| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Chinese Kudoz Open Glossary Thread poster: Denyce Seow
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 18:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 我上面所说绝对不是针对你们两位 | Oct 25, 2006 |
我上面所说绝对不是针对你们两位。你俩都是好样的。:)
Han Li wrote: 谢谢Sun先生和Wenjer先生的鼓励！ 在这种情况下，你最好与大家讨论一下你从别处找来的答案。如果不想讨论，那么，尽管你选择了一个你认为不大理想但最接近的答案，仍然可以而且也应该把你在其它地方找到的答案输入glossary与大家共享。否则有人可能会有这样的意见：“你需要我们帮忙时想到了我们，但自己在别处找到答案却藏起来了。”尽管你根本不是这样想的。
下次我碰到类似问题时，我一定多和答题者讨论一下。其实有时候我也是问了之后发现所问的问题有点简单，完全可以自己查到的，有可能耽误了大家的时间，感觉挺过意不去的。
Denyce Seow wrote: Yueyin Sun wrote:
有个别提问者提的问题往往是一些简单的单词，其实只要自己翻一下词典就可以解决，却要拿来问。 I know what you mean. I have to admit that sometimes I am guilty of this too.  Some terms I asked can be quite simple. Usually, there are two reasons for doing that: (1) to seek confirmation, and (2) to seek better suggestions.
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
Denyce Seow wrote:
Some answerers answer almost all questions, hoping to be lucky and make a strike. However, they do not realise that although they might have many Kudoz points, their average Kudoz points (total Kudoz points divided by total number of questions answered) is lower than others. Personally, I feel that the Kudoz point system can be improved by showing the average Kudoz points intead of the total. What do you think?
Denyce
KudoZ 點數根本不代表什麼！
幾個人串通起來，你問我答，命中率特高，點數互相積攢，煞有介事。但客戶其實根本不看那東西，能夠一點一滴幫客戶做出成績，做到最後客戶找你當他們的代表，幫他們操作地區性項目管理和翻譯工作，那才是真本領。
KudoZ 分數多寡，答案命中率多高，不如有智慧地幫助有善心、肯上進的同仁，並且在其中發掘可用之才，將他們納入團隊幫忙分勞，處理大項目時找到讓他們可以擔當的工作。這才是 KudoZ 真正的功用。
至於詞庫的建立，原本應該有助於整個社群，但若遇上一兩個特殊人物，不消一年，保證一大堆垃圾積攢在詞庫裡。解決問題的方法是，個人必須覺醒，對於那種製造垃圾者的問題可以不必作答。C'est comme ça!
[Edited at 2006-10-25 14:56]
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 07:34
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
KudoZ 點數根本不代表什麼！
Wenjer, that is your personal opinion and I respect that. However, there are people who think otherwise. You don't know what other outsourcers are thinking when they look for translators. Kudoz points might be an indication for them. Who knows?
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
幾個人串通起來，你問我答，命中率特高，點數互相積攢，煞有介事。
I don't deny that it is possible for such things to happen. However, if you believe this to be the only thing going on in Kudoz, I feel that is a bit sad. Is there nothing about Kudoz that has a positive impact on you? I think in life, we have to look on the bright side sometimes. It makes it easier for ourselves and other people.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
至於詞庫的建立，原本應該有助於整個社群，但若遇上一兩個特殊人物，不消一年，保證一大堆垃圾積攢在詞庫裡。解決問題的方法是，個人必須覺醒，對於那種製造垃圾者的問題可以不必作答。
With all due respect, can I ask what are your criteria for defining a "製造垃圾者"?
Denyce
[Edited at 2006-10-25 15:20]
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 07:34
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Simple questions | Oct 25, 2006 |
Yueyin Sun wrote:
我上面所说绝对不是针对你们两位。你俩都是好样的。:)
No, no, I do not think your comment is against me. I just wanted to say I am aware that some of my questions are quite simple. Sometimes I even feel a little "inferior" about posting these questions, but I thought to myself: there is nothing wrong with asking simple questions; I'd rather have colleagues laughing at me than having wrong translation.
Denyce
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Some Points to Make | Oct 25, 2006 |
Denyce Seow wrote: Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
KudoZ 點數根本不代表什麼！ Wenjer, that is your personal opinion and I respect that. However, there are people who think otherwise. You don't know what other outsourcers are thinking when they look for translators. Kudoz points might be an indication for them. Who knows?
