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Would you accept this kind of "collaboration"?
Thread poster: Terry Thatcher Waltz, Ph.D.

Terry Thatcher Waltz, Ph.D.  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:17
Chinese to English
+ ...
Jul 15, 2003

Got an e-mail this morning off of my ProZ page. I won't say who sent it, but here's what it said:

Hi Terry, I saw the ad of XYZ Ltd,14 July, 280,000 words, 0.03USD, native English translater, I wish bid with cooperation, I do the whole thing and you check and rewrite, getting 30% of the payment? or negotiation? Will you trust my translation, please see my samples of translation. If you don't agree, just forget this message.


Thank goodness I'm not that hungry yet. But it disturbs me that people would play into the hands of folks who are offering ridiculous rates for work from Chinese to English, demanding native quality, and offering such incredibly low rates. IMHO accepting offers like this does not help the industry or those of us who are trying to make a living as professionals -- what do you think??

I wonder if this same person would like to edit MY work into Chinese on that kind of volume....I would guess the answer would be "No way!" Just so I can say I'm a native Chinese speaking translator???


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
+ ...
I will not accept the job at this price ! Jul 15, 2003

Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:

Thank goodness I'm not that hungry yet. But it disturbs me that people would play into the hands of folks who are offering ridiculous rates for work from Chinese to English, demanding native quality, and offering such incredibly low rates. IMHO accepting offers like this does not help the industry or those of us who are trying to make a living as professionals -- what do you think??

I wonder if this same person would like to edit MY work into Chinese on that kind of volume....I would guess the answer would be "No way!" Just so I can say I'm a native Chinese speaking translator???


在国内的同事也许愿意接收这样的价格?
由於在法国的各种税率(我想大部分其它西方国家亦如此),不可能接受这样的价格。我希望大家能对我们的职业尊重,共同努力,防止翻译费降到令人困惑的地步。


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:17
English to Chinese
+ ...
I agree with Terry and Chance! Jul 15, 2003

chance wrote:

Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:

Thank goodness I'm not that hungry yet. But it disturbs me that people would play into the hands of folks who are offering ridiculous rates for work from Chinese to English, demanding native quality, and offering such incredibly low rates. IMHO accepting offers like this does not help the industry or those of us who are trying to make a living as professionals -- what do you think??

I wonder if this same person would like to edit MY work into Chinese on that kind of volume....I would guess the answer would be "No way!" Just so I can say I'm a native Chinese speaking translator???


在国内的同事也许愿意接收这样的价格?
由於在法国的各种税率(我想大部分其它西方国家亦如此),不可能接受这样的价格。我希望大家能对我们的职业尊重,共同努力,防止翻译费降到令人困惑的地步。


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:17
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Agree with you all Jul 16, 2003

现在翻译价格有越降越低的趋势,任何有责任心和自尊心的译员都应该自觉抵制这种倾向,使行业朝健康的方向发展。

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Brenda Wong, M.A. (Translation & Interpretation)  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
English to Chinese
+ ...
No way, however ... Jul 16, 2003

with more and more amateurs and wannabes entering and actually working in our profession, the future looks pretty bleak. Also, the public (unfortunately, a lot of agencies included) doesn't understand nor respect our profession. They think anyone who can or claim to be able to speak two or more languages can become a translator or interpreter (often times people don't even know the difference between translation and interpretation). They do not know that there are skills and trainings involved. To a lot of agencies, their bottom line is $$. Whoever can earn me the highest profit is "the one".
Also, I would like to know what is Proz.com going to do to avoid this kind of "abuse" by companies? If they continue to allow companies to post $0.02, $0.03 or $0.04 jobs on their site, eventually people would only regard this site as a marketplace for "cheap and unqualified" workers.
This is just my humble opinion. What do you think?


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Georgia Kuo
Taiwan
Local time: 01:17
English to Chinese
硂贺基跌琌癸Terryōю阑 Jul 17, 2003

Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:

Got an e-mail this morning off of my ProZ page. I won't say who sent it, but here's what it said:

Hi Terry, I saw the ad of XYZ Ltd,14 July, 280,000 words, 0.03USD, native English translater, I wish bid with cooperation, I do the whole thing and you check and rewrite, getting 30% of the payment? or negotiation? Will you trust my translation, please see my samples of translation. If you don't agree, just forget this message.

IMHO accepting offers like this does not help the industry or those of us who are trying to make a living as professionals -- what do you think?


顿稲﹋ゝ(临Τ)

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產癬ぃ璶"ぃ瞶"基Т
(临ΤΤ⊿Τ禗и柬絑┪糵絑瞶基莱赣琌ぶ? иヘ玡琌璹陆亩Μ禣オ琌и祇瞷, 癸иτē糵絑┪柬絑┮惠丁籔弘はτ㎡┮叫拜柬絑┪糵絑莱赣或Μ禣耕瞶㎡?)/Georgia


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:17
English to Chinese
+ ...
语不惊人死不休! Jul 17, 2003

Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:...Thank goodness. I am not that hungry yet.


