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簡單而又常被譯得不明不白的單詞
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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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Jul 24, 2011

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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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签名下的PRINT

从印刷到"正楷",算是有了点进化, 但还是不准确. 工工整整,一笔一画地写才是准确的译法.


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ysun  Identity Verified
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印刷体 Jul 25, 2011

jyuan_us wrote:

签名下的PRINT

从印刷到"正楷",算是有了点进化, 但还是不准确. 工工整整,一笔一画地写才是准确的译法.

我个人认为将 PRINT 译为“印刷体”比较简单明了。有时,签名者也许宁愿或不得不用英文签名。在此情况下,“正楷”显然毫无意义。


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Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
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印刷體?? Jul 25, 2011

我從來沒聽過「印刷體」,如果看見,也不會明白。

在我的原居地,Please print 從來都是譯「請以正楷填寫」的。英文寫「正楷」也不覺得有何問題:「正楷」就是與「草書」相對,英文不用「草書」,就是「print」。

事實上,print 的結果也未必是一筆筆工整的填寫。「工整」當然是理想情況,但我聽我曾居住的某市的市立圖書館的館員告訴我,一般人(指西人,那是個小鎮)print 時根本一點也不工整。

[Edited at 2011-07-25 06:41 GMT]


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Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
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请端正书写 Jul 25, 2011

我一般都把"print"译成这样,比较易懂一些。或者“请工整书写”也可以。

[Edited at 2011-07-25 06:40 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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能否請你說明一下 Jul 25, 2011

你所説的「原居地」是指哪裡?
Ambrose Li wrote:

我從來沒聽過「印刷體」,如果看見,也不會明白。

在我的原居地,Please print 從來都是譯「請以正楷填寫」的。英文寫「正楷」也不覺得有何問題:「正楷」就是與「草書」相對,英文不用「草書」,就是「print」。

事實上,print 的結果也未必是一筆筆工整的填寫。「工整」當然是理想情況,但我聽我曾居住的某市的市立圖書館的館員告訴我,一般人(指西人,那是個小鎮)print 時根本一點也不工整。

[Edited at 2011-07-25 06:41 GMT]


[Edited at 2011-07-25 13:04 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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"印刷体" Jul 25, 2011

http://baike.baidu.com/view/420865.htm



印刷体指汉字在书籍、报纸、杂志等印刷品上出现的字体形式,它是为读者阅读服务的,说得文一点就是为了“目治”,所以,它的笔画、结体都以让读者醒目舒适、节省视力为第一要义。举印刷体中用得最多的宋体为例,它横细竖粗、结体端庄、疏密适当、字迹清晰。读者长时间阅读宋体,不容易疲劳,所以书籍报刊的正文一般都用宋体刊印。


为什么要分书写体和印刷体?

简单的说
印刷体是固定的,相同的字每一个都一样,字距和行距都一样
而手写体可以说,相同的字每一个都不一样,越是写的好的人,在同一篇文章里,同一个字的写法都不一样,看看王羲之的《兰亭序》句知道了
印刷品的要求是:可读性第一,也就是说在印刷品上文字的阅读性是最重要的,印刷体的字利于阅读,而手写的字由于每一个都不一样,读起来很累,不适合印刷和广泛传播
所以要分书写体和印刷体



我觉得 please print 翻为 “请用印刷体”、“请用楷书填写”、“请清晰端正填写” 都很好。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Cursive vs. Print Jul 25, 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive



In the United States of America, the name "cursive" is most commonly used to describe this style of writing. In the United Kingdom and in Ireland, the phrase "joined-up writing", "real writing" or "joint writing" is far more commonly used, while the term "running writing" or just "cursive" is most commonly used in Australia. Cursive is also commonly known as simply "handwriting" in Canada, New Zealand, and the US. Cursive is considered distinct from the "printing" or "block letter" style of writing, in which the letters of a word are unconnected. A distinction is sometimes made between cursive hand(writing), such as the D'Nealian style, in which the risers of the letters are slanted loops, and letters such as f, r, s, z, D, F, G, L, Q are quite distinct in shape from their printed counterparts, and italic hand(writing), such as the Getty-Dubay style, also called print-writing, in which the risers are slanted straight lines and the letters are essentially printed letters joined together.


