

- Propagate feature: a translation propagated to the next segments I DON 'T USE THIS FEATURE
- Autocompletion feature: (from glossaries, from untranslatable, working, not working, etc.) CAN'T GET THIS TO WORK ON MY CAT TOOL. NOT BOTHERED.
- Management of the tags: format tag, of inline tag... I DON'T UNDERSTAND/USE THIS FEATURE
- Grammar check feature: (chunspell, microsoft word, prolexis, review tool, user dictionnary, etc.
- Revision management feature: I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS
- Import reviewed/prooreaded document to actualise the TM - I DON'T UNDERSTAND/ DO THIS
- QA feature: easy to adjust, accurate, punctuation, etc. NOR THIS



[Edited at 2014-10-29 08:58 GMT]

Notwithstanding the above,and whether or not they are shortcomings, I still make a living from translation.

[Edited at 2014-10-29 08:59 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I agree, but we had it... it was called Cat Fight Oct 29, 2014

drevetph wrote:
I would like to open a discusion focused on the features we can expect from a CAT tools instead of speaking about a specific CAT tool.


Yes, the current "Software Comparison Tool" (SCT) is product-based, not feature-based like the old Cat Fight used to be. In the old Cat Fight, one could select a feature (e.g. glossaries) and then see how different CAT tools differ from each other with reference to just that one feature. In the new SCT, one can only compare actual products with each other, and the comparison tables don't really tell the user much about which features the tools share, don't share, or share in different ways.

ProZ.com has made it clear that they will not bring back the Cat Fight. Someone will have to re-create it off-site.

neilmac wrote:
In fact, I don't understand, need or use half of the points cited above...


Exactly. Why should you be forced (in a CAT comparison) to read about features that you are not interested in? Why should you not be able to select only those features that you really need, and compare the tools based on only those features?


[Edited at 2014-10-29 09:04 GMT]


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Merab Dekano  Identity Verified
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I go with the market, not agains it Oct 29, 2014

drevetph wrote:



1) The first step will be to identify the features from all the tools.

2) The second step will be to build a table to discuss the pros and the cons of the main tools regarding a specific feature




The problem is, you cannot buy features. You will have to buy the tool itself.

I seriously tested Trados and memoQ before making the decision to buy. I liked more the latter than the former. I have to admit that Trados is more "powerful" tool, but do I need this "power" (I am doing mostly legal and business texts)? No, I do not.

Call me conformist, slave, coward, you name it. I decided to go for Trados. Main reason being the wide presence of the tool in our industry. I go with the market, not against it. If most of my customers use Trados, and strongly encourage me to use it (not sure why, though; most of the time, I only use "translate single document" path), I am all for it.

Do I like it? No. Now, honestly, it does the job and that is all what matters to me.


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drevetph  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:50
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Grammar Check Oct 29, 2014

Hello

When it comes to check 15,000 segments of your translation at 1Am, it can help to have some help. This is not a question of knowledge but of energy.

Best regards
Philippe Drevet


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drevetph  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:50
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
About Cat Fight Oct 29, 2014

Hello Samuel


Thank you very much for your post about cat fight.

It's exactly what I was searching for but it doesn't exist anymore.


Best regards
Philippe Drevet


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drevetph  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:50
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Just to start - autocompletion feature Oct 29, 2014

Hello


I have just read about the autowrite feature in Déjavu (Atril).

Is it comparable to the predictive typing and autopick feature in MemoQ ?

Is there any similar features in other tools (wordfas, trados, omega, across) ?

I grab this on Internet

Wordfast Classic : Autocomplete

"Whenever the AC drop-down list suggests to complete what you started to type, you can continue typing and ignore the suggestion, or press Enter to use the suggestion. Suppose the source segment contains proper names like Zbigniew Brzeziński or Grossbliederstroff: AC will suggest those names as soon as a capital A or G is typed"


Thanks a lot for yours contributions

Best regards
Philippe Drevet



[Edited at 2014-10-29 10:58 GMT]


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Meta Arkadia
Local time: 04:20
English to Indonesian
+ ...
CafeTran Oct 29, 2014

I have just read about the autowrite feature in Déjavu (Atril).




Works for more than one word, that is, after you hit Return (Enter) to accept the suggestion, CafeTran will suggest the next word, and so on. And from the first segment on. And the beauty of it is, that you don't have to create lists or whatever, the suggestions are based on your resources you connected to, like the Project File, TMX files, tab deleted text files for glossaries.

Cheers,

Hans


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Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:20
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
AFAIK, CafeTran currently has the best auto-completion implementation Oct 29, 2014

"Auto-completion
CafeTran feeds its auto-complete engine from various resources: TM fragments, glossary matches, online machine translation output and typed words (on-the-fly!). You can remove incorrect words or expressions by selecting them in the auto-completion pop-up window or by using the Ctrl+Shift+R shortcut." (http://cafetran.wikidot.com/definitions )

See also: http://cafetran.wikidot.com/using-auto-completion

+

http://www.proz.com/forum/memoq_support/255512-predictive_writing_memoq_vs_autowrite_deja_vu.html

Michael


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David Turner  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:20
French to English
+ ...
I think you make a valid point... Oct 29, 2014

Most CAT tools have the features you mention but the way they are implemented often differ significantly.

drevetph wrote:
I have just read about the autowrite feature in Déjavu (Atril).
Is it comparable to the predictive typing and autopick feature in MemoQ ?