Honestly, I really don't know. But one of my points is, those outsourcers who look for KudoZ high score translators could be seriously surprised. The solid way to judge a translator is to obeserve over period how he/she translates, how he/she presents himself/herself and how he/she interacts in the community. Everything you need to know about a translator is there. Those translators who hide their true selves are suspicious and shall be engaged with care and more obervation over time.
Denyce Seow wrote: Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
幾個人串通起來，你問我答，命中率特高，點數互相積攢，煞有介事。 I don't deny that it is possible for such things to happen. However, if you believe this to be the only thing going on in Kudoz, I feel that is a bit sad. Is there nothing about Kudoz that have a positive impact on you? I think in life, we have to look on the bright side sometimes. It makes it easier for ourselves and other people.
Do you believe that I believe that to be the ONLY thing going on in KudoZ? It must be very sad to believe that way!
KodoZ does have a positive impact on me. I get to know a lot of translators in different languages and some of them are qualified to work with me through their performance and their right attitude toward other colleagues and the community. For sure, KudoZ is the best device to know of translators. That is another one of the points I make and I made it in a previous thread I opened, too.
Denyce Seow wrote: Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
至於詞庫的建立，原本應該有助於整個社群，但若遇上一兩個特殊人物，不消一年，保證一大堆垃圾積攢在詞庫裡。解決問題的方法是，個人必須覺醒，對於那種製造垃圾者的問題可以不必作答。 With all due respect, can I ask what are your criteria for defining a "製造垃圾者"?
It's easy to define a KOG garbage producer: one who asks questions and doesn't or scarcely make proper entries into the KOG.
Besides, it is easy to identify those KOG garbage producers. Just take a look of the entries made of the questions raised and you will find out who are qualified for this title.
My points are clear and fair. I don't mind that other people have their own opinions, if theirs are really honest. So long the motives of their opinons are fair and honest, they earn my respect. Or else, I might not say anything most of the time, but I could think aloud sometimes.
However, I believe that each and every person is capable of discerning oneself and revising wrong-doings without acknowledging them publicly. For this reason, I hold it necessary that sometimes people shall think loud, just like me. And this point is not the last, though the least.
[Edited at 2006-10-26 02:33]
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 07:34
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | KOG garbage producer | Oct 25, 2006 |
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Do you believe that I believe that to be the ONLY thing going on in KudoZ? It must be very sad to believe that way!
I'm sorry if I have misunderstood you. It is just that this is the impression I get from your postings.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
It's easy to define a KOG garbage producer: one who asks questions and doesn't or scarcely make proper entries into the KOG.
Besides, it is easy to identify those KOG garbage producers. Just take a look of the entries made or the questions raised and you will find out who are qualified for this title.
I beg to differ. Many colleagues are not aware that they should make glossary entries. I only found out a few days ago! If you look at my list of Kudoz questions, you will notice many of them are not "glossed". I don't wish that this puts me in the "KOG garbage producer" league. Right now, I am going through my list to "gloss" whatever I can, and in future I will do that for all my questions. People should be given a chance to correct things. Like I said, I sent a reminder email to colleagues who did not "gloss" after closing their questions. Many of them replied with a positive response! I am confident that the situation will improve over time.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
My points are clear and fair. I don't mind that other people have their own opinions, if theirs are really honest. So long the motives of their opinons are fair and honest, they earn my respect. Or else, I might not say anything most of the time, but I could think loud sometimes.
I understand what you are saying. People have their own opinions and should be allowed to voice them. However, I also believe that there is always a nicer way of putting things across without hurting other people's feelings. Like you said, people observe how someone acts and behaves in a community. I am sure they prefer a tactful and positive person to someone who is sacarstic and negative. Am I right?
