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English to Chinese competition entry 英译中比赛稿件
Thread poster: Phil Hand

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 13:34
Chinese to English
Feb 22, 2013

才发现校对论坛的帖子不出现在论坛首页上,帖子已经贴上去了,在这里只加个连接:
http://www.proz.com/forum/translation_feedback_area/243704-english_to_chinese_competition_entry_英译中比赛稿件.html

这次翻译比赛的有意思的问题很多,虽然投稿和评稿的人数不多,但我希望广大的论坛成员会加入讨论。


 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 13:34
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
涉及文化背景的材料的翻译需要文化背景知识为依托 Feb 22, 2013

这次竞赛飞利浦最有发言权了,请多多点评!

 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
"plausible psychopath" Feb 22, 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mask_of_Sanity



The Mask of Sanity is a book written by Hervey Cleckley, M.D., first published in 1941, describing Cleckley's clinical interviews with incarcerated psychopaths.

...

In these vignettes, Cleckley presents a typical psychopath's behavior. For example, the psychopath can typically tell vivid, lifelike, plausible stories that are completely fraudulent, without evincing any element of delusion. When confronted with a lie, the psychopath is unbothered and can often effortlessly pass it off as a joke. In another typical case history, the psychopath is hospitalized for psychiatric treatment but because of his constant trouble-making, leaving wards in an uproar, the hospital is finally forced to turn him over to the police. Eventually, the police become so sick of his repeated antics that they try to hospitalize him again.



Phil,

Great topic for discussion. And congratulations to you and all the participants of this contest. IMO, to participate is a win in itself.

My understanding of this term is somewhat along the lines of “编造瞎话、没有良心的精神狂人” 。

...

p.s. Several other ways of phrasing this that I can think of: “令人将信将疑的说瞎话的精神狂人”, “混淆视听的精神狂人” , “故意误导他人的精神狂人”, or “吹牛不上税的神经错乱者”...


[Edited at 2013-02-22 22:48 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
"middle slice of a three-storey Victorian semi" Feb 22, 2013

I could be wrong, but I envision this to be what we over here call a "town house" of three units. The middle slice occupants would be the family that has the middle unit with an adjacent neighbor on each side. That's why the woman joked about buying out the next-door neighbor.

My guess is that each 3-storey unit could have been further subdivided into 3 apartments during the flat conversion, since the author also mentioned Jason Statham at one time living above the dentist. But I could be all wet on this.


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
"She looks out wistfully over the fire escape" Feb 22, 2013

她若有所思地朝火灾消防梯的远侧凝视着(or 眺望)

她满怀沉思(凝思)的视线逾越(or just 越、跃、跳跃)过 室外的消防梯道 向远处投去 {我觉得这里是暗指向邻居的住所投去 - of course the original wasn't specific. But I believe the implication is the woman was sizing up the possibilities of what she would suggest doing if the neighbor's side of the property could indeed be acquired}


[Edited at 2013-02-22 22:46 GMT]


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 13:34
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
越过! Feb 22, 2013

I like it! That gets the "over" part. Never thought of it myself.

I also like a solution proposed by Echo Wu in the other thread: "她往安全出口的方向看出去,若有所思地说..."

The semi:

Semi is a semi-detached house. There are three floors in this house, and each floor has been converted to one flat. The author lives in the middle flat.


I'm going to copy my original post and Echo's into this thread to keep the discussion together.


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 13:34
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
My post Feb 22, 2013

First of all, congratulations to Billy for winning in this pair.
I said I'd post this here for general discussion, so here it is (I've corrected a couple of errors):

[quote[
We're accustomed to glamour in London SE26: Kelly Brook and Jason Statham used to live above the dentist. But when Anouska Hempel's heels hit the cracked cement of the parking space outside my flat, it's hard not to think of those Picture Post photographs of royalty visiting bombed-out families during the second world war. Her mission in my modest tract of suburbia is, however, about more than offering sympathy. Hempel—the woman who invented the boutique hotel before it bore any such proprietary name—has come to give me information for which, judging by the spreads in interiors magazines and anxious postings on online DIY forums, half the property-owners in the Western world seem desperate: how to give an ordinary home the look and the vibe of a five-star, £750-a-night hotel suite. To Hem­pelise, in this case, a modest conversion flat formed from the middle slice of a three-storey Victorian semi.
"You could do it," she says, casting an eye around my kitchen. "Anyone could do it. Absolutely no reason why not. But there has to be continuity between the rooms. A single idea must be followed through." She looks out wistfully over the fire escape. "And you'd have to buy the house next door, of course." That's a joke. I think.
...
It's worth pausing, though, to consider the oddness of this impulse. The hotel room is an amnesiac space. We would be troubled if it bore any sign of a previous occupant, particularly as many of us go to hotels in order to do things we would not do at home. We expect a hotel room to be cleaned as thoroughly as if a corpse had just been hauled from the bed. (In some cases, this will actually have happened.) The domestic interior embodies the opposite idea: it is a repository of memories. The story of its inhabitants ought to be there in the photos on the mantelpiece, the pictures on the wall, the books on the shelves. If hotel rooms were people, they would be smiling lobotomy patients or plausible psychopaths.[/quote]

