| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Trados, Wordfast...I can't understand them!!! Thread poster: GRAZIA MUSUMECI
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Tony M
France
Local time: 02:52
Member
French to English
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SITE LOCALIZER | Learning fast! | Jan 13, 2007 |
Spurred on by this thread (thanks, Grazia!), I decided to have another try with W/f, and light is slowly beginning to dawn!
Having oriignally printed out and thoroughly studied the manual (several versions back), I felt I had a basic understanding, though some elementary points still escaped me.
This time, I decided to try following the training package, and when I had gone far enough to get the general idea, I tried it out in earnest. I found a number of things that ma... See more Spurred on by this thread (thanks, Grazia!), I decided to have another try with W/f, and light is slowly beginning to dawn!
Having oriignally printed out and thoroughly studied the manual (several versions back), I felt I had a basic understanding, though some elementary points still escaped me.
This time, I decided to try following the training package, and when I had gone far enough to get the general idea, I tried it out in earnest. I found a number of things that made a big difference:
1) Some of the things in the training package don't in fact work by default as it claims, which is why it doesn't at first seem to make proper sense; once you realize that, and find out how to make them work, it starts doing what it is meant to!
2) It didn't actually say anywhere "you need to start each project by either opening an existing or creating a new Translation Memory AND glossary(ies)" — understanding that helped a lot! I think the documentation ought to be re-written by someone with no prior knowledge, who like me has to find out the hard way, and establish better priorities of what it is vital to know / do first. That way it really would be an "Idiot's Guide"!
(As a matter of fact, when one of my customers said "We want an Idiot's Guide written, and we immediately thought of you", I didn't know whether to be flattered — or insulted!)
3) It isn't actually as clever as I though it was meant to be, so both the computer and I had been dumbly sitting there waiting for one of us to do something! It turns out you have to go through and teach it terms for the glossary one by one as you encounter them (obvious, now I know!) — this meant that the first document I came to translate was abominably slow — not least because the glossary entry system is appallingly unergonomic
4) Having gone to all the trouble of entering these terms into the glossary, actually using them in my translation isn't a bit intuitive, I found it clumsy and time consuming; in short, it was a darned sight quicker just to retype the word or term. In fact, I have a personal pre-treatment programme that works much better, which simply does search-&-replace for a whole list of words (i.e. a glossary) before I even start translating; this does indeed save a great deal of time.
5) I have encountered a problem with W/f that seems all too easy to bring about, and disastrously difficult to put right: you can get into a situation with the markers that reverses source and target segments; the whole doc from that point on then goes "out of sync", and I spent ages finding how to get out of it.
6) Another "problem" is that it seems impossible to go back and extend a segment once you've accepted it; again, an easy mistake to make, and a very long-winded process to get round it.
In all, although I hugely admire the general intuitiveness and user-friendliness, already on only a very short trial, I have fallen foul of a couple of slips that are deceptively easy to make, but devilishly difficult to put right.
I think I'll stick to my pencil and paper for the time being, till the software can work as fast as I can!
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| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 19:52
English to Russian
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| Not a training problem | Jan 13, 2007 |
One don't have to be a rocket scientist to learn CAT tools. TRADOS is a bit more complicated, and unreasonably so. Mostly the matter of patience. Wordfast is easy to tame, at least at the basic level. I still have it, free. At a gun point I'd prefer it over Metatexis...
On top of all, I don't want my file/segment to get corrupted or Word to freeze 2 hours before the deadline...
I'm still with you, Tony!
Tony, on a personal note - I have never received an ... See more One don't have to be a rocket scientist to learn CAT tools. TRADOS is a bit more complicated, and unreasonably so. Mostly the matter of patience. Wordfast is easy to tame, at least at the basic level. I still have it, free. At a gun point I'd prefer it over Metatexis...
On top of all, I don't want my file/segment to get corrupted or Word to freeze 2 hours before the deadline...
I'm still with you, Tony!
Tony, on a personal note - I have never received an for my last email where my kitties and I were thanking you for your phone calls! Maybe you didn't get it. That would be awful. In such case, thank you again, very-very much. The family is all here, safe and sound. BTW, not a single soul looked at the papers or checked the chips at CDG! ▲ Collapse
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GRAZIA MUSUMECI wrote:
...I've been working with MetaTexis for 2 days now, and I've got great results, so far.
And especially, I haven't gone crazy!
It is simple to understand, simple to use and it helps a lot.
Don't you think that your progress with Metatexis is just the result of your effort and some time spent already with wordfast or trados?
Perhaps you were at that transit point (where quantity of time spent into learning of CATs transforms into quality of knowledge and understanding), when turned to Metatexis. One or two hours more with wordfast and you could have been talking about miracle of the WF tamed now.
