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Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿
Thread poster: QHE

wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 16:59
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独钓寒江雪 Dec 7, 2017

Fargoer wrote:

再看那位 “老学者”,人家是讲英语的美国人,居然敢大胆地直接写出“Alone fishing chill river snow”来!我不知道美国人读起来会是什么感受,这恐怕得邀请 wherestip 来评论。给我的感觉是相当的 " Chinglish "。icon_biggrin.gif 看得出,这老先生在揣摩原诗的意境方面着实下了点功夫,在英文表达上也是煞费苦心。




Ugh! It certainly looks like he was using a word-for-word approach in his translation.  icon_biggrin.gif

On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license.   icon_rolleyes.gifhttp://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license


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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 15:59
English to Chinese
若为自由故 Dec 8, 2017

wherestip wrote:

 

On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license.   icon_rolleyes.gifhttp://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license


还是出名好!icon_biggrin.gif


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QHE
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Local time: 17:59
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"蓑笠翁"之意 Dec 8, 2017

Fargoer wrote: 钓翁之意



从柳宗元其人和他写诗时的背景推断,诗中的钓翁之意决不仅在于实实在在的鱼或雪。所以我认为使用 “fishing” 不足以表达诗中的意境;而江南David 的译文以 “awaits a bite” 结尾,余音缭绕,与诗的意境更接近 (特别是 “bite” 一词多义)。不过,“await” 多少有点消极之意,我于是用了 “angling solo for a bite” 来体现钓鱼之外的意寓或情趣。



David Shen wrote:

At a quick glance, the structure or composition is great (if we can use these terms to describe a poetic composition). One word that sticks out at me is "bark". I don't want to bark at you but you might want to consult with Steve and see what he thinks. I mean how shall we treat the two characters 蓑 and 笠 here in a succinct way without too much explanation.


谢谢 David. 其实我也认为诗中的“蓑”译为 “palm-fiber” 比较准确,而不是straw 或 reed 之类。可是在古诗译文里用“palm-fiber” 是不是会加进现代色彩呢? 我试想从远处望去,钓翁蓑衣的颜色和质感会与树皮比较相近,于是选用了 “bark cape” (本来想在前面加个介词,但我在这句译文中用一个 “in” 应该可以了)。这是我的自圆其说,我是认为在这个语境中“bark”一词不会造成误解 (btw, GTranslate 居然没有误译 “bark cape”).

Steve, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or comments on this. icon_smile.gif


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 16:59
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蓑衣 Dec 8, 2017

QHE wrote:

Fargoer wrote: 钓翁之意



从柳宗元其人和他写诗时的背景推断,诗中的钓翁之意决不仅在于实实在在的鱼或雪。所以我认为使用 “fishing” 不足以表达诗中的意境;而江南David 的译文以 “awaits a bite” 结尾,余音缭绕,与诗的意境更接近 (特别是 “bite” 一词多义)。不过,“await” 多少有点消极之意,我于是用了 “angling solo for a bite” 来体现钓鱼之外的意寓或情趣。



David Shen wrote:

At a quick glance, the structure or composition is great (if we can use these terms to describe a poetic composition). One word that sticks out at me is "bark". I don't want to bark at you but you might want to consult with Steve and see what he thinks. I mean how shall we treat the two characters 蓑 and 笠 here in a succinct way without too much explanation.


谢谢 David. 其实我也认为诗中的“蓑”译为 “palm-fiber” 比较准确,而不是straw 或 reed 之类。可是在古诗译文里用“palm-fiber” 是不是会加进现代色彩呢? 我试想从远处望去,钓翁蓑衣的颜色和质感会与树皮比较相近,于是选用了 “bark cape” (本来想在前面加个介词,但我在这句译文中用一个 “in” 应该可以了)。这是我的自圆其说,我是认为在这个语境中“bark”一词不会造成误解 (btw, GTranslate 居然没有误译 “bark cape”).