我家所在的伦敦SE26区里,曾经有著名美男美女夫妻杰森•斯坦森和凯莉•布鲁克住在社区牙医店楼上,可以说,我区对大人大事并不陌生!但是在精品酒店的创始人Anouska Hempel(安努斯卡•亨佩尔)女士的高跟鞋在楼下停车位的破水泥上打响时,尊贵的气质与低劣环境形成鲜明对比,难免想起二战时期报纸刊登不绝的英皇室走进受轰炸家庭的图像。当然,亨佩尔女士的来意不是为了慰问,那么这位酒店行业的偶像为什么来到伦敦的一个普通的生活区呢?她今天的目的是要给我再宝贵不过的建议:即怎么将普通住宅改装成一晚七千多元的五星级酒店的样式。从众多室内设计杂志专题报道和网上装修论坛上层出不穷的求助帖子来看,酒店套房的风格正是西方国家大半的房主拼命追求的时尚。今天呢,要被“亨佩尔化”的标的是我的家:已经有上百年历史的半独立式三层房屋二楼改过来的一套平平常常的公寓。
她对着厨房稍看几眼说,“可以的,每个人都能做到,这套房子也并不例外。要在每间房间之间保持连接性,整体思路必须在每间房间里体现。”她往应急走廊的方向看外面去,感慨地说:“另外,隔壁房也得买下!”真希望这是一句冷笑话。
...
应该停下脚步来考虑一下,这种设计冲动其实很奇怪。应该知道,酒店客房毫无记忆,因为来到酒店的目的往往是为了做家里不能做的事情,所以前住客的任何迹象都令人难以接受,客房的清洁必须做得兢兢业业,正如房间刚有具尸体被拉出去一样(在酒店里,这是完全可能发生的的事)。而家庭的室内风格反之与酒店迥然不同,是记忆的仓库,一家人的历史应在炕上的照片里、在墙上的绘画中、在书架上的书本里得到充分的诠释。酒店客房若能化身为人的话,就像是接受过叶切断术的嘻嘻哈哈的傻子或油嘴滑舌的变态。


Here are a few of the questions I'm interested in:
我比较感兴趣的问题如下:

1) How would you edit this professionally? I.e. what are style issues, and what are errors?
一)如果在工作中被委托作校对,怎么校对呢?哪些问题属于风格的问题,哪些是需要修改的错译?

2) What could you do to make it more "Chinese"? I'm not a native speaker, any pointers would be helpful.
二)怎么让这篇译文读起来更加自然,像中国人写的一样?因为我的母语不是中文,请各位指点。

3) How do you reproduce the humour in Chinese? Particularly in the first few sentences, where the references to the British class system are hard to convey.
三)怎么体现原文的幽默?特别是头两句,涉及到英国的社会阶级意识的隐含不好表达出来!

4) A few difficult phrases:
四)有几句比较难翻译的英文:
"a modest conversion flat formed from the middle slice of a three-storey Victorian semi"
"She looks out wistfully over the fire escape." - How do you do the "over"?
"If hotel rooms were people, they would be smiling lobotomy patients or plausible psychopaths."


Of course, any other general comments are very welcome.
当然,不限于以上问题,任何评论和建议我都很期待!


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 13:34
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Echo's post Feb 22, 2013

我也对这篇文章很感兴趣,所以虽然忙得有点焦头烂额也还是忍不住来回复一下。

我家所在的伦敦SE26区里,曾经有著名美男美女夫妻杰森•斯坦森和凯莉•布鲁克住在社区牙医店楼上,可以说,我区对大人大事并不陌生!
>> 我们对伦敦SE26区的光环并不陌生——杰森•斯坦森和凯莉•布鲁克这对明星情侣曾经就住在这里一家牙医诊所的楼上。

