Was the following text written by a native Chinese speaker?
Thread poster: Vadim Zubakhin
Mar 6, 2011

第一章
Chapter 1



迈克有一只狗
Mike has a dog

单词
Words


1. 黑 - black
2. 四 - four
3. 很多 - many, much
4. 大 - big
5. 星级 - (diminutive, used with hotel***) star
6. 酒店- hotel
7. 酒店- hotels
8. 和/与- and
9. 我- I
10. 一- one
11. 他- his;
他的床- his bed
12. 猫- cat
13. 书- book
14. 好- nice
15. 床- beds
16. 床- bed
17. 小- little
18. 有- to have
他/她/它有- he/she/it has;
他有一本书 - He has a book.
19. 我- my
20. 不- not
21. 蓝- blue
22. 鼻子- nose
23. 笔记本- notebook
24. 笔记本- notebooks
25. 新- new
26. 眼睛- eyes
27. 窗口 - windows
28. 窗口 - window
29. 眼- eye
30. 他– he
31. 他们- they
32. 公园- park
33. 公园- parks
34. 狗- dog
35. 笔- pens
36. 笔- pen
37. 房间- room
38. 房间- rooms
39. 自行车- bike
40. 梦- dream
41. 店- shop
42. 店- shops
43. 字- words
44. 字- word
45. 桌- table
46. 桌- tables
47. 学生- students
48. 学生- student
49. 这些,那些- these, those
50. 案文 - text
51. 那个- that
52. 这- this;
这本书- this book
53. 也- too
54. 街- street
55. 街- streets
56. 绿- green




迈克有一只狗 Mike has a dog

1. 这名学生有一本书。 2. 他也有一支笔。
3. 格丁尼亚有许多街道和公园。 4. 这条街有新酒店和商店。 5. 这家酒店有四星级。 6. 这酒店拥有很多漂亮的大房间。
7. 那间房间里有许多窗口。8. 这些房间没有很多窗口。 9. 这些房间有四张床。 10. 那些房间有一张床。 11. 那间房间里没有很多桌子。12. 那些房间有很多大的桌子。
13. 这条街上没有酒店。 14. 那家大商店里有很多窗口。
15. 这些学生有笔记本。 16. 他们也有笔。
17. 迈克有一本小小的黑色笔记本。 18. 亚历山大有四本新的绿色笔记本。
19. 这位学生有一辆自行车。20. 他有一辆新的蓝色自行车。 21. 马尔钦也有一辆自行车。 22. 他有很好的黑色自行车。
23. 亚历山大有一个梦想。 24. 我也有一个梦想。
25. 我没有狗。 26. 我有一只猫。 27. 我的猫有绿色可爱的眼睛。 28. 迈克没有猫。 29. 他有一只狗。 30.他的狗有一个小小的黑鼻子。
1. This student has a book. 2. He has a pen too.
3. Gdynia has many streets and parks. 4. This street has new hotels and shops. 5. This hotel has four stars. 6. This hotel has many nice big rooms.
7. That room has many windows.
8. And these rooms do not have many windows. 9. These rooms have four beds. 10. And those rooms have one bed. 11. That room does not have many tables. 12. And those rooms have many big tables.
13. This street does not have hotels. 14. That big shop has many windows.
15. These students have notebooks. 16. They have pens too.
17. Mike has one little black notebook. 18. Alexandr has four new green notebooks.
19. This student has a bike.
20. He has a new blue bike.
21. Marcin has a bike too. 22. He has a nice black bike.
23. Alexandr has a dream. 24. I have a dream too.
25. I do not have a dog. 26. I have a cat. 27. My cat has nice green eyes. 28. Mike does not have a cat. 29. He has a dog.
30. His dog has a little black nose.