Chance wrote:......共同努力,防止翻译费降到令人困惑的地步。


Zhoudan wrote:...应该自觉抵制这种倾向,使行业朝健康的方向发展。


Brenda wrote: With more and more amateurs and wannabes entering and actually working in our profession, the future looks pretty bleak...


Georgiailg wrote:大家一起努力,不要向“不合理”的价位妥协吧。”...



Betty的肺腑之言: 诸位之讨论思路开阔敏锐,见解独到精辟,尤其是对目前翻译市场形势的分析更是入木三分!吾在佩服之余,渴盼众姐妹有更好的“译坛妙语”在此发表,并期待有更多的“译苑奇葩”在中文论坛诞生!

坚决支持众姐妹的讨论!









[Edited at 2003-07-17 15:41]


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
+ ...
值得一提 Jul 17, 2003

真的,为何在此"系关生存" 的问题上,只有女士"斗胆直言"?!

[Edited at 2003-07-17 21:17]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:17
English to Chinese
+ ...
支持! Jul 21, 2003

chance wrote:

真的,为何在此"系关生存" 的问题上,只有女士"斗胆直言"?!

[Edited at 2003-07-17 21:17]


果真巾帼不让须眉,佩服!


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Y_Bill
Local time: 01:17
Chinese to English
+ ...
一点补充。。。 Jul 22, 2003

chance wrote:

真的,为何在此"系关生存" 的问题上,只有女士"斗胆直言"?!

[Edited at 2003-07-17 21:17]


现在许多男人退化似乎颇有迹象,我教的翻译班的学生中许多男孩子就相当有表现。一是无能 ,没有见解,没有眼光,人云亦云;二是猥琐而狭隘,以小人之心度“大人”之腹,爱鼓捣鸡毛蒜皮,不敢承当大事。三是缺乏诚信,不懂“书有未曾经我读,事无不可对人言”的道理。这样的男孩多了,这个班教起来就很费劲,班风恶劣,弄得我当老师的心情也不好。

我对这种现象相当忧心,诸位在翻译之余,能否就如何转变这种现象说说自己的看法?

另外,我非常赞成诸位对翻译价格的看法,优秀的翻译一定要有优秀的价格,否则我们行业的标准日渐沉沦,于大家都不利。


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:17
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
不知你班上的女生如何? Jul 22, 2003

Y_Bill wrote:

现在许多男人退化似乎颇有迹象,我教的翻译班的学生中许多男孩子就相当有表现。一是无能 ,没有见解,没有眼光,人云亦云;二是猥琐而狭隘,以小人之心度“大人”之腹,爱鼓捣鸡毛蒜皮,不敢承当大事。三是缺乏诚信,不懂“书有未曾经我读,事无不可对人言”的道理。这样的男孩多了,这个班教起来就很费劲,班风恶劣,弄得我当老师的心情也不好。



Hi Bill,
如果班上女生的表现好,那不也是很愉快的吗?就怕男女学生都一样小家子气,那麻烦就大了。


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
+ ...
只不过是希望更多的同仁思索...... Jul 22, 2003

Y_Bill wrote:

“现在许多男人退化似乎颇有迹象”

我看倒不一定是这个问题。有些同事正忙,还顾不上参加讨论;有的有难言之隐,也是可以理解的,因为每个人的处境不同。我只不过是希望更多的同仁思索,反省......因为翻译质量和价格的保证乃需要各位同心协力。

Y_Bill wrote:

“我教的翻译班的学生中许多男孩子就相当有表现。一是无能 ,没有见解,没有眼光,人云亦云;二是猥琐而狭隘,以小人之心度“大人”之腹,爱鼓捣鸡毛蒜皮,不敢承当大事。三是缺乏诚信,不懂“书有未曾经我读,事无不可对人言”的道理。这样的男孩多了,这个班教起来就很费劲,班风恶劣,弄得我当老师的心情也不好。

我对这种现象相当忧心,诸位在翻译之余,能否就如何转变这种现象说说自己的看法?”

这种现象不是一两天的时间可以改变的,不过你的老师职位给了你一个相当有利的“启蒙”机会。是否可以选择一些文章让学生阅读,启发讨论?

优秀的老师能让学生终生受益,祝你成功!


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Y_Bill
Local time: 01:17
Chinese to English
+ ...
女孩子总是好得多。。。 Jul 22, 2003

Zhoudan wrote:
Hi Bill,
如果班上女生的表现好,那不也是很愉快的吗?就怕男女学生都一样小家子气,那麻烦就大了。


我说这话还真没有性别优待的意思,我当然希望朝气蓬勃、光明磊落、拿得起放得下的男生越多越好,可据我的经验,20人的班里能有一个这样的男生就不错了。

原因可能是多方面的,幼儿园的纯“阿姨”教育,影视中健康的男性英雄阙如,社会的势利猥琐气氛等等,而上述不良影响往往是长期的,男生上学时如此,“粪土之墙不可杇也”,将来成人恐怕也难有起色。这的确令人忧心而无可如何也。


