Pages in topic:   [1 2 3 4] >
请帮忙审核一下这句话的翻译
Thread poster: Seaguest
Seaguest  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 05:46
English to Chinese
Nov 24, 2013

If communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism, should not Christians apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?

这句话的下半句非常难理解,问题出在“apprehend”这个词上,还有就是that for wich这个代词组合上。想老半天,我只能结合上半句揣摸着译成下面这样的,请大家帮我斟酌一下。谢谢!

译句:如果共产主义能够为着马克思主义目标的实现而激发起如此的奉献和牺牲,那么基督徒岂不更应该执着于生命之主为呼召他们而设立的标杆吗?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:46
Chinese to English
+ ...
大意 Nov 24, 2013

Seaguest wrote:

If communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism, should not Christians apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?

这句话的下半句非常难理解,问题出在“apprehend”这个词上,还有就是that for wich这个代词组合上。想老半天,我只能结合上半句揣摸着译成下面这样的,请大家帮我斟酌一下。谢谢!

译句:如果共产主义能够为着马克思主义目标的实现而激发起如此的奉献和牺牲,那么基督徒岂不更应该执着于生命之主为呼召他们而设立的标杆吗?


Yes, I think you're on the right track. Maybe the wording in Chinese could use some polishing to make it more understandable.

I think "that" refers to the motivational power of the goals of the Lord. More context might help.



[Edited at 2013-11-24 16:39 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Seaguest  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 05:46
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
问题出在后面 Nov 24, 2013

wherestip wrote:

Seaguest wrote:

If communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism, should not Christians apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?

这句话的下半句非常难理解,问题出在“apprehend”这个词上,还有就是that for wich这个代词组合上。想老半天,我只能结合上半句揣摸着译成下面这样的,请大家帮我斟酌一下。谢谢!

译句:如果共产主义能够为着马克思主义目标的实现而激发起如此的奉献和牺牲,那么基督徒岂不更应该执着于生命之主为呼召他们而设立的标杆吗?


这种 motivational power 基督徒应是理解的,就像 主对他们的感召一样。


前半句好理解,后半句就显得很含糊,首先,apprehend的意思不是很明白,而且它的宾语是代词不是名词,那么我只好猜这个that到底指代什么。结果就给译成这样了。虽然觉得应该是这个意思,但不是太有把握。想问问各位有没有更准确的译法?或者apprehend有些不常用到的意思?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 05:46
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
apprehend 的理解 Nov 24, 2013

第一个 apprehend 应该是理解、意识到的意思,第二个也应该是这个的意思。

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/apprehend

[Edited at 2013-11-24 17:29 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 05:46
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
一种尝试性的解释 Nov 24, 2013

想了好久,感觉这里的 that 似乎应该指前面的 dedication and sacrifice,奉献和牺牲。

后半句似乎是说,难道基督徒就不应该理解它(奉献和牺牲)吗? 生命之主正是凭借它(基督徒的奉献和牺牲)理解了他们(基督徒)。

for...... 这里表示原因。


[Edited at 2013-11-24 17:53 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:46
Chinese to English
+ ...
信仰 Nov 24, 2013



4. Keep motivation strong and pure, for that supplies a sense of urgency and responsibility. Most of us don't know what we could actual do if we were to be fully activated, with all our powers called forth simultaneously. "The patient dedication of the will counts far more than native ability. Capacity flows more often from desire than desire from capacity." One man with a personal burden will accomplish more than ten with mere interest. The world has had very little opportunity to see what God could do with men who wholly followed Him. If communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism, should not Christians apprehend that for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?



I found the original on the web.

I think "that" in this usage is nebulous enough to interpret in different ways: whether it is "motivational power", "dedication and sacrifice", or something else. IMO, it doesn't make too much of a difference in this context how "that" is interpreted.

"That" could also refer to the fact/observation that "an inspirational ideal can motivate dedication and sacrifice", having a similar function to that of the word "it". As we know, sometimes the word "it" doesn't specifically refer to a concrete entity, but an abstract idea, or subject at hand.
So in other words, if communism - which is not of a divine nature - motivates such dedication and sacrifice, shouldn't Christianity - which is - inspire even more in Christians to live up to what God sees in them?

~*~*~*~*



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/that

4 a : the one : the thing : the kind : something, anything (the truth of that which is true) (the senses are that whereby we experience the world) (what's that you say)



Using this interpretation (4 a), you get something to the effect of:

that for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself
the kind (of inspiration/motivation/dedication/etc.) for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself

~*~*~*~*


J.H. Wang wrote:

想了好久,感觉这里的 that 似乎应该指前面的 dedication and sacrifice,奉献和牺牲。

后半句似乎是说,难道基督徒就不应该理解它(奉献和牺牲)吗? 生命之主正是凭借它(基督徒的奉献和牺牲)理解了他们(基督徒)。

for...... 这里表示原因。



J.H. makes a very good point too. The Christians should apprehend the dedication and sacrifice that is expected of them by God.