第二章
Chapter two


他们住在格丁尼亚 (波兰)
They live in Gdynia (Poland)

单词
Words


1. 美国人 - American
2. 兄弟; 弟弟; 哥哥 - brother
3. 大 – big
4. 两个; 二 - two
5. 饿- hungry
我饿了- I am hungry.
6. 三明治- sandwich
7. 购买- to buy
8. 母亲- mother
9. 城市- city
10. 生活- to live
11. 我们- we
12. 她- she
13. 波兰人- Pole, Polish
14. 波兰- Poland
15. 妹妹; 姐姐- sister
16. 超级市场- supermarket
17. 现在- now
18. 你- you
19. 乌克兰- Ukraine
20. 乌克兰人- Ukrainian
21. 在- in
22. 从- from
23. 从美国来- from the USA



他们住在格丁尼亚 They live in Gdynia
1. 格丁尼亚是一个大城市。 2. 格丁尼亚是在波兰。
3. 这位是迈克。 4. 迈克是个学生。 5. 他现在在格丁尼亚。 6. 迈克是从美国来的。 7. 他是美国人。 8. 迈克有母亲、 父亲、 弟弟/哥哥和妹妹/姐姐。 9. 他们住在美国。
10. 这位是亚历山大。 11. 亚历山大也是个学生。 12. 他是从乌克兰来的。 13. 他是乌克兰人。 14. 亚历山大有一位母亲,父亲和两个姐姐/妹妹。 15. 他们住在乌克兰。
16. 迈克和亚历山大现在在一家超级市场。 17. 他们饿了。 18. 他们购买三明治。
19. 这位是琳达。 20. 琳达是波兰人。 21. 琳达也住在格丁尼亚。 22. 她不是个学生。
23. 我是学生。 24. 我来自美国。
25. 我现在在格丁尼亚。 26. 我不饿。
27. 你是个学生。 28. 你是乌克兰人。
29. 你现在不在乌克兰。 30. 你是在波兰。
31. 我们是学生。 32. 我们现在在波兰。
33. 这是一辆自行车。 34. 这辆自行车是蓝色的。
35. 这辆自行车不是新的。
36. 这是一只狗。 37. 这只狗是黑色的。 38. 这只狗不大。
39. 这些是商店。 40. 商店不大。
41. 他们很小。 42. 那家商店有很多窗口。
43. 那些商店并没有很多窗口。
44. 那只猫是在房间里。 45. 那些猫不在房间里。
1. Gdynia is a big city.
2. Gdynia is in Poland.
3. This is Mike. 4. Mike is a student. 5. He is in Gdynia now. 6. Mike is from USA.
7. He is American. 8. Mike has a mother, a father, a brother and a sister. 9. They live in USA.

10. This is Alexandr.
11. Alexandr is a student too. 12. He is from Ukraine. 13. He is Ukrainian. 14. Alexandr has a mother, a father and two sisters. 15. They live in Ukraine.
16. Mike and Alexandr are in a supermarket now. 17. They are hungry. 18. They buy sandwiches.
19. This is Linda. 20. Linda is Polish. 21. Linda lives in Gdynia too. 22. She is not a student.
23. I am a student. 24. I am from the USA. 25. I am in Gdynia now. 26. I am not hungry.

27. You are a student. 28. You are Ukrainian. 29. You are not in Ukraine now. 30. You are in Poland.
31. We are students. 32. We are in Poland now.

33. This is a bike. 34. The bike is blue. 35. The bike is not new.
36. This is a dog. 37. The dog is black. 38. The dog is not big.

39. These are shops. 40. The shops are not big. 41. They are little. 42. That shop has many windows. 43. Those shops do not have many windows.

44. That cat is in the room.
45. Those cats are not in the room.


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Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 14:11
Chinese to English
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Possibly, why? Mar 6, 2011

It’s possible. Maybe, or maybe not. It’s hard to tell from a bunch of artificial sentences, unless something is very obviously wrong.

[Edited at 2011-03-06 14:53 GMT]


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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Judging from the choices of words and structures of some of these sentences, Mar 6, 2011

I would say they were not written by a native Chinese speaker. For example, what does 那家大商店里有很多窗口(#14) mean? What does one mean by saying这家酒店有四星级? (#5)

Other problematic sentences include 22. 他有很好的黑色自行车。27. 我的猫有绿色可爱的眼睛。14. 亚历山大有一位母亲,父亲和两个姐姐/妹妹。2. 格丁尼亚是在波兰。I am not saying these are wrong but they do sound weird to me.


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Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 02:11
Chinese to English
Doesn't matter who wrote them, they're not good sentences Mar 6, 2011

Like Ambrose said, it's hard to tell whether the author was native Chinese or not. The sentences individually are just about possible, but when you put them together, they don't make much sense. I can imagine that this is the result of someone being given the sentences to translate one by one, without sufficient thought for context.

