Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
老外要拯救“中式英语”
Thread poster: nigerose

nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 00:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
Sep 8, 2009

“long time no see”成标准英文词组
老外要拯救“中式英语”



【本报讯】当中国人发明了“good good study,day day up”(好好学习,天天向上)后,这个看起来有些雷人的词汇就带领着Chinglish(中式英语)一路前进。当中国人自嘲被中式英语雷得“里嫩外焦”时,说英语的外国人却开始发起了“拯救中式英语”的活动。在这些拥护中式英语的外国人眼中,英语字典邂逅中国语法,中式英语错得“韵味十足”。

引发外媒热议

中式英语指的是那种语法不对、拼写错误带有中文习惯的英语,主要见之于中国许多地方的标牌。英国《卫报》报道说,这种语言风格在网络上吸引了一些狂热追随者,甚至有人专门探讨这种语言现象。不过,中式英语恐怕会被扼杀,因为上海政府担心明年世博会期间中式英语可能会让循规蹈矩的外国游客尴尬,而发起了一场旨在纠正“离奇误译”的行动。

在英国《卫报》的报道中称,美国社交类网站Facebook上甚至有“救救中式英语”小组,并吸引了8000多名成员,里边有超过2500条中式英语例子;而美国知名照片博客Flickr上的“中式英语之潭”,则有超过3000张有关中式英语的招牌类照片。

瑞克是中式英语的坚定拥趸,他坚称,自己对中式英语的兴趣是出于“喜欢而非嘲笑”,大多数网民似乎也抱这样的态度,他们喜爱而不是鄙夷中式英语。

老外也用“day day up”

今年,互联网上曾展开了一项“票选十大中式英语”调查,结果显示“Good good study,day day up”(好好学习,天天向上)以3417票高居榜首。面对这样的调查,有人称被中式英语雷得“里嫩外焦”,一些英语教师更是表示,很雷很无语。“奥运之前不是才清理过中式英语吗,怎么又重现江湖了?”

有媒体统计,7成参加投票的网友表示赞成中式英语的使用,认为中式英语既有趣又被大家口耳相传,将来老外也会这么用。有人愤愤不平:“可以有印度式英语、美式英语、澳大利亚式英语,为什么不能有中式英语?”有人甚至搬出了数据:全球语言监督会主席帕亚克曾对媒体表示,由于中国经济增长的影响,它现在对国际英语的冲击比英语国家还大。1994年以来加入国际英语行列的词汇中,中式英语贡献了5%至20%,超过任何其他来源。

在对待中式英语的态度上,一些外国人并没有觉得它们是严重的错误,他们的观点是:有趣,甚至有意义。一种语言在使用过程中必定会入乡随俗、受到使用者的影响,不管其母语使用者是否同意。中式英语“long time no see”(很久不见)已成为标准英文词组。

也有一些外国人指出,有些用在公共场合的中式英语不值得提倡。比如某市地铁内“先下后上、文明乘车”的翻译“After first under on, do riding with ci-vility”就有明显的网络机器翻译的痕迹。

生硬的翻译确实会让刚来中国的老外们摸不着头脑,但在通晓中国文化的外国人看来,这却是一种文化差异造成的有趣现象。

一位中文名为纪韶融的德国青年非常来劲,他还出了本名为《日常生活中的中式英语》的书。在纪韶融看来,如果以后有朋自远方到中国来,再也看不到“Wel-cometoPresence”(欢迎光临)这样的中式英语,而只剩下一个干巴巴的Welcome,那将是多么的索然无味。他还在著作里颇具善意地分析了中式英语产生的原因。他认为,不管是汉语拼音,还是中式英语,都是一种装饰,不必太认真。(郭晶晶)


http://szsb.sznews.com/html/2009-09/04/content_763462.htm


 

Chun Un  Identity Verified
Macau
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
何必 Sep 8, 2009

nigerose wrote:



他认为,不管是汉语拼音,还是中式英语,都是一种装饰,不必太认真。(郭晶晶)


http://szsb.sznews.com/html/2009-09/04/content_763462.htm



其实何必用英语来标志公共场所呢,英文又不是我们的官方语言。其他翻译的事情就留给翻译做吧。


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
FWIW Sep 8, 2009

People only say "long time, no see" half jokingly. It's mostly used between friends and aquaintances as an informal good-humored greeting. Rarely is it used in a formal setting.

