| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | There is no business like an interpretation business in China! Thread poster: Kevin Yang
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 05:21
English to Chinese
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| HymnLau 推荐了一篇很好的文章。 | Apr 29, 2004 |
First of all, I must clarify that I never tried to do simultaneous interpretation. When two different U.S. agencies contacted me a few months ago for the same simultaneous interpretation job at a conference about petrochemical technology in SFO ($1,000/day + travel expense), I honestly told them that I could only do consecutive interpretation. Nevertheless, I have done a lot of consecutive interpretation in my career and I can do it very well.
As to the age issue, I believe it w... See more First of all, I must clarify that I never tried to do simultaneous interpretation. When two different U.S. agencies contacted me a few months ago for the same simultaneous interpretation job at a conference about petrochemical technology in SFO ($1,000/day + travel expense), I honestly told them that I could only do consecutive interpretation. Nevertheless, I have done a lot of consecutive interpretation in my career and I can do it very well.
As to the age issue, I believe it would become more and more difficult for interpreters to perform the real-sense simultaneous interpretation when they become over 35. However, when the interpreters are too young, they don’t have enough experience. Therefore, the career as a simultaneous interpreter is very short as for most of athletes.
至于那篇"年进帐四五十万”的报导，我同意BinLi和其他一些朋友的看法：“新闻追求轰动效应，不可尽信”。该报导漏洞很多，例如，“高木原来是一家医疗器械企业的白领，离开公司后，经朋友介绍来到了现在的翻译公司。” 我认为同声译的工作并非是谁头脑一热想干就能干的。再如，同声译员工作时是带着耳机待在透明的隔音室里，你怎能听见他“谈吐风趣幽默”？我所看到的同声译员都是全神关注、脸上毫无表情的，连紧张都来不及，那还有心思谈笑风生？
HymnLau 推荐了一篇很好的文章。从中可见，想成为一名同声译员，谈何容易！据我所知，联合国同声译员的年薪确是"年进帐”几十万美元。我上次提到的那位朋友当时就是被中国外交部千里挑一选送到中国外交学院深造，准备输送到联合国担任同声译员的。最后，他们那一期中只有一、两位才有幸到联合国工作。当然，其他人中仍不乏很杰出的翻译或外交官。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Have to disagree here on the age issue... | Apr 30, 2004 |
Yueyin Sun wrote:
First of all, I must clarify that I never tried to do simultaneous interpretation. When two different U.S. agencies contacted me a few months ago for the same simultaneous interpretation job at a conference about petrochemical technology in SFO ($1,000/day + travel expense), I honestly told them that I could only do consecutive interpretation. Nevertheless, I have done a lot of consecutive interpretation in my career and I can do it very well.
As to the age issue, I believe it would become more and more difficult for interpreters to perform the real-sense simultaneous interpretation when they become over 35. However, when the interpreters are too young, they don’t have enough experience. Therefore, the career as a simultaneous interpreter is very short as for most of athletes.
Simultaneous and consecutive are completely separate skills, and you are quite correct not to accept work in SI if you have no experience or training in it (particularly petrochemical engineering!!! Woo!!)
I think that most people who have not had any training in SI have some misconceptions about it. Yes, it is about speed of reactions to some degree -- many people who are excellent translators can't really interpret well in either CI or SI because they simply don't move rapidly enough between languages even for CI, and many people who are good at CI aren't able to do SI. But it's not all about speed. Since we know that you simply cannot express everything the speaker is saying if the speed is over about 150 wpm, besides saying things quickly in SI, another very important part is to decide WHAT to say and what to (purposely) leave out. This involves a very rapid logical filter and prioritization of the speaker's points and evidence. While sheer speed might be better earlier in life, the older a qualified interpreter gets, absent other problems (hearing loss, breathing problems, etc. etc.) the more experience he gains in handling difficult speakers, the more background knowledge he has on common conference topics, the more he knows about the world in general and how it works. And of course, if he's diligent, the better his languages will be. All these things contribute GREATLY to a polished and professional performance in SI. I'm 39 now and have gone back to school after some years as an interpreter to do an MA program in conference interpreting, and for the last three consecutive semesters, I've ranked first among our classmates in exams. And the oldest is 10 years younger than I am...many are considerably younger. My real-world experience and my greater stock of knowledge about how things generally work both act greatly in my favor.