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pkchan  Identity Verified
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語言教材例句 Mar 6, 2011

不論是否出自母語譯人之手,這樣的水平僅比機械翻譯稍高,如要求不高,作為語言教材例句還可算是合格,但在日常生活語境中,是不可能這樣表達的。

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Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
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something unrelated Mar 6, 2011

I do agree that they sound a bit odd. But then most artificial sentences (or even artificial dialogues) in language courses tend to also sound a bit odd, so a small amount of oddness, unfortunately, is really to be expected. Also, as a Southerner I’m still not used to the way the Northerners write (and vice versa—the way I write probably looks a bit odd to the Northerners) so I tend to not trust my perception of oddness too much. Obviously, if something really wrong is in there, this wouldn’t matter and we all should have noticed it.

However, as course material, I’m more concerned about (1) the author apparently not knowing what the word “diminutive” means (星级 is definitely not a diminutive), and (2) the lack of explanation of words that mean the same thing in English but mean totally different things in Chinese (say, 兄弟, 哥哥 and 弟弟).

[Edited at 2011-03-06 22:08 GMT]


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lbone  Identity Verified
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As a native speaker, I have no problem understanding this translation Mar 7, 2011

I cannot tell whether the translator is a native translator, but at least I am sure the work was very possibly translated by a native translator.

The Chinese sentences, except for several of them, can be accepted by common native speakers. The several exceptions are odd, mainly because the original English sentences are odd. For example:

10. 那些房间有一张床。
10. And those rooms have one bed.

Some sentences could be further furnished, but this does not mean they are not typical Chinese sentences - you know, only a few among all Chinese people are professional writers; the sentences by most common Chinese people have small bugs here and there, but a typical native Chinese speaker can understand these imperfect sentences without any problem.

[Edited at 2011-03-07 15:04 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-03-07 16:12 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Chinese to English
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English to Chinese translation Mar 7, 2011

lbone wrote:

The several exceptions are odd, mainly because the original English sentences are odd. For example:

10. 那些房间有一张床。
10. And those rooms have one bed.



Context is important. I think in this instance the English refers to a 4-star hotel, with some of the rooms having single-bed accommodations.

I agree with you that this could be a translation by a native Chinese speaker, with a considerable amount of flaws and errors in the translation though. IMO, the Chinese text overall is inadequate, especially for the purpose of serving as a primer of Chinese as a second language.



[Edited at 2011-03-07 22:01 GMT]


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Vadim Zubakhin
TOPIC STARTER
the following text should make it obvious Mar 18, 2011

Thanks for the considerations. Then the following text should make it obvious if the translator is native speaker of Chinese:

第十一章
Chapter 11

迈克想赚钱
Mike wants to earn some money

单词
Words


1. 待续 - to be continued
2. 卡车 - truck
3. 难 - hard
4. 部分- part
5. 天 - day
6. 每日 - daily
7. 力量,能量- energy
8. 点- o’clock
9. 这是下午两点 - It is two o’clock.
10. 小时 - hour
11. 每小时 - hourly
12. 多一个 - one more
13. 完成 - finish
14. 完成- to finish
15. 装入 - to load,
16. 装载人 - loader
17. 更好- better
18. 列表- list

19. 字条,纸条, 笔记 - note
20. 号码 - number
21. 人事部门 - personnel department
22. 答案- answer, 回答- to answer
23. 可以, 很好 - OK, well
24. 后 – after
25. 理解- to understand
26. 箱子- box
27. 快, 快速- quick, quickly
28. 运输 - transport
29. 赚- to earn, 我每小时赚10元 - I earn 10 zł per hour.
30. 平时 – usual, 通常- usually


迈克想赚到钱
(第一部)

