| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | 什么是母语？ Thread poster: Phil Hand
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 08:03
Chinese to English
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| English is very flexible | Jul 10, 2012 |
"... for the lack of effort" is another way of saying this.
Like any other language, there are numerous, numerous ways of expressing the same thing in English. But it takes a well-spoken or well-read person to know what is acceptable.
| | | | Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 09:03
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
Moderator of this forum | Very interesting | Jul 10, 2012 |
Peng Liu wrote:
对绝大多数翻译而言，从外语翻译到自己的母语都比相反方向更加容易，澳洲翻译评审机构NAATI的资料中建议希望通过考试拿澳证书的人首先参加从英语翻译到其母语的考试。对中国学生而言，阅读是强项，读懂难度较大的英语不是问题，理解后用自己的母语写出来自然轻松许多。我在近9年前参加NAATI考试，从英语到中文，高分通过，4年前鼓起勇气参加中文到英文考试，刚刚到及格线，一分不多，一分不少，运气好得让自己都后怕。
从我自己的经验看，做从中文翻译到英文的工作还不至于说是欺骗，但感到吃力是明显的，我在澳洲学习生活了11年，阅读量相当大，但由于本人非英语专业出身，英文写作还是感到不能得心应手。
还是那句话，欺骗谈不上，用心用功才是根本。
Peng, this is all very interesting, thanks for sharing your experience.
I moved to Canada from Hong Kong when I was a kid. I lucked out in the sense that I was still young enough to figure out little things in the English language when we first got there. My older sister, for one, has a much more noticeable accent in her English and often make little errors. I then spent the next 11 years in Canada, spent another 3 in Europe and 1 in Brazil. When I came back to Canada from those 4 years abroad, my accent (in various languages) has definitely become more pronounced to my ears than it was before. I was starting to notice that I wasn't pronouncing a lot of words correctly despite tried effort. My English used to far prevail my Chinese (both in writing and speaking), but lately, I am finding it easier to speak in Chinese though I still very much prefer to write in English (in particular Business English - it feels like I'm going through labour when I am attempting to write business chinese). When it comes to blogging, however, each language offers their unique edge- I find it more fun to blog in Chinese since it's just so much more compact and the various dialects gives one more room for creativity.
I graduated in history so I am terrible at a ton of things which make the modern world fly, i can't tell a supply curve from a demand curve in a chart or all that fingamajik in your first year 101 Economics class, but I consider myself pretty damn good at writing in both languages. This kind of discussion points out the very issue that I've been pondering for the last few years- what is MY native language? I am equally comfortable expressing myself in both English and Chinese, but admittedly I am more comfortable and likely slightly more "eloquent" in English than in Chinese, though I seem to be able to better express myself ORALLY in Chinese (especially in an argument. ) It still depends on the subject- if we're talking business I still switch back to English. But all of your remarks are really valuable. The end users are changing their demands, it's not just the service providers who are evolving.
I would still be hesitant to apply for certification at this point. For example, ATA only does English (INTO) Chinese certification right now - I am not sure if I have what it takes to apply and pass the testing.
| | | | Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 09:03
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
Moderator of this forum | Well make an effort wont ya! :) | Jul 10, 2012 |
wherestip wrote: Rita Pang wrote: wherestip wrote: Alan Wang wrote: Indeed, that's one of the reasons that we've got you. and thank you for enlightening me on this. failing -> failed Right? wherestip wrote: But Alan, speaking of choking, IMO a person with near-native English speaking ability would never have made the mistake of saying "failing to make an enough effort". Just thought I'd let you know. But please take it or leave it.  No. It should be "failing to make a good enough effort", or "failing to make enough effort". I'd say failing to make enough effort. "A good enough effort" pending on the phrase before might sound redundant. I go by the KISS rule- Keep it short and simple, unless for aesthetic reasons. Yes, if it were up to me, I would have just said "... failing to make an effort".
Well come on now, make more of an effort wouldnt you! I was also going to say "failing to make enough of an effort" but again...how specific do we have to get at, right?
....I couldn't help myself. But enough already....
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 08:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote:
Phil,
I agree with everything you said, provided I assume the viewpoint of someone with an idealistic view of the translation industry.
有时，如果客户规定太多的条件，受限制的将反而是他们自己。在某些领域，这种情况与美国招聘高科技人员的情况类似。如果美国雇主规定应聘者必需是美国公民或美国永久居民，那他很可能就招不到理想的人员。多年来，从美国大学获得理工科博士、硕士学位的人中，绝大部分（有时高达90%）都是外国人。美国的杰出人才大概都去学法律、医学和企业管理去了。所以，美国许多高科技公司一直都在与政府和国会交涉，要求增加每年的高学位职业移民名额。
美国招聘高科技人员的情况有一点与翻译行业很不相同。美国法律规定，招聘外国科技人员时，其工资不得低于相当级别的美国公民或永久居民的平均工资水平。美国许多翻译公司到国外去招聘翻译的主要目的就是为了最大限度地压低价格。有一次，一位华裔翻译在 ATA 年会上发言时就说：Damn globalization!  （当然，我并不同意他的意见。）
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:03
Chinese to English
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| Corporate Greed | Jul 10, 2012 |
ysun wrote: 美国招聘高科技人员的情况有一点与翻译行业很不相同。美国法律规定，招聘外国科技人员时，其工资不得低于相当级别的美国公民或永久居民的平均工资水平。美国许多翻译公司到国外去招聘翻译的主要目的就是为了最大限度地压低价格。有一次，一位华裔翻译在 ATA 年会上发言时就说：Damn globalization! （当然，我并不同意他的意见。）
Yueyin,
I hate to say it, but some of those shady practices by high tech corporations are also mainly driven by cost-cutting. It's all about corporate greed. The top 1% (corporate executives of course belong to this group) get wealthier and wealthier at the expense of the middle class. But that's another issue altogether.
