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Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿
Thread poster: QHE

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:53
Chinese to English
+ ...
独钓寒江雪 Dec 7

Fargoer wrote:

再看那位 “老学者”,人家是讲英语的美国人,居然敢大胆地直接写出“Alone fishing chill river snow”来!我不知道美国人读起来会是什么感受,这恐怕得邀请 wherestip 来评论。给我的感觉是相当的 " Chinglish "。 看得出,这老先生在揣摩原诗的意境方面着实下了点功夫,在英文表达上也是煞费苦心。




Ugh! It certainly looks like he was using a word-for-word approach in his translation.  

On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license.  

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license


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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 15:53
English to Chinese
若为自由故 Dec 8

wherestip wrote:

 

On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license.  

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license


还是出名好!


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QHE
United States
Local time: 16:53
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
"蓑笠翁"之意 Dec 8

Fargoer wrote: 钓翁之意



从柳宗元其人和他写诗时的背景推断,诗中的钓翁之意决不仅在于实实在在的鱼或雪。所以我认为使用 “fishing” 不足以表达诗中的意境;而江南David 的译文以 “awaits a bite” 结尾,余音缭绕,与诗的意境更接近 (特别是 “bite” 一词多义)。不过,“await” 多少有点消极之意,我于是用了 “angling solo for a bite” 来体现钓鱼之外的意寓或情趣。



David Shen wrote:

At a quick glance, the structure or composition is great (if we can use these terms to describe a poetic composition). One word that sticks out at me is "bark". I don't want to bark at you but you might want to consult with Steve and see what he thinks. I mean how shall we treat the two characters 蓑 and 笠 here in a succinct way without too much explanation.


谢谢 David. 其实我也认为诗中的“蓑”译为 “palm-fiber” 比较准确,而不是straw 或 reed 之类。可是在古诗译文里用“palm-fiber” 是不是会加进现代色彩呢? 我试想从远处望去,钓翁蓑衣的颜色和质感会与树皮比较相近,于是选用了 “bark cape” (本来想在前面加个介词,但我在这句译文中用一个 “in” 应该可以了)。这是我的自圆其说,我是认为在这个语境中“bark”一词不会造成误解 (btw, GTranslate 居然没有误译 “bark cape”).

Steve, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or comments on this.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:53
Chinese to English
+ ...
蓑衣 Dec 8

QHE wrote:

Fargoer wrote: 钓翁之意



从柳宗元其人和他写诗时的背景推断,诗中的钓翁之意决不仅在于实实在在的鱼或雪。所以我认为使用 “fishing” 不足以表达诗中的意境;而江南David 的译文以 “awaits a bite” 结尾,余音缭绕,与诗的意境更接近 (特别是 “bite” 一词多义)。不过,“await” 多少有点消极之意,我于是用了 “angling solo for a bite” 来体现钓鱼之外的意寓或情趣。



David Shen wrote:

At a quick glance, the structure or composition is great (if we can use these terms to describe a poetic composition). One word that sticks out at me is "bark". I don't want to bark at you but you might want to consult with Steve and see what he thinks. I mean how shall we treat the two characters 蓑 and 笠 here in a succinct way without too much explanation.


谢谢 David. 其实我也认为诗中的“蓑”译为 “palm-fiber” 比较准确,而不是straw 或 reed 之类。可是在古诗译文里用“palm-fiber” 是不是会加进现代色彩呢? 我试想从远处望去,钓翁蓑衣的颜色和质感会与树皮比较相近,于是选用了 “bark cape” (本来想在前面加个介词,但我在这句译文中用一个 “in” 应该可以了)。这是我的自圆其说,我是认为在这个语境中“bark”一词不会造成误解 (btw, GTranslate 居然没有误译 “bark cape”).

Steve, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or comments on this.


Thanks, guys. First off I have to say, the nitty gritty you guys are getting into is way beyond my expertise in Chinese culture or poetry.  

But since you asked, "palm bark fiber" or "bast fiber" both sound good to me.  



https://textileartscenter.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/sustainable-weatherproof-wear/


Rain cape, rice straw, bast fiber, cotton, China, mid 20th century

According to the Textile Museum’s most recent educational tool, Social Fabric (please make a minute to check it, it’s so worth it!), this cape was made using rice straw that was folded and stitched together, assuming the appearance and functionality of a thatched roof. People in remote areas of China still wear these capes to this day.


Rain cape; palm bark fiber, bast fiber, cotton; China, mid 20th century



Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:53
Chinese to English
+ ...
English Translation of a Poem by Zen Master Ryōkan Taigu Dec 9

https://www.dailyzen.com/quotes/lonely-pine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/807822894147346432

O lonely pine!
I’d gladly give you
My straw hat and
Thatched coat
To ward off the rain.

- Ryōkan (1758-1831)



https://artofwonder.org/2014/11/14/forgetting-the-moon-the-poetry-of-ryokan/


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QHE
United States
Local time: 16:53
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Steve! Dec 9

wherestip wrote:

Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?


I like the idea to leave out the material element.

[Edited at 2017-12-09 00:26 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:53
Chinese to English
+ ...
Translation of Classical Chinese Poetry Dec 9

QHE wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?


I like the idea to leave out the material element.



QHE,

Yes, IMO it's one way to make the description of "蓑衣" less unwieldy and dragging.  

I found another instance of the use of the term "thatched raincoat". It was by a translator named Lien-ren Hsiao in the translation of an essay entitled " The River Suite". The coinage of such a term seems a bit strange, but to my ear it sounds perfectly okay.

https://books.google.com/books?id=yHR5n6aT1mQC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq="thatched%20raincoat"&source=bl&ots=E8Ewa-AmSb&sig=1FbNf6GiwyBi-ITPeZhFV-GXt4w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin49y2xPvXAhXIZiYKHb7SBBMQ6AEIQDAJ#v=onepage&q="thatched%20raincoat"&f=false

BTW, I'm not much of an advocate for translating classical Chinese poetry( I've dug up an old thread of past discussion on this ). Nevertheless, I think both you and David did a great job in your translations.

( https://www.proz.com/post/1090655#1090655 )


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