我建议的“不折腾”英文译法:avoid self-inflicting effort (attempt, endeavor),或者avoid retrogressive advancement
Thread poster: nigerose
nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:07
Chinese to English
+ ...
Jan 20, 2009

我建议的“不折腾”英文译法:avoid self-inflicting effort (attempt, endeavor),或者avoid retrogressive advancement

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avoid self-inflicting effort (attempt, endeavor)

这里effort, attempt或者endeavor(努力)反映在人的主观认识支配下的主观行动,是做事的出发点。self-inflicting反映做事的结果,即这种努力最终证明是自我折磨的。


比如文革cultural revolution,刚开始时人们认为是伟大的革命,是积极的,进步的,是一种effort, attempt或者endeavor;但历史证明,这是中华民族的一场浩劫,是中国人在self-inflicting。

之所以用effort, attempt或者endeavor而不是用有人提出的setback,是因为人们在进行effort, attempt或者endeavor(努力)的时候,还不知道结果是setback还是success。setback表示结果,effort, attempt或者endeavor表示起点和过程。

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avoid retrogressive advancement

这里采用了oxymoron (矛盾修饰法)。主观认识和主观行动觉得是advancement,但结果却是retrogressive。还是以“文革”为例。


“oxymoron
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
矛盾修饰法 一种把互相矛盾或不调和的词合在一起的修辞手法,如在 震耳欲聋的沉默和 悲伤的乐观”


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:07
Chinese to English
+ ...
avoid Jan 20, 2009

nigerose,

The word "avoid" is a good suggestion. IMO "avoid self-inflicted setbacks" is very good. By replacing "no" with "avoid", it changes the speaker's perspective to looking into the future, while also taking into account lessons learned from the past.



[Edited at 2009-01-20 15:19 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:07
Chinese to English
+ ...
avoid self-inflicted setbacks Jan 20, 2009

wherestip wrote:

nigerose,

The word "avoid" is a good suggestion. IMO "avoid self-inflicted setbacks" is very good. By replacing "no" with "avoid", it changes the speaker's perspective into looking into the future.



Oops. I didn't read the articles you and Yueyin linked in the other thread carefully enough. I just now realized that the suggestion was "avoid self-inflicted setbacks" all along. That makes some of my comments in the other thread invalid. Specifically some of these ...



However, I agree that the phrase "no self-inflicted setbacks" is a lot better than the other translations. At least it is closer to what I understand the Chinese phrase "不折腾" to be. Except that setbacks are usually not known until afterwards. How would someone recognize a setback until it is all said and done?

The nature of this whole thing is guidance from the top official on what not to do. If one knows ahead of time that some kind of action will cause a setback, yet engages in that action anyway, it really should be called "sabotage".




"Avoid self-inflicted setbacks" is indeed a good choice of words.



[Edited at 2009-01-20 15:14 GMT]


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WEI CLEMENT HUANG
France
Local time: 01:07
French to Chinese
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No Z turn Feb 10, 2009

大家觉得这个翻译怎么样?

No Z turn


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chica nueva
Local time: 12:07
Chinese to English
To me, it sounds 'made-up' 这就是说 like a 'Chinese-ism' Feb 11, 2009

WEI CLEMENT HUANG wrote:

大家觉得这个翻译怎么样?

No Z turn


Hello Xiao Huang/Clement:

How are you. Nice to see you here.

You want my honest opinion? IMO in English it sounds like a made-up word, or a 'Chinese-ism'.

1 As far as I know, it's not idiomatic in 'Standard English' (or 'British English', which is my version) but, having said that, IMO it might be possible to use it, as a 'new word/neologism' (but you still might have to explain to the reader what it meant).

2 Eventually, perhaps there might be a 'standard translation' (China Daily might have one already?)

Finally, I can't comment on other languages, but I'd be interested - how does 'No Z-turn' sound in French to you? Is it idiomatic?

Lesley


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nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:07
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
U turn Feb 12, 2009

WEI CLEMENT HUANG wrote:

大家觉得这个翻译怎么样?

No Z turn



有个科学术语是U-turn (U型转折)

看看U这个字母,从起点绕个弯有回到起点,不知道也是不是折腾。
开开玩笑。至少U-turn比Z turn通用多了。


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chica nueva
Local time: 12:07
Chinese to English
idioms 俗语 Feb 12, 2009

nigerose, Huang Wei:

依我看'U turns' 显得较好

'two steps forward, one step back' 也许也接近原文的意思,你们怎么认为

莱安 lai an

[Edited at 2009-02-12 06:54 GMT]


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nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:07
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too long Feb 13, 2009

lai an wrote:

nigerose, Huang Wei:

依我看'U turns' 显得较好

'two steps forward, one step back' 也许也接近原文的意思,你们怎么认为

莱安 lai an

[Edited at 2009-02-12 06:54 GMT]



'two steps forward, one step back' ,太长了


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chica nueva
Local time: 12:07
Chinese to English
Agree Feb 13, 2009

nigerose wrote:

'two steps forward, one step back' ,太长了


nigerose

you are right. BTW how do you find Kudoz? Have you tried 折腾 there?