Although still not perfect, I personally find that DVX3's AutoWrite feature is superior to memoQ's. It works straight out of the box as soon as you start typing with no need for "training" on a "muse"(existing TM) as in the case of memoQ's Predictive typing or on a TM of a substantial size like like SDL Studio's AutoSuggest.

AutoWrite tends to be more responsive than Predictive typing. For example, it will propose subsegments like "as soon as the work is completed" as soon as you type "a" whereas with memoQ's Predictive typing you'd typically have to type "as soon as the work is c..." before it proposes "completed".


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MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 23:20
Member (2005)
Italian to German
+ ...
It depends what you are going to do Nov 7, 2014

One must differentiate between feature gimmicks and really useful features that work to a large extend and flawlessly. I have examined the 5, 6 most complete CATs on the market, no one fully keeps to my personal requirements as for real time saving and simplicitity of use. I personally work with 3 different CAT tools, although I own more of them.

Some CATs will excel with some feature but fall pretty short with others ones, and just by coincidence (or is it a complot?), all these 5, 6 CATs will excel in different aspects.

So it all comes to what you want to do. If you are impressed by the Auto-Completion feature, you may fall short if a client asks you to translate or review large files for the upcomming monthes, having a special format where it's crucial to have an exact preview at disposal, source and translation side-by-side.

You may have chosen a CAT because of several features that you deem best for you, but then you realize that you have huge databases that this CAT cannot handle because of its slow engine. (For this aspect, only 3 CAT tools currently are OK IMO).

The list of other such examples are endless, no CAT will satisfy you in every aspect, so making extended feature discussions is only useful to know what's the state of art today, but they won't fit for every situation.

Mike


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MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 23:20
Member (2005)
Italian to German
+ ...
MemoQ must fix the Predictive Typing Nov 7, 2014

David Turner wrote:

Although still not perfect, I personally find that DVX3's AutoWrite feature is superior to memoQ's.


I'm sorry to say that the MemoQ "Predictive Typing" and "Autopick" are broken (currently). These feature will only show single words, not phrases. Typing faster single words is not much of a time saving.
But then, MemoQ will show features (term extraction, simplicity in managing termbases etc.) that other CAT tools lack (see my post above).

It's big time for MemoQ to concentrate on fixing the existing features before introducing new ones that makes the howle program more and more unstable and complex.

Mike


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Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:20
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
auto-complete should suggest multi-word phrases! Nov 7, 2014

MikeTrans wrote:

David Turner wrote:

Although still not perfect, I personally find that DVX3's AutoWrite feature is superior to memoQ's.


I'm sorry to say that the MemoQ "Predictive Typing" and "Autopick" are broken (currently). These feature will only show single words, not phrases. Typing faster single words is not much of a time saving.
But then, MemoQ will show features (term extraction, simplicity in managing termbases etc.) that other CAT tools lack (see my post above).

It's big time for MemoQ to concentrate on fixing the existing features before introducing new ones that makes the howle program more and more unstable and complex.

Mike


That is a very important point made by David:
AutoWrite tends to be more responsive than Predictive typing. For example, it will propose subsegments like "as soon as the work is completed" as soon as you type "a" whereas with memoQ's Predictive typing you'd typically have to type "as soon as the work is c..." before it proposes "completed".

Thankfully, CafeTran does this right: typing "a" will propose subsegments like "as soon as the work is completed". In CafeTran, you can also remove a suggested term or phrase from the auto-complete drop-down lists by selecting it and clicking a keyboard shortcut. This can be very useful in a long text where the same incorrect suggestion keeps popping up.

Michael


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Wojciech_
Poland
Local time: 23:20
English to Polish
+ ...
All very nice Nov 27, 2014

Believe me, I would like to be convinced to Cafetran and be one of its enthusiasts, because it seems to be packed with lots of interesting and useful features... but... why does it have to be so user unfriendly?
I have tried it at least 10 times, hoping that a new version would introduce some user-friendliness, but no luck, so far.
First of all, it lacks clear project window, where you can select several TMs and glossaries.
Secondly, when you select a document to translate, it's painfully slow...
Thirdly, in the main view it lacks drag and drop feature, where you could set and adjust all the windows the way you would like it to.
When you close your resources (for example Google Translate) there's no way to open them again (or I haven't found it yet).
Another problem is with pasting codes for Machine Translation - it simply doesn't work and you need to write the codes character by character. There, unfortunately, seem to be dozens of such smaller or bigger glitches...
Don't get me wrong - I'm not here to criticize. I think the developer of CT is doing a very good job, especially that he does it all by himself, but it doesn't seem to be enough to pack hundreds of features to software which has serious flaws as far as UI is concerned.
I'd love to love this CAT, but not now... maybe when it has UI and Project window similar to that of MemoQ...


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