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 05:21
English to Chinese
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| My policy - Always be honest! | Apr 30, 2004 |
I didn't accept the $1,000/day SI job simply because I didn't want to 滥竽充数. It is not because it's in petrochemical engineering. Petrochemical engineering may be particularly difficult for some interpreters, but it is not so difficult for me. The first time I acted as an interpreter was in 1981 when I worked as a chemical project engineer for the technology Import Department of Lanzhou Chemical Company, the very first large-scale petrochemical company in China. The company purchased ... See more I didn't accept the $1,000/day SI job simply because I didn't want to 滥竽充数. It is not because it's in petrochemical engineering. Petrochemical engineering may be particularly difficult for some interpreters, but it is not so difficult for me. The first time I acted as an interpreter was in 1981 when I worked as a chemical project engineer for the technology Import Department of Lanzhou Chemical Company, the very first large-scale petrochemical company in China. The company purchased Millisecond Furnace technology from M.W. Kellogg Company (now called Kellogg Brown & Root Company under Halliburton Company). In a series of technical meetings, I was asked by the interpreter himself to take over the interpretation job just because he couldn't cope with the technical concepts and terms any more (he was the number one professional interpreter in the company though).
I searched a service directory of a U.S. interpreter's organization and found more than 100 English > Chinese interpreters. Most of them declare they are able to do simultaneous interpretation. Frankly speaking, I doubt about it. I am afraid some of them may not know what SI really means. I know some people will not like what I said, but if you do something that you are not able to do or to do well, it would really be a “torture”! My policy is always being honest. Otherwise, people won't believe you next time even when you are going to tell the truth. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | An excellent policy! | Apr 30, 2004 |
Sounds like you are not only experienced but also possessed of excellent business ethics.
The other thing that really gets me (please don't be offended!) is people who claim to work into English when they are not native speakers...that's been discussed/argued about elsewhere, but still, my view is that when you represent to a client that you are going to do a translation, you are claiming it will be of a flawless nat... See more Sounds like you are not only experienced but also possessed of excellent business ethics.
The other thing that really gets me (please don't be offended!) is people who claim to work into English when they are not native speakers...that's been discussed/argued about elsewhere, but still, my view is that when you represent to a client that you are going to do a translation, you are claiming it will be of a flawless nature. (This is why I don't work into Chinese on written work!!) Some of the KudoZ questions that appear occasionally make me wonder... 8-0 ▲ Collapse
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ysun
United States
Local time: 05:21
English to Chinese
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| A "native speaker" is neither a 必要条件 nor a 充分条件！ | Apr 30, 2004 |
I talked about honesty just because Kevin got an impression that I had experiences in SI, but I never said I had. If I kept silent, that would mean I have admitted having such experiences. Meanwhile, I doubt about the listings that there are nearly 100 En>Ch and nearly 100 Ch>En simultaneous interpreters in the United States. Some of them even give others an impression that he or she is able to do SI both En>Ch or Ch>En. It might be more convincing if someone changes his or her advertising t... See more I talked about honesty just because Kevin got an impression that I had experiences in SI, but I never said I had. If I kept silent, that would mean I have admitted having such experiences. Meanwhile, I doubt about the listings that there are nearly 100 En>Ch and nearly 100 Ch>En simultaneous interpreters in the United States. Some of them even give others an impression that he or she is able to do SI both En>Ch or Ch>En. It might be more convincing if someone changes his or her advertising to, e.g., “consecutive (En>Ch), simultaneous (Ch>En)”.
The discussion about “native speakers" is rather far from the topic of this forum. If Terry would like to discuss that issue, I suggest opening another forum on the topic.
To be brief, I just want to say that I claim to be able to translate from Chinese into English in CERTAIN fields just because my capability has been well recognized by many translation agencies. My English is not perfect, but it works well. However, I have turned down many job offers for translating something that I am not familiar with, including translating into Chinese although I am a native Chinese speaker.