...

Cursive Chinese

Cursive forms of Chinese characters are used in calligraphy; "running script" is the semi-cursive form and "grass script" is the cursive. The running aspect of this script has more to do with the formation and connectedness of strokes within an individual character than with connections between characters as in Western connected cursive. The latter are rare in Hanzi and the derived Japanese Kanji characters which are usually well separated by the writer.




http://donpotter.net/PDF/Cursive%20First.pdf
http://community.comcast.net/t5/The-Coffee-Shop-General/Print-vs-Cursive/td-p/291634


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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用印刷體與正楷及ink Jul 25, 2011

遇過不少從農村出來的鄉親,根本不知道什麼是“印刷體”與“正楷”,會問你怎樣去“印刷”出來,或“正楷”是不是指不能用簡體字等。特別是對用“ink”填寫,是最大問題,因為“墨水筆”故然是難找,“墨水”更難。這一切皆因是受我們的行家“誤導”所至。其實說用“黑色筆“,”清楚書寫”已經足夠了,人人都會明白,而且達到目的。

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ysun  Identity Verified
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应求助于他人 Jul 25, 2011

pkchan wrote:

遇過不少從農村出來的鄉親,根本不知道什麼是“印刷體”與“正楷”,會問你怎樣去“印刷”出來,或“正楷”是不是指不能用簡體字等。

这种情况确实存在,甚至还有人连自己的姓名都不会写,而只会按手印。但是,法律文件不可能为迁就某些文化程度较低的人群而降低标准。这就是为什么某些人在填写知情同意书、移民申请、报税表之类的文件时,需要由别人帮助填写的道理。众所周知,美国许多法律文件都会专设 Preparer 这一项。

这些农村来的乡亲提出上述问题情有可原,并不可笑。可笑的是某些专门搞翻译的人居然还会把 Name (Print) 译成“姓名(打印)”。


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Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
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印刷体 Jul 25, 2011

ysun wrote:

你所説的「原居地」是指哪裡?


我的原居地和pkchan前輩一樣。

wherestip wrote:

http://baike.baidu.com/view/420865.htm



印刷体指汉字在书籍、报纸、杂志等印刷品上出现的字体形式,它是为读者阅读服务的,说得文一点就是为了“目治”,所以,它的笔画、结体都以让读者醒目舒适、节省视力为第一要义。举印刷体中用得最多的宋体为例,它横细竖粗、结体端庄、疏密适当、字迹清晰。读者长时间阅读宋体,不容易疲劳,所以书籍报刊的正文一般都用宋体刊印。
[…]



如果這是印刷體的定義,這就是指 text typeface, 對於有美術背景的人這樣會產生誤導。

以人手造出 typeface 的效果 (不論是 text type 還是 display type),就不會是書寫,只能是 calligraphy 或 lettering 其一,而如果是 text typeface,就只能是 lettering (除非包括源於手寫字的所謂「斜體字」在內)。這和 print 的意思相差很遠。

事實上,現在寫 cursive 的人應該不會太多,很多人的手寫字,技術上根本已經是 printing,但那一般都是不很工整 (甚至是潦草) 的 print。這可能是為什麼一些表格會寫 please print clearly 的原因。

[Edited at 2011-07-25 19:06 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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"签名下的PRINT” Jul 25, 2011

Ambrose Li wrote:

我的原居地和pkchan前輩一樣。

如果查一下中国大陆、香港、台湾出版的英汉词典,你将会发现,其中关于 print 的译法基本上是一致的:
n. 印刷体,印刷字体
v. 用印刷体写
例如,香港出版的《朗文现代英汉双解词典》关于 print 的解释如下:
Print n 4.[U] letters, words, or language in printed form 印刷字體

