以讹传讹，还是约定俗成？ Thread poster: rhz820319
|
|---|
rhz820319
China
Local time: 03:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
Defend, Indemnify, and Hold Harmless大陆常见的译法是“为…抗辩，赔偿…，并使其不受损害”，我以前也是用此不疲。但最近有个稿子让我感到有点头疼
Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement to the contrary, the parties agree that Contractor’s liability to the Company under this Agreement and; as between the Company and the Contractor, the Contractor’s liability to any Third Party howsoever arising out of or in connection with the... See more Defend, Indemnify, and Hold Harmless大陆常见的译法是“为…抗辩，赔偿…，并使其不受损害”，我以前也是用此不疲。但最近有个稿子让我感到有点头疼
Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement to the contrary, the parties agree that Contractor’s liability to the Company under this Agreement and; as between the Company and the Contractor, the Contractor’s liability to any Third Party howsoever arising out of or in connection with the performance of this Agreement shall not exceed in aggregate a sum equal to the aggregate of payments received by Contractor for Contractor’s Services and Company shall release, defend, indemnify and hold harmless Contractor for any amounts in excess thereof, Regardless Of Cause or breach of duty (statutory or otherwise) of any member of the Contractor.
release, defend, indemnify and hold harmless明显是针对for any amounts in excess thereof (of the liability limitation超过限额的部分)，而且承认Contractor’s liability to any Third Party 对第三人负有责任，那么我就不理解了，这里还要抗辩什么呢？（抗辩，则是指当事人通过主张与对方的主张事实所不同的事实或法律关系以排斥对方的主张事实的行为。http://www.show43.com/lunwen/falv/minfa/37242.html）因为已经承认负有责任了，即承认了事实 ；而且即使是对赔偿金额有争议，业主多半也没多大本事抗辩like an attorney.
事实上，根据某个lawyer as a native English speaker指出：
Your agreement to "defend" a company means that you must pay for its legal representation against claims and lawsuits, which can include expensive attorneys' fees and high litigation costs. While many companies will want to choose their legal counsel, you will have to pay for those fees as long as they are reasonable.支付诉讼相关费用，包括律师费
When you agree to "indemnify" a company, you must pay for any financial loss it incurs, such as a settlement or a court award, either directly or through reimbursement. 赔偿损失
"Hold harmless" means that you will not make a claim against a company if claims are made against you for events related to the agreement.不起诉业主/公司（claim是suit的意思可见The court said that it was plain that all the clause did was to provide that the tenant release the landlord from claims for damages accruing to the tenant and that it would hold the landlord harmless “from all such damages” as were dealt with in the release clause. The court added that there was a great material difference between a covenant such as the lease carried, releasing the landlord from and agreeing not to sue him on claims accruing to the tenant, and covenants such as the landlord contended the lease covenant was, agreeing to indemnify the landlord and hold him harmless from claims of others.）
当然，也有判例认为hold harmless 根本就是法律英语常见的累赘语（There is also support for your position. In Complaint of Sun Schiffahrts G.m.b.H. & Co., K.G. 608 F.Supp. 51 D.C.Pa.,1984 wrote: “This Paragraph is obviously directed to indemnification rather than exemption from liability but Oxy contends that the use of the conjunction “and/or” preceding “hold harmless” makes it more than an alternative or synonym and adds exemption from liability to the indemnification provisions of the paragraph. Sun argues that “hold harmless” has never had any meaning other than as a synonym for “indemnify;” the cases support its contention that “and/or hold harmless” results from the excess caution of a scrivener of the document. ）。这已经属于法律解释层面的问题了，就一个翻译人员而言，最好还是将hold harmless翻译出来，至于到底是不是累赘语要考虑立约背景，当事人意图，译者不可能考虑过多，该交给专家解释的就交给专家。另外，从某种角度而言，鄙人认为defend甚至也是累赘语，前提是已经提出from and against ….legal cost (including attorney's fee) and any other expense and cost这样的话，用赔偿….因…发生的….费用就足够了。c
据此，鄙人认为Defend, Indemnify, and Hold Harmless应该翻译成为…支付诉讼相关费用、赔偿…损失，并且不起诉…；如果上下文出现了from and against ….legal cost (including attorney's fee) and any other expense and cost，不妨简化成赔偿….因…发生的….费用、损失，并且不起诉…
各位高人有任何更好的见解吗，请畅所欲言。
[修改时间: 2009-07-21 01:15 GMT]
[修改时间: 2009-07-21 04:40 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | rhz820319
China
Local time: 03:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
FIDIC合同条件第22．1款规定：“除合同另有规定，承包商应保障业主免于承受与下述有关的任何损失或索赔：
（a）任何人员的死亡或受伤；或者
（b）任何财产的损失或损害（除工程之外）。
上述人身或财产的损害系在工程实施和完成以及修补其任何缺陷过程中发生的，或由其引起的，同时还应保障业主免受为此或与此有关的一切索赔、诉讼、损�... See more FIDIC合同条件第22．1款规定：“除合同另有规定，承包商应保障业主免于承受与下述有关的任何损失或索赔：
（a）任何人员的死亡或受伤；或者
（b）任何财产的损失或损害（除工程之外）。
上述人身或财产的损害系在工程实施和完成以及修补其任何缺陷过程中发生的，或由其引起的，同时还应保障业主免受为此或与此有关的一切索赔、诉讼、损害赔偿费、诉讼费、指控费和其它费用，但第22．2款所限定的情况属于例外。”
FIDI上只有 indemnify 一词（就我GOOGLE搜索所见），明显是将protect, defend, indemnify and hold harmless处理成累赘语，而仅以indemnify表示——大量建筑合同中仍然出现protect, defend, indemnify and hold harmless类似的累赘语表达。但仍然不能排除hold harmless在建筑合同以外的合同中所具有的其它含义（SUBJECT TO法官解释）。
对商务来往密切的合作伙伴之间，hold harmless用“不起诉”似乎有点大，不妨用“不追偿”；各位看官以为如何？ ▲ Collapse
| | | | rhz820319
China
Local time: 03:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
有法律人士认为“indemnitor typically wants to control the defense in any event.” defend或许确有“辨护”的成分，但翻译成“抗辩”我仍然认为不适当。
某些情况下，合同规定indeminitee自行选择律师，这时，或许用为...支付法律相关费用就比较适当；其它情况下，不妨用为...提供辩护（貌似比“为...辩护”，尽管中国non certified lawyer是可以担任辩护人和诉讼代理人的，但我的印象中，欧美大多数国家是不允许solicitor, barrister, attorney 以外的non certified lawyer, if not layman担任辩护人和诉讼代理人）。
| | | | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » 以讹传讹，还是约定俗成？ | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