Ideally, a native speaker is preferred if and only if other abilities of the translators are the same or similar. However, quite often, it would be difficult to find such an ideal translator. Moreover, it is more important for a translator to understand the content in the source language than to be a native speaker in the target language. Otherwise, no matter how beautiful the target document may look, it may be talking about something else that is quite different from the content of the source document. I have edited such documents translated by native speakers.
Someone may be able to translate Shakespeare's Hamlet very well into his native language, but unable to translate Einstein's theory at all. Just do what you can! ▲ Collapse
| | | | isahuang
Local time: 06:21
English to Chinese
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| One is at his best with his native language. | May 1, 2004 |
Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:
The other thing that really gets me (please don't be offended!) is people who claim to work into English when they are not native speakers...that's been discussed/argued about elsewhere,
I completely agree with you on this point, especially in SI. I remember my native Chinese classmates were advised to concentrate only on E to C in SI, and leave the other part of SI to native English speakers with excellent command of Chinese. I feel the same way Yueyin does. A lot of translators/interpreters claim they can do SI. I really doubt about that.
On the other hand, I am very glad to know that age is not really a problem in SI. Actually, I just realized that some of my teachers are very active SI interpreters, and they are over 40. Now I am really encouraged, because I am pushing away 30 and I plan to go back to school to finish my degree in CI.
| | | | | I didn't mean in interpreting, but for translation | May 1, 2004 |
Hey all,
The point I'm making about native speaker-ness does not necessarily apply to interpretation. Those who work in Chinese or Japanese are EXPECTED to work in both directions -- indeed, there are so few English-A interpreters with Chinese in their combination that it would be impossible to always have a native English speaker work into English!
The other major point is that interpretation is the spoken word, not the written word. There is considerably larger scope for re... See more Hey all,
The point I'm making about native speaker-ness does not necessarily apply to interpretation. Those who work in Chinese or Japanese are EXPECTED to work in both directions -- indeed, there are so few English-A interpreters with Chinese in their combination that it would be impossible to always have a native English speaker work into English!
The other major point is that interpretation is the spoken word, not the written word. There is considerably larger scope for restatement and so forth, as the idea is to express the meaning -- rapidly and accurately. A written translation creates an artefact that can be reviewed and read over and over; a spoken sentence is said and gone. Very few people can even repeat the last full sentence they themselves said, let alone remember every word (and every minute error) an interpreter makes into his "B" language (assuming the interpreter is otherwise trained and competent, small errors are acceptable when working into the "B").
Translations are completely different for another reason: it's not uncommon for a person to achieve a very, very native-like command of his second language in the spoken form, but far, far less common for a person to be a powerful and flexible writer in two or more languages, let alone to be a translator with this ability.
I feel, though, that both translators and interpreters are like fine wines: we improve with age, and accumulate more experience and knowledge along the way. So there's no reason not to start even if you're "over 30" or even older. I know translators who started learning a third language in their 40s, knowing that even after 10 or 15 years of study, they would still have plenty of time to make money with it!
So aren't we all lucky we're not basketball stars or pro tennis players? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Yang
Local time: 03:21
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | No comment to the OUTLINE? | May 1, 2004 |
Hey, All Yall translators and interpreters (How is my Texasan impersonation?)
I am having fun reading everyone's messages here. Great discussion! However, no one mentioned anything about my newly revised outline. I guess “No comment” is a comment. It is very typical in the Chinese Forum and I am used to it.
Let’s keep the focus on the simultaneous interpretation in this folder. However, Terry did bring up an interesting point about the English translation by the n... See more Hey, All Yall translators and interpreters (How is my Texasan impersonation?)
I am having fun reading everyone's messages here. Great discussion! However, no one mentioned anything about my newly revised outline. I guess “No comment” is a comment. It is very typical in the Chinese Forum and I am used to it.
Let’s keep the focus on the simultaneous interpretation in this folder. However, Terry did bring up an interesting point about the English translation by the non-native English speakers. It can be a great topic. I would love to see some discussions on that one! Terry, could you please post it out in another folder and let’s talk about it.
