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Off topic: 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing
Thread poster: phdvet2001

phdvet2001  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:40
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
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Apr 8, 2008

今后看来要好好学习欧洲几个“民主”国家的语言,这样起码下次再遇到4月7日在法国巴黎传递奥运火炬时候发生的事情,不会再因为语言问题而干瞪眼。圣经里好象就有这么一条“以牙还牙,以眼还眼”。但是如果语言不通,如何发挥自己的“民主自由权力”?


[标题已经过网站人员或版主的修改 2008-04-09 03:05]

[标题已经过网站人员或版主的修改 2008-04-09 03:10]

[标题已经过网站人员或版主的修改 2008-04-09 03:11]


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Jason Ma  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 06:40
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Shame Apr 8, 2008

Shame on these PEACEFUL protestors and, no politics please.

[Edited at 2008-04-08 15:28]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:40
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Leg of Torch Relay in San Francisco Apr 8, 2008

Let's see how peaceful demonstrations are done - if any at all - in a nation with a tradition for democracy spanning more than 200 years.

I sure hope I don't have to eat my words.



[Edited at 2008-04-08 15:57]


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xxxwonita
China
Local time: 19:40
200 years of democracy? Apr 8, 2008

wherestip wrote:
Let's see how peaceful demonstrations are done - if any at all - in a nation with a tradition for democracy spanning more than 200 years.


Only for the white males!


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Don't quite get what you mean. Apr 8, 2008

Steve,

What do you mean by "I sure hope I don't have to eat my words."? Under which circumstances would you eat your words?

Peaceful demonstrations are done everywhere on this earth. Some of them turn easily to be "riots" much oftener in one than the other country. People just ask why.

Do you mean that the US has a tradition of democracy for more than 200 years and for this reason the Americans are more peaceful in demonstrations than another countries? Maybe. We just remember what happened 40 years ago, when Martin Luther King started to dream his dream. I hope that his dream can also be dreamt anywhere without the loss of lives.

wherestip wrote:

Leg of Torch Relay in San Francisco

Let's see how peaceful demonstrations are done - if any at all - in a country with a tradition of democracy for more than 200 years.

I sure hope I don't have to eat my words.


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isahuang
Local time: 17:40
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steve, I am keeping an eye on it Apr 8, 2008

wherestip wrote:


I sure hope I don't have to eat my words.



[Edited at 2008-04-08 15:57]




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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
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Democracy Apr 8, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Steve,

What do you mean by "I sure hope I don't have to eat my words."? Under which circumstances would you eat your words?

Peaceful demonstrations are done everywhere on this earth. Some of them turn easily to be "riots" much oftener in one than the other country. People just ask why.



Wenjer,

That's exactly what I mean. To let a peaceful demonstration get out of hand and turn violent is not respecting others with different opinions. If it does turn violent in the San Francisco leg of the relay, I'll have to eat my words.


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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To the thread initiator Apr 8, 2008

You don't need to learn any European language except English to understand what was going on during the Torch Marathon in Paris.

There are enough French people who speak and write Chinese. Just go over to the Chinese pages of the website of Radio France Internationale where you can find out every detail of the incidence.

http://www.rfi.fr/actucn/articles/100/article_6826.asp

Or just go download the following video reportage, in which you see what happened and don't need to understand a word.

mms://a988.v101995.c10199.e.vm.akamaistream.net/7/988/10199/3f97c7e6/ftvigrp.download.akamai.com/10199/sgv/diff/videotheque/info/VIDEOSJTs/20082/avril/07/20h/F7B13_factuel.wmv?WMCache=0

Anyway, there are a lot of articles accounting how the French people feel about the whole incident. Go over to Radio France Internationale and you get every detail out, provided you are "allowed" to view those articles in Chinese (or you can get through the Great Firewall).


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Local time: 06:40
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Well, how great a chance you reckon ... Apr 8, 2008

... that you might have to eat your words?

wherestip wrote:

Wenjer,

That's exactly what I mean. To let a peaceful demonstration get out of hand and turn violent is not respecting others with different opinions. If it does turn violent in the San Francisco leg of the relay, I'll have to eat my words.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Truthfully Apr 8, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

... that you might have to eat your words?



