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每小时翻译字数
Thread poster: XIAODAN SUN
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
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《大亨盖茨比》 Apr 27, 2013

《大亨盖茨比》似乎是目前得到的最佳译名。

《大人物盖茨比》备选

[Edited at 2013-04-27 22:56 GMT]


 
Loise
Loise
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Epithet Apr 27, 2013

Gatsby the Great, Gatsby the Fat, Gatsby the Tall, Gatsby the Young 等用法不过是 epithet 的特殊倒装用法:将人的名字放到article "the" 和 形容词 Great、tall、fat、young的前面。这里的 Great、tall、fat、young 都是形容词,意思为:the great (fat, tall, young) Gatsby。

 
Loise
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但这不表示great=大亨(名词) Apr 27, 2013

J.H. Wang wrote:

《大亨盖茨比》似乎是目前得到的最佳译名。


[Edited at 2013-04-27 07:07 GMT]


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
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形象鲜活 Apr 27, 2013

Loise wrote:

The great Gatsby 中的 great 不是名词,而是形容词。在 great Gatsby 前加了一个the的意思是说:本书的Gatsby是诸多名为Gatsby的人里的某个特别不同凡响的人物。如果真要按字面翻译的话,应该说:那个了不起的盖兹比。
我觉得说盖兹比是个大亨很传神,因为大亨有点负面、不道德、俗气的意思,非常符合作者对盖兹比的两面评价:既正又反。

[Edited at 2013-04-27 05:06 GMT]


“大亨”一词形象鲜活,但精神层面的承载力较弱。尤其是正面的肯定比较欠缺。“伟大的”、“了不起的”这些词可以涵摄多种精神气质,但
“大亨”就是大亨。形象是鲜活的、具体的。可以活灵活现,却很难让人喜欢。“大亨”一词起源上就与物质排场有关,用今天的话来说,是炫富的产物,精神上先天不足。

我这样说,是不是有点仇富心结?可能有点。:p


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
Canada
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这个怎么样? Apr 27, 2013

J.H. Wang wrote:

《大亨盖茨比》似乎是目前得到的最佳译名。


《大款盖茨比》

其实盖茨比还真有点“款儿爷”的范。:)



[Edited at 2013-04-27 08:20 GMT]


 
Loise
Loise
France
Local time: 06:21
French to Chinese
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物质排场 Apr 27, 2013

Fargoer wrote:

Loise wrote:

The great Gatsby 中的 great 不是名词,而是形容词。在 great Gatsby 前加了一个the的意思是说:本书的Gatsby是诸多名为Gatsby的人里的某个特别不同凡响的人物。如果真要按字面翻译的话,应该说:那个了不起的盖兹比。
我觉得说盖兹比是个大亨很传神,因为大亨有点负面、不道德、俗气的意思,非常符合作者对盖兹比的两面评价:既正又反。

[Edited at 2013-04-27 05:06 GMT]


“大亨”一词形象鲜活,但精神层面的承载力较弱。尤其是正面的肯定比较欠缺。“伟大的”、“了不起的”这些词可以涵摄多种精神气质,但
“大亨”就是大亨。形象是鲜活的、具体的。可以活灵活现,却很难让人喜欢。“大亨”一词起源上就与物质排场有关,用今天的话来说,是炫富的产物,精神上先天不足。

我这样说,是不是有点仇富心结?可能有点。:p

盖兹比就是这样的人:有过度重视排场的倾向,一心想进入豪门圈子里,天真地以为光靠物质排场就能被上层社会接纳。


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
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学习了 Apr 27, 2013

Loise wrote:

Gatsby the Great, Gatsby the Fat, Gatsby the Tall, Gatsby the Young 等用法不过是 epithet 的特殊倒装用法:将人的名字放到article "the" 和 形容词 Great、tall、fat、young的前面。这里的 Great、tall、fat、young 都是形容词,意思为:the great (fat, tall, young) Gatsby。


很长知识!