但是在精品酒店的创始人Anouska Hempel(安努斯卡•亨佩尔)女士的高跟鞋在楼下停车位的破水泥上打响时,尊贵的气质与低劣环境形成鲜明对比,难免想起二战时期报纸刊登不绝的英皇室走进受轰炸家庭的图像。
>>但是,当精品酒店创始人……时,难免令人想起二战时期《Picture Post》杂志刊登的英国皇室成员探访遭轰炸家庭的照片。
【Picture Post 是具体的杂志名称,参考:http://bpgartmedia.diandian.com/post/2012-07-03/40029911223 或 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Post……】

要被“亨佩尔化”的标的是我的家 >> 可以去掉”标的“或者将它改为”对象“】


她对着厨房稍看几眼 >>>【她朝厨房扫了一眼】
她往应急走廊的方向看外面去,感慨地说>>>【她往安全出口的方向看出去,若有所思地说】
*关于fire escape,我参考了http://baike.baidu.com/view/148296.htm

正如房间刚有具尸体被拉出去一样>>>【就好像】房间刚有具尸体被【拖】出去一样……


先写这么多。

如果让我校对这样一篇译文,我会觉得赏心悦目,但是实际上我很少有这样的机会。


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
"middle slice" Feb 22, 2013



"A single idea must be followed through." She looks out wistfully over the fire escape. "And you'd have to buy the house next door, of course." That's a joke. I think.



Phil, the reason I get the impression it is a 3-unit townhouse, each unit sharing walls with each other(or a single wall for the end units) is because of what was described above. IMO, the woman was suggesting buying out one of the next-door neighbors and combining/remodeling two apartments into one.

But like I said, that was just a guess on my part. I have no idea how houses are built in the UK, let alone those built in the Victorian era. You definitely know better in this regard.


[Edited at 2013-02-22 23:52 GMT]


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 13:34
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
I think you're right about what she wants to do... Feb 22, 2013

...but the reason we know there are adjoining flats is because of the word "semi"; the "middle slice" is definitely a vertical slice here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-detached


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
Semi-detached Feb 22, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:

...but the reason we know there are adjoining flats is because of the word "semi"; the "middle slice" is definitely a vertical slice here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-detached


I see. Originally when the house was built, it had two three-story units sitting side-by-side, probably meant to house two families. After the flat conversion, it got subdivided into six apartments that could house six families.

That makes sense. That means there is another apartment adjoining the author's apartment, also on the middle floor, which the woman was suggesting acquiring for expansion, jokingly or not.


[Edited at 2013-02-22 22:30 GMT]


 

Alan Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
说二句 Feb 23, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:
1) How would you edit this professionally? I.e. what are style issues, and what are errors?
一)如果在工作中被委托作校对,怎么校对呢?哪些问题属于风格的问题,哪些是需要修改的错译?


如果语言运用能力没有问题,才能涉及译文的风格问题。译入语语言能力尚不足(特别是文学翻译),译文水平就难以服人,谈风格也有点隔靴搔痒,甚至是无的放矢,也就是说还谈不上风格。如此说来,语言应用能力比之风格是个优先要满足的问题。所以,为什么都看好母语人士做翻译!

至于真正的风格问题,在语言运用能力不错的前提下,一般是由于翻译经验不足,采取了不适当的直译或过于直译就会造成风格问题。译文风格问题的结果是读起来不容易读懂,其原因可能是句子太长,或其中的因果逻辑关系不清。

我最近刚好做了一个小文件的校对。未看到稿件之前客户跟我说,“it will be decent quality”, perhaps in the hope of dampening my enthusiasm for a slightly higher fee.icon_smile.gif 校对过程中,我发现译文风格有不小的问题。尽管你可以明显感觉到,译者理解没有错,翻译也未错,但是读起译文来,不容易读懂。这就是style 问题。主要原因是过于拘谨、直译。

Phil Hand wrote:
2) What could you do to make it more "Chinese"? I'm not a native speaker, any pointers would be helpful.
二)怎么让这篇译文读起来更加自然,像中国人写的一样?因为我的母语不是中文,请各位指点。


Just as my mother tongue is not English and yet I am dying to be able to claim even a semblance of it!
But you are definitely promising.

