Pages in topic:   [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] >
什么是母语?
Thread poster: Phil Hand

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:39
Chinese to English
Jun 26, 2012

上周末一些同仁,特别是欧洲的同仁,开展有关母语这概念的激烈争论。有人推荐我们应该扩大咨询范围,问其他地区的同志他们怎么理解母语这一说。那么,中国同仁们,各位觉得母语的定义是什么呢?对翻译来讲,母语有什么意义呢?

[Edited at 2012-06-26 14:17 GMT]


 

pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:39
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
From Bing Translator Jun 26, 2012

母语= Mother tongue
1. (本族语) mother tongue
2. (某些语言的共同来源) parent language; linguistic parent

或: 1st language, Native Language


 

Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:39
Member (2002)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Good Question Jun 26, 2012

my answers are:

1. the language in which you are brought up
2. the language in which you receive the majority of your eduction
or
3. the language you master as well as either of the above two.


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
Mental Process and Imagery Jun 26, 2012

I would say it's the language you think in.

Another way to think of it is when you dream(REM sleep), what language do you speak in?


[Edited at 2012-06-26 20:04 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
Rapid eye movement (REM) sleep Jun 26, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep



Stimulation in CNS development as a primary function
According to another theory, known as the Ontogenetic Hypothesis of REM sleep, this sleep stage (also known as active sleep in neonates) is particularly important to the developing brain, possibly because it provides the neural stimulation that newborns need to form mature neural connections and for proper nervous system development.[14] Studies investigating the effects of active sleep deprivation have shown that deprivation early in life can result in behavioral problems, permanent sleep disruption, decreased brain mass,[15] and result in an abnormal amount of neuronal cell death.[16] Further supporting this theory is the fact that the amount of REM sleep in humans decreases with age, as well as data from other species (see below).
One important theoretical consequence of the Ontogenetic Hypothesis is that REM sleep may have no essentially vital function in the mature brain, i.e., once the development of CNS has completed. However, because processes of neuronal plasticity do not cease altogether in the brain,[17] REM sleep may continue to be implicated in neurogenesis in adults as a source of sustained spontaneous stimulation.



 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
Native 与 near-native Jun 26, 2012

以前有位美国朋友认为,英语为非母语者声称自己能做中译英的做法不符合职业道德。但我认为只要有能力,英语为非母语者也可做中译英,谈不上什么不符合职业道德。但如果某些人自以为自己外语水平很高,就声称该外语也是自己的母语,恐怕不大合适。如果他们说,自己的外语已达到 near-native proficiency 的水平,则无可非议。

 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
Full command of a language Jun 26, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period_hypothesis




‪Critical period hypothesis‬

The critical period hypothesis is the subject of a long-standing debate in linguistics and language acquisition over the extent to which the ability to acquire language is biologically linked to age. The hypothesis claims that there is an ideal 'window' of time to acquire language in a linguistically rich environment, after which further language acquisition becomes much more difficult and effortful.
The critical period hypothesis states that the first few years of life is the crucial time in which an individual can acquire a first language if presented with adequate stimuli. If language input doesn't occur until after this time, the individual will never achieve a full command of language—especially grammatical systems.
The evidence for such a period is limited, and support stems largely from theoretical arguments and analogies to other critical periods in biology such as visual development, but nonetheless is widely accepted. The nature of this phenomenon, however, has been one of the most fiercely debated issues in psycholinguistics and cognitive science in general for decades. Some writers have suggested a "sensitive" or "optimal" period rather than a critical one; others dispute the causes (physical maturation, cognitive factors). The duration of the period also varies greatly in different accounts. In second language acquisition, the strongest evidence for the critical period hypothesis is in the study of accent, where most older learners do not reach a native-like level. However, under certain conditions, native-like accent has been observed, suggesting that accent is affected by multiple factors, such as identity and motivation, rather than a critical period biological constraint (Moyer, 1999; Bongaerts et al., 1995; Young-Scholten, 2002).



I agree with Yueyin. There are always exceptionally gifted individuals who could achieve native or near-native proficiency in a second language, but that would only be after years and years of immersion in the secondary-language environment and assimilation into the adopted society.


[Edited at 2012-06-26 23:44 GMT]


 

Mandy Liang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
。。。。。。 Jun 27, 2012

对我来说 母语意味着自由 我可以“玩弄”母语的文字 英语就做不到

 

Leo Young  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
不同面的母语 Jun 27, 2012

对于我这样没有离开过故土的人来讲,母语就是主要用于日常交流、获取多数信息、情感交流的语言。

对于生长在异乡的人,例如很多生长在美国的华裔生活在英语的环境中,不会讲汉语很正常,很难说母语到底是哪个?