[Edited at 2013-04-27 10:01 GMT]


 
wherestip
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不屑一听 Apr 27, 2013

Fargoer wrote:

wherestip wrote:

(假作) 不肖一听的不严肃态度 (I know this is the wrong character, "尸"下面一个"肖", I always thought it was pronounced , but I can't seem to find it)


这个字应该读“谢”的音。


谢谢, 没想到。 以前在北京,还从来没听过这样发音的。


 
wherestip
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Fitzgerald (through Nick) is basically sympathetic to the character Gatsby Apr 27, 2013

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/literature/great-gatsby/critical-essays/praise-of-comfort-displaced-spirituality.html



After the Buchannan's dinner party, The Great Gatsby is again and again filled with excess. In fact, every one of the seven deadly sins (pride, envy, wrath, sloth, avarice, gluttony, and lust) is well represented. None of the characters, including Nick, are free from the deadly devices, which, at least in times past, have traditionally marked the downfall of a community. It is interesting to note that although the seven deadly sins are depicted time and time again by the people in The Great Gatsby, the theological counterpart to the seven deadly sins, the seven cardinal virtues (faith, hope, love, prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance) are nearly invisible. Gatsby, of course, has more hope than all the others put together, but in the end, that one thing, no matter how strong, can't save him.

Although countless acts of questionable integrity can be found within the pages of The Great Gatsby, the final and most blatant acts of immorality, of course, come near the book's end. Daisy shows her true self when she runs down Myrtle without even stopping. Gatsby becomes the target for another man's murderous rage when he is gunned down by Wilson (assisted, through association, by Tom). And finally, the last great act of disregard for one's fellow human comes in perhaps the most surprising and disturbing form of all: the lack of mourners at Gatsby's funeral. Despite how people had clamored to be associated with him in life, in death he became useless to them, and so their interests took them elsewhere (with, of course, the sole exception of Nick).

Fitzgerald uses the acts and actions of his characters to convey a sense of growing moral decrepitude, but he compounds his message through other means as well. First, there is the giant billboard, the eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg, which, as George Wilson reveals, represent the eyes of God, which can be interpreted in two ways. On one hand, he could be suggesting that a watchful presence overlooks society all the time, and will hold the world accountable for its actions. Given this interpretation, Fitzgerald seems to be urging readers to remember that they themselves are being watched, so they had better prepare to account for their actions. On the other hand, George's statement may be taken as a testament to his skewed judgment. Has he fallen so far away from standard religion that he does, in fact, believe the enormous eyes watching over the valley of ashes are the eyes of God? Does he interpret the eyes literally, as opposed to metaphorically? If so, Fitzgerald is offering a less uplifting message, suggesting that society has fallen so far away from traditional religious teachings that people have lost all faith and can only misread the significance of the material world around us.

Finally, Fitzgerald uses geography to represent his message of spiritual dysfunction, beginning with the distinct communities of East Egg and West Egg. Granted, their differences are largely socioeconomic, but when looking at the inhabitants of each Egg, the West Eggers stand somewhat above the East Eggers (albeit not by much). Whereas no one in East Egg has any virtues to redeem themselves, West Egg does have Nick, the one character in the book who has a fairly good sense of right and wrong. Just as Fitzgerald favored one Egg over the other (despite it being perceived as the less fashionable Egg), he also pits regions of the country against each other, with similar results. There is no denying that Fitzgerald sees the Midwest as a land of promise.

He acknowledges it is less glamorous and exciting than the East, but it has a pureness about it that the East lacks. All his characters come from the Midwest, and in the end, the East does them in. As Nick says, "we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to Eastern life." Nick is the only one to realize this, however, and so after he has become completely disillusioned with life in the East, he heads home, presumably to a land that is still connected to the basic tenets of human compassion and charity.

In The Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald presents a world in which value systems have gone out of balance. He is not espousing a heavy-handed Christian message, but rather he is encouraging readers to stop and take inventory of their lives. Although some may see Fitzgerald as implying a return to God is necessary for survival, the text supports something far more subtle: Fitzgerald is urging a reconsideration of where society is and where it is going.



Nick and Gatsby were the heroes of the story - 出淤泥而不染。 Of course Gatsby did everything, including becoming wealthy through illegally selling liquor in his drugstores, with the sole purpose of getting back with Daisy. In the end he fell victim to others' immoral acts.

Gatsby is the good guy in the story. He is portrayed in a much more favorable light than the rest of the characters - except Nick himself of course.

In other words, I don't read any irony in the title itself.