Steve, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or comments on this. icon_smile.gif


Thanks, guys. First off I have to say, the nitty gritty you guys are getting into is way beyond my expertise in Chinese culture or poetry.   icon_biggrin.gif

But since you asked, "palm bark fiber" or "bast fiber" both sound good to me.   icon_smile.gif



https://textileartscenter.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/sustainable-weatherproof-wear/

I1989_0179_i1_Front.jpg
Rain cape, rice straw, bast fiber, cotton, China, mid 20th century

According to the Textile Museum’s most recent educational tool, Social Fabric (please make a minute to check it, it’s so worth it!), this cape was made using rice straw that was folded and stitched together, assuming the appearance and functionality of a thatched roof. People in remote areas of China still wear these capes to this day.

I1989_0180_i1_Front.jpg
Rain cape; palm bark fiber, bast fiber, cotton; China, mid 20th century



Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:59
Chinese to English
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English Translation of a Poem by Zen Master Ryōkan Taigu Dec 9, 2017

https://www.dailyzen.com/quotes/lonely-pine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/807822894147346432

O lonely pine!
I’d gladly give you
My straw hat and
Thatched coat
To ward off the rain.

- Ryōkan (1758-1831)

image-of-ryokan.jpghttps://artofwonder.org/2014/11/14/forgetting-the-moon-the-poetry-of-ryokan/


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QHE
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Local time: 17:59
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TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Steve! Dec 9, 2017

wherestip wrote:

Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?


I like the idea to leave out the material element. icon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2017-12-09 00:26 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:59
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Translation of Classical Chinese Poetry Dec 9, 2017

QHE wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?


I like the idea to leave out the material element. icon_smile.gif



QHE,

Yes, IMO it's one way to make the description of "蓑衣" less unwieldy and dragging.   icon_biggrin.gif

I found another instance of the use of the term "thatched raincoat". It was by a translator named Lien-ren Hsiao in the translation of an essay entitled " The River Suite". The coinage of such a term seems a bit strange, but to my ear it sounds perfectly okay.icon_smile.gifhttps://books.google.com/books?id=yHR5n6aT1mQC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq="thatched%20raincoat"&source=bl&ots=E8Ewa-AmSb&sig=1FbNf6GiwyBi-ITPeZhFV-GXt4w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin49y2xPvXAhXIZiYKHb7SBBMQ6AEIQDAJ#v=onepage&q="thatched%20raincoat"&f=false

BTW, I'm not much of an advocate for translating classical Chinese poetry( I've dug up an old thread of past discussion on this ). Nevertheless, I think both you and David did a great job in your translations.

( https://www.proz.com/post/1090655#1090655 )


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QHE
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Local time: 17:59
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Translating . . . poetry Dec 16, 2017

literature-poetry-poet-poem-translations-poetry_performances-shrn2493_low.jpg

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ysun  Identity Verified
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Local time: 16:59
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Beautiful Chemistry Dec 19, 2017

[quote]QHE wrote:

https://vimeo.com/107976057

Beautiful Chemical Structures
https://vimeo.com/107550235

Beautiful Chemistry: Precipitation
https://vimeo.com/106810691

Beautiful Chemistry: Chemical Garden
https://vimeo.com/106809656

Beautiful Chemistry: Color Change
https://vimeo.com/106808368

Beautiful Chemistry: Metal Displacement
https://vimeo.com/106807484

Beautiful Chemistry: Crystallization
https://vimeo.com/106807085

Beautiful Chemistry: Bubbling
https://vimeo.com/106806525

Beautiful Chemistry: Dancing Fluorescent Droplets
https://vimeo.com/106805144

Beautiful Chemistry: Smoke
https://vimeo.com/106804057

Beautiful Chemistry Trailer 1: Reactions
https://vimeo.com/102098227

Beautiful Chemistry Trailer 2: Structures
https://vimeo.com/102840495



[Edited at 2017-12-19 04:33 GMT]


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QHE
United States
Local time: 17:59
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TOPIC STARTER
Envisioning Chemistry Dec 21, 2017

ysun wrote: Beautiful Chemistry

Beautiful Chemical Reactions
https://vimeo.com/107976057

Beautiful Chemical Structures
https://vimeo.com/107550235

Beautiful Chemistry: Precipitation
https://vimeo.com/106810691

Beautiful Chemistry: Chemical Garden
https://vimeo.com/106809656

...
...