My understanding about the age factor is that simultaneous interpretation can be a “brain frying” experience. The exhaustive nature of such job is well-known. Mental fatigue does play a role. The younger people have the energy and endurance. But the disadvantage is their knowledge base and the command of both languages involved in SI. I know this is not always true. The key consideration of selecting an SI interpreter should focus on the adequate training, SI experience and accumulated knowledge to the given subject. Perhaps the middle aged people are a safer choice. As for the lady who reached 72 years old and still served as a SI interpreter, that was simply amazing to me! By the way, you people revealed some top secret here by accident. Terry is 39, Ting Ting is 30-something. It was so painful for me to find out yall all are younger than me. I am 44! So be sure to show me the respect.
Kevin
[Edited at 2004-05-01 09:14] ▲ Collapse
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ysun
United States
Local time: 05:21
English to Chinese
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| Just a suggestion | May 2, 2004 |
Terry,
Since you are a Ph.D. in Chinese, if your Chinese is near native, I don't see any reasons why you “don't work into Chinese on written work”. There are not many translators with Ph.D. in Chinese even in China, Taiwan and Singapore!
Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:
The other thing that really gets me (please don't be offended!) is people who claim to work into English when they are not native speakers...that's been discussed/argued about elsewhere, but still, my view is that when you represent to a client that you are going to do a translation, you are claiming it will be of a flawless nature. (This is why I don't work into Chinese on written work!!) Some of the KudoZ questions that appear occasionally make me wonder... 8-0
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 05:21
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Can a native speaker guarantee her or his translation is flawless? | May 4, 2004 |
Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:
The other thing that really gets me (please don't be offended!) is people who claim to work into English when they are not native speakers...that's been discussed/argued about elsewhere, but still, my view is that when you represent to a client that you are going to do a translation, you are claiming it will be of a flawless nature. (This is why I don't work into Chinese on written work!!) Some of the KudoZ questions that appear occasionally make me wonder... 8-0
Terry,
In my opinion, flawless translation is only an ideal state or a goal that we try our best to reach. In reality, no one can guarantee her or his translation is flawless. No matter how perfect you think your translation is, other translators would still find some flaws in it. That's why we need a proofreader/editor to minimize the flaws in translation.
Since you mention that some of the KudoZ questions that appear occasionally make you wonder, let me ask you this question (please don't be offended!): as a native English speaker, can you guarantee all of your answers to Chinese > English KudoZ questions are flawless?
For Chinese > English KudoZ questions, my current rank is 5th in overall and 1st in Tech/Engineering filed. Even so, my successful rate is still only 75% (I answered 153 Chinese > English questions, only 114 were selected). (I don't know what your successful rate is.)
The Kudoz website is getting better and better. Everyone is able to check a member's rank and Kudoz history unless the member hides it.
| | | | Kevin Yang
Local time: 03:21
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Our intended discussion here is about simultaneous interpretation. | May 5, 2004 |
Yueyin,
I think your last two messages are all discussing about the appropriateness for a translator who is not a native speaker of one language but claims to be able to translate it and/or translate it anyway, resulted with the translation offered making the native speakers wonder. As I suggested previously, this is a great topic for further discussion. Let’s post it under a new topic in another folder. I am afraid such discussion will distract the focus of our intended discussio... See more Yueyin,
I think your last two messages are all discussing about the appropriateness for a translator who is not a native speaker of one language but claims to be able to translate it and/or translate it anyway, resulted with the translation offered making the native speakers wonder. As I suggested previously, this is a great topic for further discussion. Let’s post it under a new topic in another folder. I am afraid such discussion will distract the focus of our intended discussion on simultaneous interpretation.
Kevin ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Check out the AIIC website | May 7, 2004 |
Well, if you want the latest, cutting-edge information on real professional simultaneous interpreting, I can recommend the AIIC website (www.aiic.net).
There are a lot of useful links there, including a very long article recently posted on professionalism in interpretation -- everything from contracting to ethics to performance to working conditions and more. It's free and you can even e-mail articles t... See more Well, if you want the latest, cutting-edge information on real professional simultaneous interpreting, I can recommend the AIIC website (www.aiic.net).