[Edited at 2013-04-27 22:46 GMT]


 
pkchan
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tycoon Apr 27, 2013

大亨,源自日本语对幕府将军的尊称“大君”(tycoon)一词传入欧洲,19世纪成为欧洲人对富豪的称号。后中国人翻译为“大亨”,指在一个行业内拥有相当大的财富和权力的人士,例如在金融界有财有势之人会被称为“金融大亨”。很多商业模拟游戏也会以“大亨”命名,著名的例子包括地产大亨(又译大富翁)。

大亨一词其最初意思是专称为霸一方的帮会头目或达官巨富的。但它的来历却很有趣,19世纪中叶,英国人约翰·亨生发明了一种名为“亨生”的马车,这种在车后驾驶的双轮小马车进入上海后,被称为“亨斯美马车”。第一个拥有这种马车的华人是《申报》老板史量才,而且是花费了数十万银两从一个德国人手中买来的,于是,当时的上海人就将拥有这种马车的人称为大亨,一直沿用到了今天。wiki


 
Jinhang Wang
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作者是通过盖茨比揭露社会道德的堕落 Apr 27, 2013



从上面链接的评论中:

“Gatsby is in many ways, as the title suggests, great, but when looking at him critically, some of the things he stands for may not be so admirable.”

“However, all positive traits aside, there are aspects of Jay Gatsby that call into question that admiration. Gatsby's money did not come from inheritance, as he would like people to believe, but from organized crime. The story takes place during the time of prohibition and Gatsby has profited greatly from selling liquor illegally. ”

这说明盖茨比并不是清白的。

“In assessing Gatsby, one must examine his blind pursuit of Daisy. Everything he does, every purchase he makes, every party he throws, is all part of his grand scheme to bring Daisy back into his life for good. In one sense, this is a lovely romantic gesture, but in another sense, it perpetuates a childish illusion. ”

这点固然有浪漫的成分,但是说明盖茨比是不理智的。


再结合其结局,用“伟大的”、“了不起的”来描写盖茨比是不太符合事实的。倒是“大人物”、“大亨”这些中性或略有贬义的词可以避免这个弊病,而且也符合原文事实。

[Edited at 2013-04-27 14:35 GMT]


 
wherestip
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The author was mostly affirmative of the character Gatsby Apr 27, 2013

J.H. Wang wrote:

从上面链接的评论中:

“Gatsby is in many ways, as the title suggests, great, but when looking at him critically, some of the things he stands for may not be so admirable.”

“However, all positive traits aside, there are aspects of Jay Gatsby that call into question that admiration. Gatsby's money did not come from inheritance, as he would like people to believe, but from organized crime. The story takes place during the time of prohibition and Gatsby has profited greatly from selling liquor illegally. ”

这说明盖茨比并不是清白的。

“In assessing Gatsby, one must examine his blind pursuit of Daisy. Everything he does, every purchase he makes, every party he throws, is all part of his grand scheme to bring Daisy back into his life for good. In one sense, this is a lovely romantic gesture, but in another sense, it perpetuates a childish illusion. ”

这点固然有浪漫的成分,但是说明盖茨比是不理智的。


再结合其结局,用“伟大的”、“了不起的”来描写盖茨比是不太符合事实的。倒是,用“大人物
”、“大亨”反而可以避免这个弊端,而且也符合原文事实。


I'll have to differ with you on this. Gatsby eventually became one of Nick's friends. Nick was the only one who stood by him at the end.


[Edited at 2013-04-27 14:54 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
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另一种解读 Apr 27, 2013

我没有怎么读小说,主要是通过别人的评论来判断,下面是另一种评论,供大家参考:

http://book.douban.com/review/3333405/

我的印象是,盖茨比是值得同情,但说不上“伟大”、“了不起”。作者似乎也无意将其塑造成一个伟大的或了不起的人物。只是借助这个人物,反映社会道德的堕落,呼吁道德的回归。

[Edited at 2013-04-27 15:10 GMT]


 
wherestip
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I don't think there is any digging at Gatsby in the short title of the book Apr 27, 2013

J.H. Wang wrote:

只是借助这个人物,反映社会道德的堕落,呼吁道德的回归。


This I agree with. But that doesn't mean the character Gatsby is the punching bag. Although he had many flaws and perhaps went down the wrong path in life, he's the only one who had some redeeming qualities and values in Nick's eyes.


[Edited at 2013-04-27 15:13 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
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标题中没有明显的讽刺、挖苦 Apr 27, 2013

wherestip wrote:

I don't think there is any digging at Gatsby in the short title of the book




这个应该是我们前面对小说了解不多所引起的认识偏差。

我们这里主要探讨的是原小说译名是否妥当的问题,主要应该结合小说主要内容和主题思想来考虑。




[Edited at 2013-04-27 15:20 GMT]


 
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