我估计目前情况,你要译工程技术方面的内容可能还凑合,但是做英译汉文学方面翻译还不行。我的情况也是,我的汉译英专利翻译有时也能通过严格审查,要是文学类则可能性很小。虽然我已经翻译过几本书量的类文学作品,但那是国情标准,似乎不在话下。


[Edited at 2013-02-23 07:14 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
同意 Feb 23, 2013

我觉得 Alan 说得有道理。

作为一个外国人,除非是阅读了大量中文书籍,写作风格这个东西不是很容易掌握的。举一个简单的例子吧: “我区”这种措辞一般多见于官方文件、 新闻报道 等。 写杂谈随笔这类文章时,口吻宜比较轻松随便,犹如朋友间叙谈。 这种情况下,使用 “我们这个区域” 或者“我们这个行政区/社区” 就更为恰当些。



Alan Wang wrote:

译文风格问题的结果是读起来不容易读懂,其原因可能是句子太长,或其中的因果逻辑关系不清。
...

... 我发现译文风格有不小的问题。尽管你可以明显感觉到,译者理解没有错,翻译也未错,但是读起译文来,不容易读懂。这就是style 问题。主要原因是过于拘谨、直译。



I also want to mention that one could see the same problem with Chinese to English translations done by folks who don't have a good enough command of English. Often it's not necessarily due to mistranslation, but the phrasing and choice of words being sufficiently awkward that makes the writer's train of thought hard to follow.

Anyhow, I'm just spouting off in general terms; it's definitely not a commentary on the translation of any one particular person, in any one particular direction of translation.


[Edited at 2013-02-24 15:42 GMT]


 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 13:34
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
什么是“椅子教授”? Feb 25, 2013

Hi 飞利浦,我觉得你的汉语讲得相当地道了。我觉得学习地道的外语最重要的条件就是在该国生活。而你现在在中国居住,所以学习条件可以说是得天独厚的。看一下下面中国的专家做的翻译,你会更自信一些:

朱棣文卸任美国能源部长,重返斯坦福大学,被聘为椅子教授

http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-45671-664780.html


有人竟然敢用“椅子教授”称呼朱棣文,太可乐了一点吧!

icon_biggrin.gif

[Edited at 2013-02-25 08:28 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-02-25 08:29 GMT]


 

Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:34
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
的的不休 Feb 25, 2013

看了前面几句,大致印象是:“的”字太多。比如:

但是在精品酒店的创始人Anouska Hempel(安努斯卡•亨佩尔)女士的高跟鞋在楼下停车位的破水泥上打响时,

一连三个“的”。改成这样:

但是,精品酒店创始人Anouska Hempel(安努斯卡•亨佩尔)女士脚蹬高跟鞋走在楼下停车场的破水泥地上时,

这样会比较像中文一点。当然,还可以写得再好一点。


Phil Hand wrote:

我家所在的伦敦SE26区里,曾经有著名美男美女夫妻杰森•斯坦森和凯莉•布鲁克住在社区牙医店楼上,可以说,我区对大人大事并不陌生!但是在精品酒店的创始人Anouska Hempel(安努斯卡•亨佩尔)女士的高跟鞋在楼下停车位的破水泥上打响时,尊贵的气质与低劣环境形成鲜明对比,难免想起二战时期报纸刊登不绝的英皇室走进受轰炸家庭的图像。当然,亨佩尔女士的来意不是为了慰问,那么这位酒店行业的偶像为什么来到伦敦的一个普通的生活区呢?她今天的目的是要给我再宝贵不过的建议:即怎么将普通住宅改装成一晚七千多元的五星级酒店的样式。从众多室内设计杂志专题报道和网上装修论坛上层出不穷的求助帖子来看,酒店套房的风格正是西方国家大半的房主拼命追求的时尚。今天呢,要被“亨佩尔化”的标的是我的家:已经有上百年历史的半独立式三层房屋二楼改过来的一套平平常常的公寓。
她对着厨房稍看几眼说,“可以的,每个人都能做到,这套房子也并不例外。要在每间房间之间保持连接性,整体思路必须在每间房间里体现。”她往应急走廊的方向看外面去,感慨地说:“另外,隔壁房也得买下!”真希望这是一句冷笑话。
...
应该停下脚步来考虑一下,这种设计冲动其实很奇怪。应该知道,酒店客房毫无记忆,因为来到酒店的目的往往是为了做家里不能做的事情,所以前住客的任何迹象都令人难以接受,客房的清洁必须做得兢兢业业,正如房间刚有具尸体被拉出去一样(在酒店里,这是完全可能发生的的事)。而家庭的室内风格反之与酒店迥然不同,是记忆的仓库,一家人的历史应在炕上的照片里、在墙上的绘画中、在书架上的书本里得到充分的诠释。酒店客房若能化身为人的话,就像是接受过叶切断术的嘻嘻哈哈的傻子或油嘴滑舌的变态。




[Edited at 2013-02-25 11:35 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-02-25 12:16 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-02-25 12:16 GMT]


 
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