博尔赫斯生长在阿根廷讲西班牙语,可从小他的外婆就给他讲英文故事,他自己也流利讲多种语言。而在文学方面他自己也承认受英美文学传统影响最深。

对于身处多种语言环境的人来讲,这是个有意思的问题。比如一个妈妈意大利人,爸爸西班牙人,而全家生活在英国。但对于我等来讲真的很简单。


 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
关键所在 Jun 27, 2012

实际上,此讨论发起者的初衷是想指出这一点: “Bogus claims about native language status actually constitute deception”。依我看,这个问题只能靠自觉,用不着去 verify,也难以实施这种 verification。

Should “native language” claims be verified?
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/227485-should_“native_language”_claims_be_verified.html

有不少客户规定,必须是 native English speaker 才能做中译英。对此,我从不与他们啰嗦。不让做就不做,发什么愁呢?可以说,有时该发愁的是他们。我一直就实事求是地表明自己的 native language 只是 Chinese。尽管如此,还是有不少客户来找我做化工、医药等方面的专利中译英,甚至其它专业领域的中译英。其实,在我很忙时我还经常推掉中译英项目,因为我做英译中比做中译英要快得多,翻译质量更有把握,经济效益当然也高得多。承担中译英项目得靠实力,而不是靠欺骗。


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
Hmm Jun 27, 2012

ysun wrote:

实际上,此讨论发起者的初衷是想指出这一点: “Bogus claims about native language status actually constitute deception”。依我看,这个问题只能靠自觉,用不着去 verify,也难以实施这种 verification。

Should “native language” claims be verified?
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/227485-should_“native_language”_claims_be_verified.html



I agree. Someone's native language status is not something that's easily verifiable.

IMO, for all practical purposes, an English-speaking agency should be able to tell if the English quality of an end product is good enough for what they want to do with it.


 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
确实如此 Jun 27, 2012

wherestip wrote:

I agree. Someone's native language status is not something that's easily verifiable.

IMO, for all practical purposes, an English-speaking agency should be able to tell if the English quality of an end product is good enough for what they want to do with it.

欧美翻译社的大部分 PM 都不懂中文。因此,即使你英翻中翻得再好,他自己也无法判断。尤其当 editor/proofreader 给你乱改乱评时,他就更加无所适从。但中翻英就不一样。他起码一眼就可看出是不是 chinglish。即使是技术性很强的专利,他只要看一下比较通俗易懂的技术背景部分,就可看出翻译质量的好坏了。何况,现在不少欧美翻译社都有懂中文的雇员。因此,滥竽充数者最终还是会暴露的。


 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
Why would people lie? Jul 2, 2012

The discussion Should “native language” claims be verified has attracted more and more attention and has been getting more and more heated since it was started just 10 days ago.

I agree with LilianBoland’s observation that "The reason why some people might be lying is because they want to quote on jobs they are convinced they could do, but the native restriction prevents them form quoting" although I don’t think those translators should lie for whatever reasons.

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/227485-should_“native_language”_claims_be_verified-page35.html


[Edited at 2012-07-03 13:41 GMT]


 

ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
Native language & native speakers Jul 5, 2012

那场关于 Should “native language” claims be verified 的讨论异常热烈,才两个星期就达到了 45 页。

我个人认为,对此问题没必要太执着,而且也难以 verify。再说,native speakers 未必就都是水平很高的翻译。以英译中为例,许多英翻中文件都是 native speakers of Chinese 翻的。难道其中翻得很滥的东西大家见得还少吗?同理,native speakers of English 做中翻英,未必就没有翻得很差的。

对于那些明明不是却谎称自己是 native speakers of English 的人,也不必太在意。难道谁还怕这样的人夺了自己的饭碗不成?

个别 native speakers of English 把参加讨论的 native speaker of Chinese 的 profile 亮出来挑错,这种做法不大合适。这样一来,今后还有哪个 native speaker of Chinese 敢去参加讨论?

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/227485-should_“native_language”_claims_be_verified-page35.html#1973066

[Edited at 2012-07-06 00:08 GMT]


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:39
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
早晚要接轨吧 Jul 5, 2012

ysun wrote:

这样以来,今后还有哪个 native speaker of Chinese 敢去参加讨论?

在这个问题上,我的态度还是蛮强硬的,自称自己能从事中译英工作的人,如果不愿意把自己的英文作品拿出来让别人看或评论,那就说不过去。中国和中文翻译市场是特殊的没错,但这不代表不能评论,而且中国的各种市场越来越与世界市场融合,必须承受世界市场的质量拷问,正如世界市场承受了来自中国的价格挑战一样。Alan自己站出来说自己的水平属于near-native,难道别人不能讨论这个说法?

ysun wrote:
再说,native speakers 未必就都是水平很高的翻译。

这点我同意,不过我还是坚持说不应该虚报自己的语言背景吧。其实,因为众所周知的供应问题,导致中文翻译工作短中期内必须是主要由中国人承担,那这个事实应该正面面对,在现实条件下,中英翻译的质量保证程序和标准不能套用欧洲的既定做法,所以我们行业应该好好考虑怎么做。但必须先理清实际的行情,包括广大翻译的背景和能力,如果大家都套着英文为母语的帽子,就很难入手。


 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

什么是母语?

Advanced search






SDL MultiTerm 2019
Guarantee a unified, consistent and high-quality translation with terminology software by the industry leaders.

SDL MultiTerm 2019 allows translators to create one central location to store and manage multilingual terminology, and with SDL MultiTerm Extract 2019 you can automatically create term lists from your existing documentation to save time.

More info »
Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search