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Georgia Kuo
Taiwan
Local time: 01:17
English to Chinese
追求没有歧见的两性平等 Jul 22, 2003

Y_Bill wrote:

现在许多男人退化似乎颇有迹象,我教的翻译班的学生中许多男孩子就相当有表现。一是无能 ,没有见解,没有眼光,人云亦云;二是猥琐而狭隘,以小人之心度“大人”之腹,爱鼓捣鸡毛蒜皮,不敢承当大事。三是缺乏诚信,不懂“书有未曾经我读,事无不可对人言”的道理。这样的男孩多了,这个班教起来就很费劲,班风恶劣,弄得我当老师的心情也不好。


好姐妹们,

Y-BILL您可能有点离题了哦…(呵,呵,我希望此地的好兄弟们看了您的说法没有直接就"中风"了。)我觉得Chance只是想开个小玩笑而已,并没有看低男性同胞的意思。倒是你的看法有点不太公平。为什么?

第一, 你不可以拿你教过的某一班作为理论基础。以所有的人口比率来说,你教的那一班不过是大海中一颗晶莹的小水滴而已。拿这样的人数推出如此惊天动地的结论,并非我们女性同胞所乐见的。其次,如果他们”正好”是你的学生,那么,除了教导他们专业知识外,他们那些不成熟、懦弱的个性不也是你所应该努力”导正”的地方吗? 不管是男、是女,他们既然有幸成为你的学生,你就有责任改造他们、使他们更完美。这就是为人师表的重责大任,是不是? 老师,加油啰!!
第二, 任何人、任何性别,都是可以被批评的,我并不反对批评,批评可以使人类更进步。不过,在讨伐”异性”之前,我们必需先检讨自己的基础观点; 我们是否对异性有”竞争情结”,也就是有”与生俱来”的敌意。如果有的话,那么在整个观察过程与提出结论之前一定要澈底的消毒; 要先将自己的歧见去除,才能提出更公平、更服人的理论。在追求两性平等的过程中,我们女性提出了很多论点,我认为最重要的不是如何追求表面的两性平等,而是如何建立一个”完全没有性别歧视”的新秩序。

这是一个开放的空间,对勇于发表的您,我为您鼓掌。不过,我希望你能回过头,以一个完全公平的心态重新检视你所有的学生,然后再提出您的观点,毕竟这是一个很有趣的话题。(不过,姐妹兄弟们,切记,尽量客观。好了,大家继续”讨伐”吧。)
-Georgia


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Y_Bill
Local time: 01:17
Chinese to English
+ ...
同意:) Jul 22, 2003

Georgiailg wrote:

Y_Bill wrote:

现在许多男人退化似乎颇有迹象,我教的翻译班的学生中许多男孩子就相当有表现。一是无能 ,没有见解,没有眼光,人云亦云;二是猥琐而狭隘,以小人之心度“大人”之腹,爱鼓捣鸡毛蒜皮,不敢承当大事。三是缺乏诚信,不懂“书有未曾经我读,事无不可对人言”的道理。这样的男孩多了,这个班教起来就很费劲,班风恶劣,弄得我当老师的心情也不好。


好姐妹们,

Y-BILL您可能有点离题了哦…(呵,呵,我希望此地的好兄弟们看了您的说法没有直接就"中风"了。)我觉得Chance只是想开个小玩笑而已,并没有看低男性同胞的意思。倒是你的看法有点不太公平。为什么?

第一, 你不可以拿你教过的某一班作为理论基础。以所有的人口比率来说,你教的那一班不过是大海中一颗晶莹的小水滴而已。拿这样的人数推出如此惊天动地的结论,并非我们女性同胞所乐见的。其次,如果他们”正好”是你的学生,那么,除了教导他们专业知识外,他们那些不成熟、懦弱的个性不也是你所应该努力”导正”的地方吗? 不管是男、是女,他们既然有幸成为你的学生,你就有责任改造他们、使他们更完美。这就是为人师表的重责大任,是不是? 老师,加油啰!!
第二, 任何人、任何性别,都是可以被批评的,我并不反对批评,批评可以使人类更进步。不过,在讨伐”异性”之前,我们必需先检讨自己的基础观点; 我们是否对异性有”竞争情结”,也就是有”与生俱来”的敌意。如果有的话,那么在整个观察过程与提出结论之前一定要澈底的消毒; 要先将自己的歧见去除,才能提出更公平、更服人的理论。在追求两性平等的过程中,我们女性提出了很多论点,我认为最重要的不是如何追求表面的两性平等,而是如何建立一个”完全没有性别歧视”的新秩序。

这是一个开放的空间,对勇于发表的您,我为您鼓掌。不过,我希望你能回过头,以一个完全公平的心态重新检视你所有的学生,然后再提出您的观点,毕竟这是一个很有趣的话题。(不过,姐妹兄弟们,切记,尽量客观。好了,大家继续”讨伐”吧。)
-Georgia


不过我提出的不是理论,有感而发而已。怜之深,责之切而已。

学您的口气,我们大家都来点公平、平等的精神吧!

Bill


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