迈克每天大学课完后都有空闲的时间。 他想要赚钱。 他去职业介绍所。他们给他运输公司的地址。运输公司“快速”需要一位装载人。 这项工作非常艰难。 但他们支付每小时11元。 迈克想接受这份工作。 所以他去了运输公司的办公室。
“你好。我有一张职业介绍所的字条要给你,” 迈克告诉一名在公司人事部门工作的女子。 他把字条给了她。
“你好,” 那位女子说, “我的名字是乔安娜 科瓦尔斯卡。 我是人事部门的负责人。你叫什么名字?”
“我的名字叫迈克 沙利文,” 迈克说。
“你是波兰人吗?” 乔安娜问。
“不是。我是美国人,” 迈克回答。
“你可以说和读波兰语吗?” 乔安娜问。
“我可以,” 迈克说。
“迈克, 你几岁?” 乔安娜问。
“我二十岁”, 迈克回答。
“你要在运输公司做为装载人吗?” 人事部门的负责人问他。
迈克不好意思说他不能有更好的工作,因为他不能讲好波兰语。 所以他说: ‘我想每小时赚11元。”
“好, 好”, 乔安娜说, “我们的运输公司通常没有很多装入工作。 但现在,我们真的很需要多一位装载人。 你能快速把二十公斤的箱装入吗?”
“是的, 我能。 我有很多的力量,” 迈克回答。
“我们每天需要一位装载人三个小时。你能从四点钟至七点钟做工吗?” 乔安娜问。
“我能, 我的课程在一点钟结束”, 那位学生回答她。
“你什么时候可以开始工作?” 人事部门的负责人问他。
“我现在就可以开始,” 迈克回答。
“好。 看看这个装入列表。 有一些公司和商店的名称在这列表中,”乔安娜解释说。 “每间公司和商店都有一些号码。 它们是箱子的号码。 而这些号码都是你必须要装入的卡车的号码。 卡车在每小时来回。 因此,你需要快速的工作。可以吗?”
“可以,” 迈克回答, 但不能充分的理解乔安娜。
“现在拿这个装入列表并转到装载出入口的第三号,” 人事部门的负责人告诉迈克。 迈克拿了装入列表就去上班了。

( 待续 )



Mike wants to earn some money
(part 1)
Mike has free time daily after college. He wants to earn some money. He heads to a job agency. They give him the address of a transport firm. The transport firm Rapid needs a loader. This work is really hard. But they pay 11 złoty per hour. Mike wants to take this job. So he goes to the office of the transport firm.
“Hello. I have a note for you from a job agency,” Mike says to a woman in the personnel department of the firm. He gives her the note.
“Hello,” the woman says, “My name is Joanna Kowalska. I am the head of the personnel department. What is your name?”
“My name is Mike Sullivan” Mike says.
“Are you Polish?” Joanna asks.
“No. I am American,” Mike answers.
“Can you speak and read Polish well?” Joanna asks.
“Yes, I can,” says Mike.
“How old are you, Mike?” Joanna asks.
“I am twenty years old,” Mike answers.
“Do you want to work at the transport firm as a loader?” the head of the personnel department asks him.
Mike is ashamed to say that he cannot have a better job because he cannot speak Polish well. So he says: “I want to earn 11 złoty per hour.”
“Well-well,” Joanna says, “Our transport firm usually does not have much loading work. But now we really need one more loader. Can you load quickly boxes with 20 kilograms of load?”
“Yes, I can. I have a lot of energy,” Mike answers.
“We need a loader daily for three hours. Can you work from four to seven o’clock?” Joanna asks.
“Yes, my lessons finish at one o’clock,” the student answers to her.
“When can you begin the work?” the head of the personnel department asks him.
“I can begin now,” Mike answers.
“Well. Look at this loading list. There are some names of firms and shops in the list,” Joanna explains, “Every firm and shop has some numbers. They are numbers of the boxes. And these are numbers of the trucks where you must load these boxes. The trucks come and go hourly. So you need to work quickly. OK?”
“OK,” Mike answers, not understanding Joanna well.
“Now take this loading list and go to the loading door number three,” the head of the personnel department says to Mike. Mike takes the loading list and goes to work.

(to be continued)


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ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:11
English to Chinese
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No Mar 18, 2011

Vadim Zubakhin wrote:

Thanks for the considerations. Then the following text should make it obvious if the translator is native speaker of Chinese:

I don't think the translator is a native speaker of Chinese.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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My opinion Mar 18, 2011

ysun wrote:

Vadim Zubakhin wrote:

Thanks for the considerations. Then the following text should make it obvious if the translator is native speaker of Chinese:

I don't think the translator is a native speaker of Chinese.



I agree. It's very dubious. But even if the person was native, there's a lot of room for improvement in his or her mastery of standard Mandarin.