Besides, the phrase didn't necessarily originate from pidgin English. "Long time, no contact" is grammatically correct English. It's not entirely inconceivable that someone at some point substituted the verb "see" in a joking manner, not unlike Ronald Reagan's grammatically incorrect "You ain't seen nothin' yet!"

Someone asked about this phrase on the web:



Could you please tell me the origin of the expression "long time no see"?

I have been thinking that it is invented by the Chinese American who came to the U.S long ago, and nowadays accepted as colloquial language. Actually, it is very similar to its Chinese equivalent word for word

But just now another person told me that it is derived from the Spanish mucho tiempo sin verte (mucho tiempo que no nos vemos) (I just copied the Spanish and have no idea what it means). Could you shed light on that for me

Oh by the way, I wonder if you will use "long tme no see" in formal writing like business English.

Thank you very much.



And someone else responded this way:



Briefly, there appears to be no agreement on whether this is of Chinese or Native American origin.

It is highly informal and you wouldn't generally write it as you need to "see" the person you are saying it to. You wouldn't say this in a business context unless you knew the person very well indeed.





[Edited at 2009-09-08 18:47 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
The attitude toward Pidgin English is diverse in itself Sep 22, 2009

Here's a documentary that could be dubbed a Pidgin English lover's delight ...




http://www.aptonline.org/catalog.nsf/AlphaLookup/F8355B8CDC28B8E68525761600749CDF

Description

Born on sugar plantations and spoken by more than half of Hawaii’s population, the Pidgin language — part English, part Hawaiian, with influences from other languages — captures the essence of multi-ethnic Hawaii. PIDGIN: THE VOICE OF HAWAII profiles this working-class language from its rise as plantation jargon to a source of island identity and pride. The film draws on a variety of sources, including archival, academic and other expert commentary, man-on-the-street interviews and performance to shed light on this colorful language.





Pidgin: the voice of Hawai‘i

Synopsis

According to Michelle Obama, “You can’t really understand Barack until you understand Hawai‘i.” But you can’t really understand Hawai‘i, until you understand Pidgin, the language of Hawai‘i’s heart and soul. Born on sugar plantations, spoken by more than half Hawai‘i’s population, part English, part Hawaiian, with other languages mixed in, Pidgin captures the essence of multi-ethnic Hawai‘i.

“Pidgin: The Voice of Hawai‘i”, a one hour documentary, profiles this language of Hawai‘i’s working people in its rise from plantation jargon to a source of island identity and pride. In the 1920s, English Standard Schools, government funded public schools that refused to admit Pidgin-speaking children, fueled anti-Pidgin sentiment and left behind a legacy of shame in speaking Pidgin.

In the 1980s, when it began to look like attitudes toward Pidgin might be changing, a landmark court case shocked Hawai‘i’s people. Two employees of the National Weather Service, Hawai‘i men who had attended Hawai‘i schools, applied for and were denied promotion based on the claim that they spoke with “local accents.” They sued in federal court and lost, leaving Hawai‘i’s people to once again feel the stigma of speaking Pidgin.

But Pidgin did not die. Hawaiian Studies professor Kanalu Young, fluent in the newly revived Native Hawaiian language, finds his island identity rooted in Pidgin. Teresa Kaleiopu Lau, a retired public school teacher, turned her back on Pidgin and embraced English as a ticket to success. But she missed family and friends, so in retirement, she once again speaks Pidgin “at the right time.”

Pidgin: The voice of Hawai‘i charts how the 1970s rebirth of Native Hawaiian culture and language moved Pidgin speakers to take pride in their language. Writer Lee Tonouchi, Hawai‘i’s Pidgin “Guerrilla,” renounced English. Bible translators produced Da Jesus Book from The New Testament, Hawai‘i authors wrote best-selling books with Pidgin dialogue, and the University of Hawai‘i even gave its backing to a Certificate in Pidgin and Creole Studies.

Young people today speak and instant message in Pidgin. Immigrants new to Hawai‘i use Pidgin as their common tongue.




FWIW, personally, I'd prefer China not to lose its cultural identity and become a society that speaks a mix of Chinese and Pidgin English. But that might be just wishful thinking, 'cause from my observation hanging around this forum, I get the queasy feeling that that train has already left the station. icon_biggrin.gif

[Edited at 2009-09-22 19:27 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
A Wikipedia page Sep 23, 2009

... just for reference. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia doesn't yet have a verification mechanism in place, so there's no guarantee that everything said is always accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Pidgin_English


p.s. Who knew that "蹩脚" came from the word "bilge" ... and "赤佬" from "cheat"!