Print v 10. To write (something) without joining the letters 把...寫成印刷體字:
Please print the address clearly in capital letters. 請用印刷體清楚地寫出住址。

但我尚未发现一本词典,其中是将 print 译为“以正楷填写”的。所谓“正楷”是指中文书法。《汉英词典》的关于正楷的解释是: (in Chinese calligraphy) in regular script。我们现在讨论的是从英文译为中文的文件,而不是原本就是中文的文件。其中,往往必须以英文(或拼音字母)填写姓名和住址。在这种情况下,如果将 print 译为“请以正楷填写”,即使不造成误解,也不合乎逻辑。

如果原本就是中文的文件,而且只需用中文签字,那么“姓名(正楷)”是可以接受的。“请以正楷填写”略显罗嗦。谨提醒一下,我们现在讨论的不是文件填写说明中的 print,而是 jyuan_us 所说的“签名下的PRINT”。其英文原文应该是 Name (print)。


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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印刷體=印版字? Jul 25, 2011

雖然,大家都是生活在大中華文化圈,但是不同地區,對同樣的東西,會有不同的“叫法” 。所謂“印刷體”,可能就是香港人稱之為“印版字”,是在用字粒印刷時,所用的特定字體,老師時常警告學生,印刷時用的字體,與平常書寫時的寫法是不一樣的,如按書本上的字去寫,在默書或作文時,會被視為是寫“別字”了。

回頭再說這個“PRINT”字的譯法。在用手填寫英文表格時,過往一向是鼓勵申請/填寫人全用正楷大寫,以免因字體不清,令人產生誤會,但是隨著打字機的普及化,print就有type的意思了,至於在電腦的年代,print的確是有用電腦打字填妥後,呈交打印本的意思了。因此,現在說print,意思總不離開要清楚填寫的意思,免得輸入者,要花時間去推敲這個究竟是t字,還是個l字。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Print your name and address Jul 25, 2011

Ambrose Li wrote:


如果這是印刷體的定義,這就是指 text typeface, 對於有美術背景的人這樣會產生誤導。

以人手造出 typeface 的效果 (不論是 text type 還是 display type),就不會是書寫,只能是 calligraphy 或 lettering 其一,而如果是 text typeface,就只能是 lettering (除非包括源於手寫字的所謂「斜體字」在內)。這和 print 的意思相差很遠。

事實上,現在寫 cursive 的人應該不會太多,很多人的手寫字,技術上根本已經是 printing,但那一般都是不很工整 (甚至是潦草) 的 print。這可能是為什麼一些表格會寫 please print clearly 的原因。



Ambrose,

I'm not sure I agree with you. For many people, it is very clear what "用印刷體" means, especially when it comes to filling out a form.

Context is important. And when filling out a form, the requirement is self-explanatory.



http://www.haodic.com/query/印刷%20体/

1. Better in block letter.
最好写印刷体。

2. Print large.
以印刷体写大。

3. Please print your telegram.
请用印刷体书写电报。

4. write as if with print; not cursive.
用印刷体印刷;非草书。

5. Print your name.
请用印刷体写您的名字。

6. Please print your address clearly.
请用印刷体写清你的地址。

...



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Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
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正楷 Jul 25, 2011

ysun wrote:

但我尚未发现一本词典,其中是将 print 译为“以正楷填写”的。所谓“正楷”是指中文书法。《汉英词典》的关于正楷的解释是: (in Chinese calligraphy) in regular script。我们现在讨论的是从英文译为中文的文件,而不是原本就是中文的文件。其中,往往必须以英文(或拼音字母)填写姓名和住址。在这种情况下,如果将 print 译为“请以正楷填写”,即使不造成误解,也不合乎逻辑。


我所說的並不是詞典,而是(政府、銀行等所發出的)實際的表格上所沿用的譯文。


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