IMO, the fact that the text was translated from Polish --> English --> Chinese made matters even worse.


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ysun  Identity Verified
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Local time: 13:11
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Just a few examples Mar 18, 2011

Vadim Zubakhin wrote:

“迈克, 你几岁?” 乔安娜问。
“我二十岁”, 迈克回答。
“你要在运输公司做为装载人吗?” 人事部门的负责人问他。
迈克不好意思说他不能有更好的工作,因为他不能讲好波兰语。 所以他说: ‘我想每小时赚11元。”
“好, 好”, 乔安娜说, “我们的运输公司通常没有很多装入工作。 但现在,我们真的很需要多一位装载人。 你能快速把二十公斤的箱装入吗?”
“是的, 我能。 我有很多的力量,” 迈克回答。
“我们每天需要一位装载人三个小时。你能从四点钟至七点钟做工吗?” 乔安娜问。
“我能, 我的课程在一点钟结束”, 那位学生回答她。

I would change the above into the following:

“迈克, 你多大了?” 乔安娜问。(Usually, we would ask “你几岁?”only when asking a child.)
“我二十。” 迈克回答。
“你想来运输公司当装卸工吗?” 人事部主任问他。
迈克不好意思说因为他讲不好波兰话才找不到更好的工作,因此他说: “我想干每小时挣11元钱的活。”
“不过, ” 乔安娜说, “我们运输公司通常没有多少装货的活。 但现在,我们确实需要增加一名装卸工。 你能把那些20公斤重的箱子很快装上车吗?”
“我能。我力气很大。” 迈克回答。
“我们需要一名装卸工每天工作3小时。你能在4点至7点期间工作吗?” 乔安娜问。
“我能, 我一点钟下课。” 那学生回答她。


[Edited at 2011-03-19 01:06 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:11
English to Chinese
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Not a sufficient prerequisite Mar 18, 2011

wherestip wrote:

I agree. It's very dubious. But even if the person was native, there's a lot of room for improvement in his or her mastery of standard Mandarin.

I agree. No matter whether the translator is a native speaker of Chinese or not, I would like to say that a native speaker is NOT necessarily able to provide a sound translation in his/her mother tongue.


[Edited at 2011-03-18 19:35 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Chinese to English
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Teaching and Learning Chinese Mar 19, 2011

Vadim,

I agree with Yueyin that being a native Chinese speaker is not an automatic stamp of approval in regard to one's proficiency in the Chinese language. It certainly, by itself, is not a sufficient factor for someone to qualify as a Chinese language teacher.

Many people write as they speak. To these folks, the written word is but a record of the spoken word. Given China's vast diversity in regional and local dialects, even for a native-born Chinese, it requires a lot of conscientious language learning, beginning from childhood and continuing into young adulthood, to be able to both speak well and write well in standard Chinese.

Sadly, IMO, the sample texts you provided above do not show a whole lot of promise. As one can see from the previous posts, there seems to be a consensus in this regard.

The following link might help you understand some of the issues involved.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese


With the fast development of China, more Chinese people leaving rural areas for cities for job or study opportunities, and the Putonghua Evaluation Exam (普通话水平测试) has quickly become popular. Many university graduates take this exam before looking for a job. Employers often require varying proficiency in Standard Chinese from applicants depending on the nature of the positions. Applicants of some positions, e.g. telephone operators, may be required to obtain a certificate. People raised in Beijing are sometimes considered inherently 1-A (一级甲等)(Error rate: lower than 3%) and exempted from this requirement.[citation needed] As for the rest, the score of 1-A is rare. According to the official definition of proficiency levels, people who get 1-B (Error rate: lower than 8%) are considered qualified to work as television correspondents or in broadcasting stations.[citation needed] 2-A (Error rate: lower than 13%) can work as Chinese Literature Course teachers in public schools.[citation needed] Other levels include: 2-B (Error rate: lower than 20%), 3-A (Error rate: lower than 30%) and 3-B (Error rate: lower than 40%). In China, a proficiency of level 3-B usually cannot be achieved unless special training is received. Even if many Chinese do not speak with standard pronunciation, spoken Standard Chinese is widely understood to some degree.




[Edited at 2011-03-20 11:11 GMT]


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The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

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PerfectIt consistency checker
Faster Checking, Greater Accuracy

PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.

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