 
Chinglish Apr 7, 2010

啊 中式英语 Chinglish

 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
English to Chinese
+ ...
“英式中文” Apr 9, 2010

既然“中式英语”被称为 Chinglish,那么,“英式中文”叫什么?Engnese?
举个例子,“给多点空间和时间别人”大概可以称为“英式中文”(Give more space and time to other people)。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinglish

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=engnese


[Edited at 2010-04-09 06:50 GMT]


 

nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 00:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is there a counterpart for Chinglish? Apr 9, 2010

Is there a counterpart for Chinglish?

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/6937


“Englinese”(English Chinese,英式中文)

我一向以为孩子的中文没有问题,直到有一天,她的同学当著我的面问她我是谁时,她说:“这是我的妈。”(this is my mother)

当我问她,她的老师不开车,怎样到学校上课时,她说:“她的先生丢(drop)她。”

http://www.ccican.com/chinaministry/Search_Mag/37_Article4.htm

[修改时间: 2010-04-09 07:13 GMT]


 

Henry Zhang  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:44
English to Chinese
+ ...
老外也有英式中文的问题 Apr 9, 2010

上次跟一个东亚系的女孩聊天,她说她失恋了,然后说“那几天头子很疼,不能想东西。”
语言肯定是受使用者的思维所影响的。
没办法拯救,也拯救不来。


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
"Cute" Apr 9, 2010

ysun wrote:

既然“中式英语”被称为 Chinglish,那么,“英式中文”叫什么?Engnese?
...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=engnese




Yueyin,

Take a gander at this one. It's like decoding Morse code ...icon_biggrin.gif





http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=duibs

ACC Student A: duibs! i've been fanging pis the entire che ride.

ACC Student B: bukeq, all our duds have been laing since we left Beij.



My guess of what was being said ...


ACC Student A: 对不起! i've been 放'ing 屁s the entire 车 ride.

ACC Student B: 不客气, all our 肚子 have been 拉'ing since we left 北京.





I'm sure the kids were just having some laughs though, albeit probably at the expense of another group of people.


[Edited at 2010-04-09 16:27 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
On a side note Apr 9, 2010

Is it Shanghainese or Shanghaiese? I always referred to it as Shanghaiese; so did the English professor friend I knew from way back who taught at Tingting's Alma Mater. Actually, he was the one who kept spouting the word in our conversations because Shanghai was his original hometown. icon_biggrin.gif



http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2969

Shanghainese or Shanghaiese?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't Shanghainese actually be Shanghaiese? There's absolutely no reason that an "n" should be added other than to sound like Chinese, Cantonese, Fujianese (Fukienese), and Japanese.

...



But this dictionary entry says otherwise ...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Shanghainese


[Edited at 2010-04-10 13:10 GMT]


 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
English to Chinese
+ ...
“英式中文” Apr 9, 2010

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin,

Take a gander at this one. It's like decoding Morse code ...icon_biggrin.gif

其实,那些例子不能算“英式中文”。我所指的“英式中文”是指“给多点空间别人”、“感谢先”之类的中国人讲的中文。外国人说“英式中文”并不可笑。可笑的是中国人讲“英式中文”、写“英式中文”。

关于 Shanghainese,下面这个链接很有意思。此时想起侯宝林说相声时说过,“剃完头统统都要‘打’(汏)头的”。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/上海话


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
英式中文 Apr 9, 2010

ysun wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin,

Take a gander at this one. It's like decoding Morse code ...icon_biggrin.gif

其实,那些例子不能算“英式中文”。我所指的“英式中文”是指“给多点空间别人”、“感谢先”之类的中国人讲的中文。外国人说“英式中文”并不可笑。可笑的是中国人讲“英式中文”、写“英式中文”。



Indeed. That bastardized exchange was probably a couple of visiting college students having some fun with the Chinese language they just learned.icon_biggrin.gif

I know exactly what you mean about 中国人讲“英式中文”、写“英式中文”。 It's been an on-going theme(or bone of contention) of many threads in this forum. And ironically, quite often it's the colleagues residing in China who couldn't see the uncouthness(goofiness) of using the Chinese language in that fashion -- 用文革时期的话来讲, 是不少人 "中毒太深" 了呀. icon_biggrin.gif 又可曰 "不识庐山真面目,只缘身在此山中".