I sometimes pop over to the IBM employees' message board. You wouldn't believe all the griping and the low morale.
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 08:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Corporate Greed | Jul 10, 2012 |
wherestip wrote:
Yueyin,
I hate to say it, but some of those shady practices by high tech corporations are also mainly driven by cost-cutting. It's all about corporate greed. The top 1% (corporate executives of course belong to this group) get wealthier and wealthier at the expense of the middle class. But that's another issue altogether.
That's true. Now, the specter is also haunting Asia. 
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
| wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:03
Chinese to English
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| Off-topic: America's competitive edge | Jul 10, 2012 |
ysun wrote:
Globalization
Steve Jobs 分析 IBM 的问题容易，但难保苹果以后不会跟 IBM 学。如果你买 Apple MacBook Air 和 iPad，就会发现它们都是从中国寄来的。
(I'm utilizing this space 'cause it was going to be left blank anyway, but the order of this post is really after Yueyin's post quoted above)
Yueyin,
The comments to Cringely's blog are actually quite indicative of how middle-class Americans feel about what's happening to America's competitive edge. Most of these come from people who work or used to work in the high-tech industry. When you get a chance, read some of them. It would blow your mind.
That's why I keep saying, there's been no effective leadership from Washington for decades to prevent this kind of sad outcome from happening.
http://www.proz.com/post/1268555#1268555
http://www.proz.com/post/542872#542872
http://www.proz.com/post/1968859#1968859
[Edited at 2012-07-11 01:20 GMT]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 08:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Globalization | Jul 10, 2012 |
Steve Jobs 分析 IBM 的问题容易，但难保苹果以后不会跟 IBM 学。如果你买 Apple MacBook Air 和 iPad，就会发现它们都是从中国寄来的。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 08:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Cringely's blog | Jul 11, 2012 |
wherestip wrote:
Yueyin,
The comments to Cringely's blog are actually quite indicative of how middle-class Americans feel about what's happening to America's competitive edge. When you get a chance, read some of them; it would blow your mind.
Steve,
Thank you for the links. I've just read one of the Cringely's articles. I will read more after I finish a rush translation project.
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 21:03
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Didn't ask me, but... | Jul 11, 2012 |
Rita Pang wrote:
I moved to Canada from Hong Kong when I was a kid. I lucked out in the sense that I was still young enough to figure out little things in the English language when we first got there.
This kind of discussion points out the very issue that I've been pondering for the last few years- what is MY native language?
Just in the context of that mega thread:
There are good reasons for claiming both Chinese (Cantonese, presumably?) and English, so the Proz definition must allow you to register both as native on the site.
But that's just a website. The language you feel to be your native language is a personal and evolving issue, for someone with a bilingual (tri-?) background like you.
| | | | Alan Wang
China
Local time: 21:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
和尚：道长，您看我是适合做中译英还是英译中？
老道：我看你适合做外译外。
Monk: Toist Father, what do you think of the odds of me making a fortune as a translator, should I translate from Chinese to English or rather from English to Chinese?
Toist Father: I think you’d have a better chance cashing in translating from one foreign language to another.
Got a good laugh at a picture featuring a monk asking for advice fro... See more 和尚：道长，您看我是适合做中译英还是英译中？
老道：我看你适合做外译外。
Monk: Toist Father, what do you think of the odds of me making a fortune as a translator, should I translate from Chinese to English or rather from English to Chinese?
Toist Father: I think you’d have a better chance cashing in translating from one foreign language to another.
Got a good laugh at a picture featuring a monk asking for advice from a fortune teller / toist priest.
Also, I'd be interested in seeing a better version of the translation.
[Edited at 2012-07-11 03:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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ysun
United States
Local time: 08:03
English to Chinese
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Alan Wang wrote:
和尚：道长，您看我是适合做中译英还是英译中？
老道：我看你适合做外译外。
把自己看不懂的东西译成别人看不懂的东西，那就是外译外。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Improving one's English | Jul 11, 2012 |
Alan,
I never go around correcting others in their language use unless asked to do so. And I don't think anyone else should either. For one it‘s just very impolite. But since we are on the topic of the correct use of English, I think I'll make an exception one more time in this thread just for illustration purposes. I hope you don't mind.
The correct spelling of the English word is "Taoist". And in one of your previous posts, "wishful thinking" typical doesn't ha... See more Alan,
I never go around correcting others in their language use unless asked to do so. And I don't think anyone else should either. For one it‘s just very impolite. But since we are on the topic of the correct use of English, I think I'll make an exception one more time in this thread just for illustration purposes. I hope you don't mind.
The correct spelling of the English word is "Taoist". And in one of your previous posts, "wishful thinking" typical doesn't have an indefinite article in front of it.
I also want to say your English seems to have improved since we last discussed something at length. So congratulations, for your hard work has paid off.
~*~*~*~*~*
p.s. In that exchange between the monk and the Taoist, I don't see any reference to making money. I wonder if it's implied, or you're reading a bit too much into what they are saying. You'd never know these days - everyone seems to be so preoccupied with the almighty dollar.
[Edited at 2012-07-11 21:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
ysun wrote: Alan Wang wrote:
和尚：道长，您看我是适合做中译英还是英译中？
老道：我看你适合做外译外。
把自己看不懂的东西译成别人看不懂的东西，那就是外译外。
Yueyin,
Yes, I agree. That's probably where the humor lies. Alan may have misinterpreted the joke.
老道的意思大概是说你什么都不行，既不能做中译英，也不能做英译中，只能将胡话转成胡话(from gibberish to gibberish) － 这是老道在贬那和尚。
[Edited at 2012-07-11 20:46 GMT]
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