You will smile but my experience was totally reverse. I spent 3-4 useless hours with Metatexis (my first CAT ever touched) and after that switched to wordfast! :0) And I am 100% confident that my unsuccessful experince with Metatexis contributed to my Wordfast and Trados skills.
| | | | NMR (X)
France
Local time: 02:52
French to Dutch
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| Wordfast was my first (and only) CAT | Jan 13, 2007 |
It took two hours to learn the basic functions. The next day I delivered my first translations.
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Sergei Tumanov wrote:
Don't you think that your progress with Metatexis is just the result of your effort and some time spent already with wordfast or trados?
Perhaps you were at that transit point (where quantity of time spent into learning of CATs transforms into quality of knowledge and understanding), when turned to Metatexis. One or two hours more with wordfast and you could have been talking about miracle of the WF tamed now.
I can talk about my own experience. I couldn't have get any prior experience from Wordfast as I couldn't make head or tail about it. I couldn't even know where to start!
With Metatexis, it was a breeze, so easy, so simple.
| | | | Marc P (X) 
Local time: 02:52
German to English
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Sergei Tumanov wrote:
You will smile but my experience was totally reverse. I spent 3-4 useless hours with Metatexis (my first CAT ever touched) and after that switched to wordfast! :0) And I am 100% confident that my unsuccessful experince with Metatexis contributed to my Wordfast and Trados skills.
... and I suspect that your experience is quite common, Sergei.
Metatexis has a very enthusiastic user base, so it is obviously quite possible to use it effectively. You tried it, but gave up before making satisfactory progress.
With perhaps 10 or 15 tools on the market (more, if you are prepared to dig around), users have to make some kind of choice. Whether the product will actually enable them to get jobs is a major factor for many people (hence the success of Trados - how often do you read "Translator must have Metatexis"?).
Often, though, users simply try the demonstration versions of two or three products before making their choice, and quickly abandon a product if the going seems hard. The tool chosen is then often the one which seemed easiest to use at the outset. Yet a tool which is easy to use at the beginning is not necessarily the best one in the long run, in terms either of ease of use or of features and performance. A tool really needs to be used for several jobs before its benefits can be appreciated, or for that matter its drawbacks recognized.
Marc
| | | | | That's unfair | Jan 14, 2007 |
"Whether the product will actually enable them to get jobs is a major factor for many people (hence the success of Trados - how often do you read "Translator must have Metatexis"?). "
Exactly! This is very unfair, in my opinion!
I can DECIDE to use Trados or whatever, whether I like to work with it. I hate the fact that I AM FORCED to use Trados (or whatever) just because all firms/clients ask for it.
I read of a Russian translator who told his clients he used Tra... See more "Whether the product will actually enable them to get jobs is a major factor for many people (hence the success of Trados - how often do you read "Translator must have Metatexis"?). "
Exactly! This is very unfair, in my opinion!
I can DECIDE to use Trados or whatever, whether I like to work with it. I hate the fact that I AM FORCED to use Trados (or whatever) just because all firms/clients ask for it.
I read of a Russian translator who told his clients he used Trados...but he used an unknown Tool instead...Well, NOBODY ever noticed the difference. And he got all jobs and he got all compliments and congratulations for his skills in using Trados...and he had NEVER USED IT!
This shows it is just fashion!
Now, listen....I'm not criticizing Trados, I don't say it doesn't work, or it is not good. I do believe it IS a great tool, for those who can use it. But I hate the fact you're almost forced to buy it "because they say so".
What's wrong with Wordfast, SDLX, Deja Vu or MetaTexis then????
Grazia
[Edited at 2007-01-14 12:08] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oliver Walter
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:52
German to English
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| Trados, Wordfast and TM in general | Jan 14, 2007 |
GRAZIA MUSUMECI wrote:
Now, listen....I'm not criticizing Trados, I don't say it doesn't work, or it is not good. I do believe it IS a great tool, for those who can use it. But I hate the fact you're almost forced to buy it "because they say so".
What's wrong with Wordfast, SDLX, Deja Vu or MetaTexis then????
br>
I suspect what's wrong is simply the fact that they are not Trados. The agency or direct client may request Trados because they think it's the only application that does that particular job, or they believe is it the "industry standard" and therefore must be used. Possibly the word is a generic name for them (like Hoover or Sellotape) when what they really mean is "translation memory tool [that can export in TMX format]".
I read of a Russian translator who told his clients he used Trados...but he used an unknown Tool instead...Well, NOBODY ever noticed the difference. And he got all jobs and he got all compliments and congratulations for his skills in using Trados...and he had NEVER USED IT!
This shows it is just fashion!
He may well have used Wordfast. I've seen one or two stories about WF users claiming that they use Trados, and their client not knowing that it was really WF.
I think the significant benefits of TM (translation memory) tools are not only that they recycle previous translations: before they do even that, they do the segmenting for you, thereby making it less likely that you will accidentally omit bits of the text. This is a particular danger when you are translating a text that contains a list of several nearly identical lines.