~*~*~*~*

Anyway, I don't think the English is very clear in its exact meaning. But that could just be because I'm not knowledgeable in theology. Either way, IMHO, fudging a little in the Chinese translation shouldn't be real harmful or create too big of a problem.

Looking back, your Chinese translation indeed seems fine to me.


[Edited at 2013-11-24 22:12 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Seaguest  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 05:46
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
明白了 Nov 25, 2013

谢谢两位费心指点。我似乎明白了这句话的意思了。关键是要搞明白两个从句的对应关系。

1,communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism,
2,Christians should apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself

这样一对比,apprehend的宾语就应该是dedication and sacrifice。

不过,apprehend的意思不应该是“理解”,两个从句是一个类比和新进的关系,而且强调的是实践。如果用“理解”来翻译,后面一句话的力度就弱下来了。我觉得apprehend这里应该理解为“逮捕”、“抓住”。就是说,基督徒应比共产主义者更执着于奉献和牺牲,而上帝也正是为此把他们抓住的。

[修改时间: 2013-11-25 01:36 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:46
Chinese to English
+ ...
Good explanation Nov 25, 2013

Seaguest wrote:

谢谢两位费心指点。我似乎明白了这句话的意思了。关键是要搞明白两个从句的对应关系。

1,communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism,
2,Christians should apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself

这样一对比,apprehend的宾语就应该是dedication and sacrifice。

不过,apprehend的意思不应该是“理解”,两个从句是一个类比和新进的关系,而且强调的是实践。如果用“理解”来翻译,后面一句话的力度就弱下来了。我觉得apprehend这里应该理解为“逮捕”、“抓住”。就是说,基督徒应比共产主义者更执着于奉献和牺牲,而上帝也正是为此把他们抓住的。



I see. Your interpretation certainly makes very good sense.

That said, IMO, God's "goals", "plans" - or God's will as it is typically referred to - could also be the thing that Christians should apprehend(understand or grasp the meaning of), for which(meaning goals/plans/will) God apprehended(let's say took under His wings) mankind, His flock, and their devotion. So I still don't think the English is very clear on what "that" refers to. Nevertheless, I don't think it is a big show-stopper for rendering an acceptable Chinese translation. IMO, where the original is nebulous, the translation could (or even should) also follow suit - it doesn't have to be very precise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_of_God


[Edited at 2013-11-25 14:09 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 05:46
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
一种新的理解 Nov 25, 2013

wherestip wrote:



4. Keep motivation strong and pure, for that supplies a sense of urgency and responsibility. Most of us don't know what we could actual do if we were to be fully activated, with all our powers called forth simultaneously. "The patient dedication of the will counts far more than native ability. Capacity flows more often from desire than desire from capacity." One man with a personal burden will accomplish more than ten with mere interest. The world has had very little opportunity to see what God could do with men who wholly followed Him. If communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism, should not Christians apprehend that for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?



I found the original on the web.

I think "that" in this usage is nebulous enough to interpret in different ways: whether it is "motivational power", "dedication and sacrifice", or something else. IMO, it doesn't make too much of a difference in this context how "that" is interpreted.

"That" could also refer to the fact/observation that "an inspirational ideal can motivate dedication and sacrifice", having a similar function to that of the word "it". As we know, sometimes the word "it" doesn't specifically refer to a concrete entity, but an abstract idea, or subject at hand.
So in other words, if communism - which is not of a divine nature - motivates such dedication and sacrifice, shouldn't Christianity - which is - inspire even more in Christians to live up to what God sees in them?

~*~*~*~*



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/that

4 a : the one : the thing : the kind : something, anything (the truth of that which is true) (the senses are that whereby we experience the world) (what's that you say)



Using this interpretation (4 a), you get something to the effect of:

that for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself
the kind (of inspiration/motivation/dedication/etc.) for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself

~*~*~*~*


J.H. Wang wrote:

想了好久,感觉这里的 that 似乎应该指前面的 dedication and sacrifice,奉献和牺牲。

后半句似乎是说,难道基督徒就不应该理解它(奉献和牺牲)吗? 生命之主正是凭借它(基督徒的奉献和牺牲)理解了他们(基督徒)。

for...... 这里表示原因。



J.H. makes a very good point too. The Christians should apprehend the dedication and sacrifice that is expected of them by God.

~*~*~*~*

Anyway, I don't think the English is very clear in its exact meaning. But that could just be because I'm not knowledgeable in theology. Either way, IMHO, fudging a little in the Chinese translation shouldn't be real harmful or create too big of a problem.

Looking back, your Chinese translation indeed seems fine to me.


[Edited at 2013-11-24 22:12 GMT]


感谢 Steve 找到了原始文本,这样理解这句话就更容易了。我重新思考了一下,现在尝试给出一种新的理解。


这里的 that 应该是个连词,而不是代词。它引导后面的 for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself 作为 apprehend 的宾语从句,不过这里的难点在于 for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself 同时也是一个非限定定语从句,其中 which 指代前面的 dedication and sacrifice 。


所以,原文是说,如果说共产主义能够激发为了马克思主义的目标而奉献和牺牲,难道基督徒就不能领悟正是因为此(奉献和牺牲的动机)他们被生命之主所认识(apprehend 这里的意思有待推敲)吗?