Chemists could always come up with great solutions! icon_smile.gif
Seeing the Invisible World with the 2017 Nobel Prize in Chemistry
https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/seeing-the-invisible-world-with-the-2017-nobel-prize-in-chemistry

fig_ke_17_3Dstructures-1024x359.jpg
(a) A protein complex that governs the circadian rhythm. (b) A sensor of the type that reads pressure changes in the ear and allows us to hear. (c) The Zika virus.
Source: © Johan Jarnestad/The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences

[Edited at 2017-12-21 03:20 GMT]


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QHE
United States
Local time: 17:59
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
Christmas Chemistry Dec 22, 2017

source.gif
c16849866d88f3582865f6dcdf755950.jpg
sciencenotes.org


* Elements 113, 115, 117, and 118 are now formally named nihonium (Nh; “鉨”), moscovium (Mc; “镆”), tennessine (Ts; “15px-Tennessine_zh.svg.png” ), and oganesson (Og; “15px-Oganesson_zh-hans.svg.png” ), respectively.


[Edited at 2017-12-22 03:48 GMT]


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David Shen  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
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Artistic license vs. Lost in Translation Dec 23, 2017

wherestip wrote:
Fargoer wrote:
再看那位 “老学者”,人家是讲英语的美国人,居然敢大胆地直接写出“Alone fishing chill river snow”来!我不知道美国人读起来会是什么感受,这恐怕得邀请 wherestip 来评论。给我的感觉是相当的 " Chinglish "。icon_biggrin.gif 看得出,这老先生在揣摩原诗的意境方面着实下了点功夫,在英文表达上也是煞费苦心。

Ugh! It certainly looks like he was using a word-for-word approach in his translation.  icon_biggrin.gif
On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license.   icon_rolleyes.gifhttp://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license

...
But since you asked, "palm bark fiber" or "bast fiber" both sound good to me.


Steve,

Thank you for your valued opinion on this difficult-to-render part of the poem.

And I agree with you and QHE that, sometimes, it is better to leave out the material element in order to convey the main point, by eliminating the bumps that might spoil the whole purpose of reading a piece of literature for appreciation.

We translators are always treading a fine line between artistic license and "lost in translation." To me the palm-fiber coat or cape here is not some trivial part to let go, because it is a vivid description of what kind of person is on the boat. What to keep and what to dump is of course a highly personal choice of each translator I guess. Although I am no fan of 直译, and I seriously doubt any 直译 in literary translation can yield great results, too much freedom in rendering is trans-creation. While I respect all the works this scholar has done, I think he dumped too much in this case.

《有感于洋人译唐诗掉了蓑衣》

意 匠 经 营 未 足 奇,
翻 译 损 耗 更 合 理。
外 汇 要 收 兑 汇 费,
雁 过 拔 毛 龙 脱 皮。

Merry Christmas!


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David Lin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:59
Member (2013)
English to Chinese
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Moderator of this forum
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas! Dec 24, 2017

Christmas with dimsum beauty

39255284281_9633866959_k.jpg39255287921_030dfa4871_k.jpg


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:59
Chinese to English
+ ...
Joy to the World Dec 24, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2dw-E7QOvw

christmas-520.jpg


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:59
Chinese to English
+ ...
Merry Christmas Dec 24, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmF2rsDHOZc


Grown-up Christmas List (Amy Grant)

Do you remember me?
I sat upon your knee
I wrote to you
With childhood fantasies

Well, I’m all grown up now
And still need help somehow
I’m not a child
But my heart still can dream

So here’s my lifelong wish
My grown-up Christmas list
Not for myself
But for a world in need

No more lives torn apart
That wars would never start
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end
This is my grown-up Christmas list

As children we believed
The grandest sight to see
Was something lovely
Wrapped beneath our tree

Well, heaven surely knows
That packages and bows
Can never heal
A hurting human soul

No more lives torn apart
And wars would never start
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end
Oh, this is my grown-up Christmas list
This is my only lifelong wish
This is my grown-up Christmas list

Christmas-Xmas-Holidays-339.jpg

[Edited at 2017-12-24 22:39 GMT]


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泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿

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