[I have been warned to stay On Topic ... 我太罗嗦,费周折,老毛病,只好受Mod们的指导]

Lesley

[Edited at 2009-02-13 21:22 GMT]


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nigerose  Identity Verified
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Kudoz上不去了 Feb 14, 2009

Kudoz上不去,都快两个月了。在中国大陆,呵呵。

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chica nueva
Local time: 12:07
Chinese to English
很遗憾; 气候变化研究 Feb 14, 2009

nigerose wrote:

Kudoz上不去,都快两个月了。在中国大陆,呵呵。


1 很遗憾。想办法吧 - 跟人家同行提问者直接写信联系也可吗?

2 另外,关于‘climate change'问题/威胁/危机(哪儿一个正确? 你看又折腾...),
不知道您对这个最近发的'渔业领域'研究消息感不感兴趣:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0902/S00025.htm
Kelp genes reveal Ice Age “icier” than thought

3 挨处分十一编,了不起,折腾了好一会呢,看来应该算是老将们之一,您说?


[Edited at 2009-02-14 03:36 GMT]


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tang jianmei
Local time: 07:07
English to Chinese
Wei Clement Huang 的译法有人叫绝,要拜你呢 Oct 8, 2009

这是在中国翻译论坛上看到的贴子:

[转帖]非常人语:「不折腾」有了最佳英译
眼看都快一年了,大家一定还记得,中共举行大会纪念改革开放卅周年的时候,**讲话中的一句「不折腾」,难倒了国内外媒体界的双语精英。
怎么翻译这个中国人的口头语「不折腾」呢?这么多月来,专业翻译领域乃至网路上,有如擂台比舞,引无数英雄竞折腰,于是出现了各种各样的译法来传达「不折腾」,像“翻来倒去”(don't flip flop),“别走岔路”(don't get sidetracked),“别反复”(don't sway back and forth)、不踌躇(no dithering),甚至还有译成“没有重大变化”(no major changes)的,最后这个确实太不靠谱。
真的。那么多英语专家媒体同行,对于这种种译法,觉得都不够精彩,没有把“不折腾”这三个字,或者说关键是「折腾」两个字神似表达出来,真有些只可意会不可言传了。大家还记得最有趣的是,在去年12月30日国务院新闻办的发布会上,当有记者问到与“不折腾”有关的问题时,现场翻译乾脆根据中文拼音念出“bu zheteng”,让这三字用语再引来一轮现场笑声。不过,事后中国媒体在报导中还赞扬一番,说“bu zheteng”或许将成为英语当中的专属名词。
没错,有些文字,确实只能用原语言发音,但是「bu zheteng」是否可以成为国际词汇?迄今代表官方的权威解释依然缺席,似乎是预留了模糊空间让各家解读。
不过真的深山有高僧,大隐隐于市,日前看到了一个不折腾的英语翻译,立马拍案叫绝。怎么翻译的呢?一起来看看:
不折腾,英语译为:NO Z Turn!
神来之笔呀!我们都到Turn是啥意思,公路上常常看到No U Turn的交通标志警示牌,就是不许掉头。
NO Z Turn呢?这说法虽然在目前还没有,但也可以想像为一个交通警示牌,不难想像:Z字型乱转弯,先朝左开,再朝右开,然后再朝左开,这是干什么呢?不就是折腾吗?所以,不许Z字型的乱拐弯,就符合汉语不折腾原意,而且在发音上还相同:折腾和Z Turn!太妙了!妙不可言!
这样绝妙的翻译,出自何人之手?不知道,有人说是网友。我相信,现在中国的网友还有电话短信的写手,真是藏龙卧虎啊!
有哪位网友能够<人肉搜索>出这位高手来,本编辑很想在此拜一拜他!(2009年09月30日 总编辑时间)

转载自 凤凰卫视。

个人博客: http://gona.me


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:07
Chinese to English
+ ...
"No Z turn" Oct 14, 2009

This is not good English, IMHO. No "turns" or change in the general direction is accomplished when one is making a zigzag, or making zigzags. Therefore such crisscross motions aren't really "turns" per se. A generally straight course with some erratic deviations along the way could be said to contain zigzags in it, not Z-turns.

"Zigzags ahead" is a standard warning sign on the roads in the U.S.. I personally don't see any point in creating a Chinese-flavored English term while a standard English term that is widely understood already exists, especially when that newly-coined term doesn't seem very logical to begin with.




http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/blogs/living-loco/2009/apr/14/slow-down-drivers-zigzags-ahead/

Slow Down Drivers, Zigzags Ahead
By Erica Garman at 11:22 a.m., April 14, 2009 (38 comments)

Drivers can't miss the new white zigzags on Belmont Ridge Road in Ashburn where the Washington & Old Dominion Trail intersects the roadway.




zigzag  
–noun
1. a line, course, or progression characterized by sharp turns first to one side and then to the other.
2. one of a series of such turns, as in a line or path.



IMO, it's even worse than the Loong versus the dragon idea



[Edited at 2009-10-15 03:56 GMT]


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