There are a lot of useful links there, including a very long article recently posted on professionalism in interpretation -- everything from contracting to ethics to performance to working conditions and more. It's free and you can even e-mail articles to yourself or others if they interest you.
The article was written originally by a very experienced ChineseEnglish interpreter and has been through "checks" and comments by many people high-up in AIIC. It's a good one. I think you'll like it! ▲ Collapse
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| And I'll continue to be... | May 7, 2004 |
Kevin Yang wrote: My understanding about the age factor is that simultaneous interpretation can be a “brain frying” experience. The exhaustive nature of such job is well-known. Mental fatigue does play a role. The younger people have the energy and endurance. But the disadvantage is their knowledge base and the command of both languages involved in SI. I know this is not always true. The key consideration of selecting an SI interpreter should focus on the adequate training, SI experience and accumulated knowledge to the given subject. Perhaps the middle aged people are a safer choice. As for the lady who reached 72 years old and still served as a SI interpreter, that was simply amazing to me! By the way, you people revealed some top secret here by accident. Terry is 39, Ting Ting is 30-something. It was so painful for me to find out yall all are younger than me. I am 44! So be sure to show me the respect.
Respected Moderator-guy:
(Is that respectful enough? )
First, remember that I will now ALWAYS, PERPETUALLY be 39 years old, being a lady and all. We never get older than 39 in the West! (Some people never make it past 29!) After that, we merely celebrate anniversaries of our 39th birthday. I've got one coming up soon, I believe!
As for the age question, I was talking the othe day to an AIIC interpreter who works in ChineseEnglish at high levels and is a well-known trainer as well. I mentioned our discussion on age and SI, and his answer was, "Too old after 35? I wouldn't like to use an interpreter who was UNDER 35 for SI. They don't know enough."
(After that comment, I bought his beer.)
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 05:21
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Former premier Zhu Rongji used SIs who were under 30! | May 7, 2004 |
Terry L. Thatcher, Ph.D. wrote:
As for the age question, I was talking the othe day to an AIIC interpreter who works in ChineseEnglish at high levels and is a well-known trainer as well. I mentioned our discussion on age and SI, and his answer was, "Too old after 35? I wouldn't like to use an interpreter who was UNDER 35 for SI. They don't know enough."
(After that comment, I bought his beer.)
I wouldn't say people over 35 are too old for SI. However, I believe it would become more and more difficult for them to perform SI when they are over 35. Their reaction would become slower and memory would become poorer. It is a law of Mother Nature. The career of a simultaneous interpreter is very similar to that of a gymnast in some aspects. Of course, there might be exceptions such as supermen or superwomen.
Once Premier Zhu Rongji attended an international meeting held in the Great Hall of the People. All three simultaneous interpreters working at the meeting seemed to be under 30. Mr. Zhu made an impromptu speech and then the interpretation became consecutive. No matter for how long Mr. Zhu spoke, the interpreter just took his notes in shorthand and never interrupted Mr. Zhu's speech. When Mr. Zhu came to a pause, the interpreter started interpreting without missing anything. The young interpreter proved to be an excellent one for both SI and CI.
Some people like to flatter others, but I like to tell my true opinions. However, true opinions are often not welcome. Different people may have different definitions of "SI". Maybe someday, I would also try “SI” for my grandchildren when they are watching Disney cartoons!
[Edited at 2004-05-07 14:41]
| | | | | It's just not true; I'm afraid you don't have enough data | May 8, 2004 |
Yueyin Sun wrote:
I wouldn't say people over 35 are too old for SI. However, I believe it would become more and more difficult for them to perform SI when they are over 35. Their reaction would become slower and memory would become poorer. It is a law of Mother Nature. The career of a simultaneous interpreter is very similar to that of a gymnast in some aspects. Of course, there might be exceptions such as supermen or superwomen.
Well, all I can say is I don't believe you work with many interpreters and probably don't have much experience with interpreter training and practice. There is a lot more going on in interpretation than quick reactions, although that is the aspect of SI that most often catches the imaginations of those who don't do it.
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