Almost none.


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Think of the French democractic tradition Apr 8, 2008

Before Paris, it was London. More than 30 arrests. Before London and Moscow, it was Istanbul and we know what happened there.

Well, how many years of democratic tradition do the Great Brits have? Since Magna Carta, 1215? Or, since Cromwell's Commonwealth, 1649?

Think of the French democratic tradition: On the 7th of April, the Torch Relay started from Eiffel Tower and no more than 500 meters from there, the Square of Human Rights. Since when the French people fought for their rights and democracy? The French Revolution from 1788 to 1799? Well, the Americans were some years earlier than the French people, say, from 1775 to 1783, the American Revolutionary War.

What did the French thinker, Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville, say about the American democracy? Well, not much appreciated. And are we to expect that the Americans with their 13 years more of a democratic tradition shall behave themselves to the wish of a country without a democratic tradition other than the French people?

Honestly, I doubt.

wherestip wrote:

Almost none.



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wherestip  Identity Verified
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It's About the Olympics Apr 8, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Honestly, I doubt.



Wenjer,

As far as I know, the concept of democracy dates back to ancient Greece. And that's a long time ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

Simply put, in today's global political framework, one group's politcal agenda, although possibly being in the name of freedom and democracy, cannot reign supreme over the freedom and democracy of others.

But that's just my opinion. And let's not get onto the topic of politics again.


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Local time: 06:40
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Oh, it IS about THE Olympics! Apr 8, 2008

Well, Steve, I was just responding to your "Let's see how peaceful demonstrations are done - if any at all - in a nation with a tradition for democracy spanning more than 200 years."

It's about Olympics, an ancient idea of peace and harmony. Do we have them? Do we have peace and harmoney in the host country of Olympics this year? In comparison to 2004, we see a very, very different scenery in Paris when the Torch was supposed to demonstrate the will for harmoney and peace among human race. It was distinguished once because of some technical problems and 4 times because the Torch had to be brought into a car.

How sad. And some of us are still talking about "Eyes for eyes and teeth for teeth."

IT IS ABOUT THE OLYMPICS!


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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I'm not sure what there's to pick about what I said Apr 8, 2008

Wenjer,

Nothing against France, but I read what you guys were talking about the Vichy Government, so to me that was an interruption to their tradition of democracy, wasn't it?

Anyway, who knows how the relay in the United States is going to turn out? It could be the same as in London. But one thing for sure, is the police won't let it turn into a nightmare, regardless of any desire or efforts by any groups to the contrary.



[Edited at 2008-04-08 23:14]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 06:40
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No, no. Apr 8, 2008

Steve,

Nothing to pick on what you said. It is really about the Olympics. What pissed me is to have such an opportunity for some people to attack others' person, just because it happened to have ethnical problems in the Olympics host country this year and people start hysterically attacking nations, groups and persons who try to find out what is really going on.

We did talk about Vichy regime and we come to the conclusion that uprighteous people lived through that period in France with their dignity maintained. There was at the same time the Resistence and the tradition of democracy was not interrupted. Especially, when that mess came to an end, people started to pick up the pieces and to look into them for reflection. By that way, they understand more about human minds and thus encourage each other to confront the truth, not hiding a part of it to justify one's own wrongdoings by pointing to others' former wrongdoings. So, we came to repect to and reverence for life.

It's about lives and we don't shut our eyes. That was why the French people demonstrated in Paris on April 7, 2008. They have made it clear what it is all about.

As to San Francisco, we will see soon what the American people would tell us about their democracy and reverence for life. Australia plans to shorten the route for the Torch relay. The IOC proposes to cancel further shows. Nobody would like to boycott the Olympics, not even Dalai Lama, but it will be the saddest Olympics this year. That is why I react this way upon what your said, especially when some import messages of mine got lost in this forum --- I am not even allowed to defend myself when some ones attack my person.

Anyway, let's just sit back and see what the Olympics will bring us, the human race as a whole, this year. Maybe people will start to think what for all these.

wherestip wrote:

Wenjer,

Nothing against France, but I read what you guys were talking about the Vichy government, so to me that interrupted their tradition of democracy, didn't it?



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