In other words, you can use the TM program simply as a means telling you "here's the first segment; translate it"; "now this one" etc.
BTW, for those who don't yet know: Wordfast does not have a "free" and a "paid for" version. There is just one version that can be downloaded and used free of charge and will work as long as the TM database does not have more than 500 segment pairs; then it stops using the TM unless you have a licence. The licence is not portable because it depends (I think) on the serial numbers of some of the hardware in your computer. However, the WF team will give you a second licence to use, for example on your laptop as well as your desktop PC for no extra charge, provided your licence is not more than three years old.
Oliver
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| what prevents you to do the same thing? | Jan 14, 2007 |
...
I read of a Russian translator who told his clients he used Trados...but he used an unknown Tool instead...Well, NOBODY ever noticed the difference. And he got all jobs and he got all compliments and congratulations for his skills in using Trados...and he had NEVER USED IT!
[Edited at 2007-01-14 12:08]
Cheese for pizza crashed on a classic grater vs. crashed by power tool from Moulinex. Is there any difference for a final customer? ;0)
| | | | Janis Abens
Latvia
Local time: 03:52
Swedish to English
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| Amazing, Has anyone tried Deja Vu X? Dragon NatSpeak? | Jan 19, 2007 |
I recently tried to use Trados which was a disaster IMHO for a newbie. When I started out, I got a trial license for Deja Vu X from Atril, it was easy as pie to understand, get started etc. compared to Trados. I use Voice Recognition also, it's been around a few years now. Works very well
My question is if one can make a living translating with paper and pencil? What is the daily throughput, ergonomy etc like?
/j
[quote]Tony M wrote:
Spurred on by this thread (thanks, Grazia!), I decided to have another try with W/f, and light is slowly beginning to dawn!
I think I'll stick to my pencil and paper for the time being, till the software can work as fast as I can!
| | | | John Di Rico
France
Local time: 02:52
Member (2006)
French to English
| Download, use, and attend a training session | Jan 22, 2007 |
Hello,
Thought I would add my two cents...
I downloaded Wordfast and the training guides on day one. On day two, I took a client's text (still waiting for confirmation) and decided to try out Wordfast--that way I could eventually get paid while learning!
I continued to use Wordfast for 6 months. Then I attended my first training session. Though I knew quite a bit more about the software than the other participants, I learned many little things I had glossed over on my ow... See more Hello,
Thought I would add my two cents...
I downloaded Wordfast and the training guides on day one. On day two, I took a client's text (still waiting for confirmation) and decided to try out Wordfast--that way I could eventually get paid while learning!
I continued to use Wordfast for 6 months. Then I attended my first training session. Though I knew quite a bit more about the software than the other participants, I learned many little things I had glossed over on my own. I've even started offering training in my region.
One more thing to point out is that your TM's are knowledge assets that you can place on your balance sheet (if you've got around to drawing up a balance sheet!). They are valuable! If or when you decide to retire, you can sell your business for a lot more money if you have millions of translation units stored in an easily accessible database.
John DiRico
www.apextra.net ▲ Collapse
| | | | Quinox (X)
Türkiye
Local time: 03:52
English to Turkish
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| Would CAT help for voiceover? | Jan 23, 2007 |
Hello,
As you can see i'm so new in here and i really need your advice. I've been hearing about these tools for many years and tried to learn a few of them, mostly using trial versions and reading tutorials. I'm doing voiceover translations for the most of the time. You know, lots of puns, small talks and spoken language. Which means repetition is quite low and repetition doesn't always mean that the translation will be the same. CAT is not a must for my clients but i'm not sure if i'll ge... See more Hello,
As you can see i'm so new in here and i really need your advice. I've been hearing about these tools for many years and tried to learn a few of them, mostly using trial versions and reading tutorials. I'm doing voiceover translations for the most of the time. You know, lots of puns, small talks and spoken language. Which means repetition is quite low and repetition doesn't always mean that the translation will be the same. CAT is not a must for my clients but i'm not sure if i'll get any voiceover jobs which will require CAT. In this case do you think that a CAT tool would be helpful? I like learning new programs if i'm gonna use them but i don't want to get dissapointed.
Thanks in advance for every word which will give me a clue. ▲ Collapse
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Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:52
French to English
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| Thank you for your useful comments in this thread! | Mar 18, 2007 |
Hi Tony :
I'd been thinking of seeing whether I could use Wordfast, as I don't really use any CAT packages and wonder whether they might be useful. What's obvious and intuitive to one person may not be so to another... It's helpful to read the experience of someone else who is something of a novice but who manages without quite well. Those sorts of operating problems sound extremely irksome and the sort of thing you can do without when very busy!
And thanks, Grazia, for starting this thread, too.
[Edited at 2007-03-18 14:49]
[Edited at 2007-03-18 15:46]
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