后面的 apprehend 好像是说,生命之主凭借基督徒的奉献和牺牲的动机来确认他们是基督徒。

我神学方面的知识贫乏,欢迎批评指正。


[Edited at 2013-11-25 04:30 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 05:46
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
原文中的其他信息 Nov 25, 2013

Keep motivation strong and pure 保持动机强大而纯洁

The patient dedication of the will counts far more than native ability. 坚忍的奉献的价值远大于天赋的能力。

后面还有:it is very easy to move off center, to wake up finding ourselves unduly concerned about our own reputation and our own rewards.

Never act from motives of rivalry or personal vanity.


所以,前面 Steve 讲的 motivational power 与我说的 dedication and sacrifice 是一回事儿。纯洁的动机这里指的就是 dedication and sacrifice,对于基督徒来说这是真正的力量之源,for that supplies a sense of urgency and responsibility。

[Edited at 2013-11-25 04:32 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:46
Chinese to English
+ ...
just another thought Nov 25, 2013

that for which = the reason for which

If communism can motivate such dedication and sacrifice for the goals of Marxism, should not Christians apprehend the reason for which they've been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?

Basically, it's about the will of God, God's plan also.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 05:46
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
一点补充 Nov 25, 2013

wherestip wrote:

That said, IMO, God's "goals", "plans" - or God's will as it is typically referred to - could also be the thing that Christians should apprehend(understand or grasp the meaning of), for which(meaning goals/plans/will) God apprehended(let's say took under His wings) mankind, his flock, and their devotion. So I still don't think the English is very clear on what "that" refers to. Nevertheless, I don't think it is a big show-stopper for rendering an acceptable Chinese translation. IMO, where the original is nebulous, the translation could (or even should) also follow suit - it doesn't have to be very precise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_of_God


[Edited at 2013-11-25 04:23 GMT]



should not Christians apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?

似乎可以改写为:then Christians should understand that they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself for their dedication and sacrifice.

[Edited at 2013-11-25 07:42 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Seaguest  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 05:46
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
我现在的理解 Nov 25, 2013

感谢大家的热心。我现在比较倾向于把apprehend理解为“抓住”。我觉得,如果解释为“期待”或“理解”,从整句话或者整段话的语境来看,力度就偏弱了。它本应该更强的。对于我们来说,奉献和牺牲是实践信仰的主要方式,而不是一个思维对象。恰恰是因为奉献与牺牲是我们实践信仰的主要方式,所以作者要把共产主义者表现出的同样精神与我们进行对比,以便激励读者在更高的层次上实践这一精神。

另外还有一点,我们相信,如果上帝为了某个目的而呼召人从事某项事业,基本上人是无法抗拒的。从这个角度看,被上帝呼召也差不多相当于被上帝抓住了。所以我现在觉得,apprehend这个词都给理解为“抓住”更为妥当。上帝抓住我们,我们则抓住奉献和牺牲。

[修改时间: 2013-11-25 08:48 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 05:46
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
apprehend 的理解 Nov 25, 2013

第一个我觉得似乎译为“领悟”比较好。

第二个我觉得用“抓住、捉住”讲得通。

[Edited at 2013-11-25 10:48 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:46
Chinese to English
+ ...
"that" as a conjunction that introduces a reason Nov 25, 2013

Last night I went to bed early. We're having an ice storm here in Austin that's gonna spread to the eastern part of the United States right before Thanksgiving. So they're predicting travel is gonna be a mess. But anyway, as soon as I got into bed, it dawned on me what the "that" might stand for in this sentence. So I posted that thought and jumped right back into bed.

Just now I went over the Merriam-Webster entry of "that" that I posted a link to yesterday. Here is the meaning that might back up that thought of mine:



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/that?show=0&t=1385380388


2 that conjunction \thət, ˈthat\
—used to introduce a clause that is the subject or object of a verb

—used to introduce a clause that completes or explains the meaning of a previous noun or adjective or of the pronoun it

—used to introduce a clause that states a reason or purpose



Anyway, FWIW.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3 4] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

请帮忙审核一下这句话的翻译

Advanced search






SDL MultiTerm 2017
Guarantee a unified, consistent and high-quality translation with terminology software by the industry leaders.

SDL MultiTerm 2017 allows translators to create one central location to store and manage multilingual terminology, and with SDL MultiTerm Extract 2017 you can automatically create term lists from your existing documentation to save time.

More info »
BaccS – Business Accounting Software
Modern desktop project management for freelance translators

BaccS makes it easy for translators to manage their projects, schedule tasks, create invoices, and view highly customizable reports. User-friendly, ProZ.com integration, community-driven development – a few reasons BaccS is trusted by translators!

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search