Of course I'm just kidding about quoting 苏轼 in this context.icon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2010-04-10 16:50 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
George Orwell 写于 1946 Apr 11, 2010

http://xahlee.org/p/george_orwell_english.html



Now, it is clear that the decline of a language must ultimately have political and economic causes: it is not due simply to the bad influence of this or that individual writer. But an effect can become a cause, reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified form, and so on indefinitely. A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks. It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts. The point is that the process is reversible. Modern English, especially written English, is full of bad habits which spread by imitation and which can be avoided if one is willing to take the necessary trouble. If one gets rid of these habits one can think more clearly, and to think clearly is a necessary first step towards political regeneration: so that the fight against bad English is not frivolous and is not the exclusive concern of professional writers.



 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Chinese to English
+ ...
Same article, different link Apr 11, 2010

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm



I said earlier that the decadence of our language is probably curable. Those who deny this would argue, if they produced an argument at all, that language merely reflects existing social conditions, and that we cannot influence its development by any direct tinkering with words and constructions. So far as the general tone or spirit of a language goes, this may be true, but it is not true in detail. Silly words and expressions have often disappeared, not through any evolutionary process but owing to the conscious action of a minority. Two recent examples were explore every avenue and leave no stone unturned, which were killed by the jeers of a few journalists. There is a long list of flyblown metaphors which could similarly be got rid of if enough people would interest themselves in the job; and it should also be possible to laugh the not un- formation out of existence*, to reduce the amount of Latin and Greek in the average sentence, to drive out foreign phrases


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*One can cure oneself of the not un- formation by memorizing this sentence: A not unblack dog was chasing a not unsmall rabbit across a not ungreen field.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and strayed scientific words, and, in general, to make pretentiousness unfashionable. But all these are minor points. The defense of the English language implies more than this, and perhaps it is best to start by saying what it does not imply.

To begin with it has nothing to do with archaism, with the salvaging of obsolete words and turns of speech, or with the setting up of a "standard English" which must never be departed from. On the contrary, it is especially concerned with the scrapping of every word or idiom which has outworn its usefulness. It has nothing to do with correct grammar and syntax, which are of no importance so long as one makes one's meaning clear, or with the avoidance of Americanisms, or with having what is called a "good prose style." On the other hand, it is not concerned with fake simplicity and the attempt to make written English colloquial. Nor does it even imply in every case preferring the Saxon word to the Latin one, though it does imply using the fewest and shortest words that will cover one's meaning. What is above all needed is to let the meaning choose the word, and not the other way around. In prose, the worst thing one can do with words is surrender to them. When you think of a concrete object, you think wordlessly, and then, if you want to describe the thing you have been visualizing you probably hunt about until you find the exact words that seem to fit it. When you think of something abstract you are more inclined to use words from the start, and unless you make a conscious effort to prevent it, the existing dialect will come rushing in and do the job for you, at the expense of blurring or even changing your meaning. Probably it is better to put off using words as long as possible and get one's meaning as clear as one can through pictures and sensations. Afterward one can choose -- not simply accept -- the phrases that will best cover the meaning, and then switch round and decide what impressions one's words are likely to make on another person. This last effort of the mind cuts out all stale or mixed images, all prefabricated phrases, needless repetitions, and humbug and vagueness generally. But one can often be in doubt about the effect of a word or a phrase, and one needs rules that one can rely on when instinct fails ...





洋八股必须废止,空洞抽象的调头必须少唱,教条主义必须休息,而代之以新鲜活泼的、为中国老百姓所喜闻乐见的中国作风和中国气派。

-- 毛泽东 《反对党八股》





[Edited at 2010-04-11 18:38 GMT]


 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

老外要拯救“中式英语”

Advanced search






PerfectIt consistency checker
Faster Checking, Greater Accuracy

PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.

More info »
memoQ translator pro
Kilgray's memoQ is the world's fastest developing integrated localization & translation environment rendering you more productive and efficient.

With our advanced file filters, unlimited language and advanced file support, memoQ translator pro has been designed for translators and reviewers who work on their own, with other translators or in team-based translation projects.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search