Peace,
Denyce
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 18:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
Denyce Seow wrote: Yueyin Sun wrote:
我上面所说绝对不是针对你们两位。你俩都是好样的。:)
No, no, I do not think your comment is against me. I just wanted to say I am aware that some of my questions are quite simple. Sometimes I even feel a little "inferior" about posting these questions, but I thought to myself: there is nothing wrong with asking simple questions; I'd rather have colleagues laughing at me than having wrong translation. Denyce
你这是认真的态度，无可非议。而且，有些貌似简单的问题，却往往是很难的。随便举个例子，学生“留级”，看起来很简单吧？但要想用一、两个单词译成美国人一看就能理解的短语，却不是件容易的事情。请看《汉英大辞典》的解释：
－留级(留班) (of pupils，etc) fail to go up to the next grade (year)；repeat the year's work；stay down; retardation; repetition; unpromotion
－留级生 detained student
我想美国人难以理解以上解释。如果你告诉一位美国人：He is a "detained student"，那老美也许会想，"detained by police?":D
我前面所说的现象是指个别人有时一连串提出几个甚至十几个问题，明显地是一查词典（包括网上词典）就可以查到的单词。别人帮他查了之后，他只是简单地给个分，甚至连谢都懒得说一声，好像反而是他给了别人恩惠似的。
[Edited at 2006-10-25 16:56]
| | | | | Create awareness | Oct 25, 2006 |
Hi Wenjer,
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
However, I believe that each and every person is capable of discerning oneself and revising wrong-doings without acknowledging them publicly. For this reason, I hold it necessary that sometimes people shall think loud, just like me.
I also find it important to voice one's opinion. Afterall, this is what the forums are for. As long as we don't attack one another, I find an exchange of opinions extremely important and constructive, and there is always something that we can learn from others.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:It's easy to define a KOG garbage producer: one who asks questions and doesn't or scarcely make proper entries into the KOG.
Besides, it is easy to identify those KOG garbage producers. Just take a look of the entries made or the questions raised and you will find out who are qualified for this title.
I wouldn't be so strict here. Some of our colleagues on ProZ.com might just not be aware of each and every rule that exists. So if they are not aware of a rule that questions should be closed and glossed, they shouldn't be judged as wrong-doers or garbage producers. They simply didn't know. Let's hope this whole thread has created awareness and will lead to an improved Chinese KOG.
Best wishes,
Stefanie
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Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 07:34
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Yueyin Sun wrote:
我前面所说的现象是指别人有时一连串提出几个甚至十几个问题，明显地是一查词典（包括网上词典）就可以查到的单词。别人帮他查了之后，他只是简单地给个分，甚至连谢都懒得说一声，好像反而是他给了别人恩惠似的。
I know what you mean. Whenever I see these questions, I ask myself: isn't it faster and less work to flip the dictionaries for answers? Well, I cannot guess what they are thinking, but I would like to believe that there is a reason somewhere. Personally, what irks me most is when an asker does not provide context, not even when you asked for it. It makes it difficult for the answerers to help.
Denyce
[Edited at 2006-10-25 16:21]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
| sincerity is what counts in my book | Oct 25, 2006 |
Denyce Seow wrote: Yueyin Sun wrote:
我前面所说的现象是指别人有时一连串提出几个甚至十几个问题，明显地是一查词典（包括网上词典）就可以查到的单词。别人帮他查了之后，他只是简单地给个分，甚至连谢都懒得说一声，好像反而是他给了别人恩惠似的。
I know what you mean. Whenever I see these questions, I ask myself: isn't it faster and less work to flip the dictionaries for answers? Well, I cannot guess what they are thinking, but I would like to believe that there is a reason somewhere. Personally, what irks me most is when an asker does not provide context, not even when you asked for it. It makes it difficult for the answerers to help. Denyce
I typically don't care about the degree of difficulty of a question. The most important thing for me is the attitude of the asker. As long as I perceive the person to be sincere, I would make an effort to help if possible.
People who just throw out a term with minimal or no context either lack sincerity or are not very "astute". How does one expect others to help without the slightest idea of any context? It's the most ridiculous thing I've witnessed in KudoZ.
[Edited at 2006-10-26 02:02]
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 07:34
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Sharing knowledge and experience | Oct 25, 2006 |
wherestip wrote:
I typically don't care about the degree of difficulty of a question. The most important thing for me is the attitude of the asker. As long as I perceive the person to be sincere, I would make an effort to help if possible.
Well said! You, and many others like Yueyin and Lu Zou, have helped me a lot with my questions. What I really appreciate are the explanations you guys give. Each time, I feel that you are sharing your knowledge and experience with me.
Denyce
[Edited at 2006-10-25 17:11]
| | | | Shang
China
Local time: 07:34
English to Chinese
Yueyin Sun wrote:
你这是认真的态度，无可非议。而且，有些貌似简单的问题，却往往是很难的。随便举个例子，学生“留级”，看起来很简单吧？但要想用一、两个单词译成美国人一看就能理解的短语，却不是件容易的事情。请看《汉英大辞典》的解释：
－留级(留班) (of pupils，etc) fail to go up to the next grade (year)；repeat the year's work；stay down; retardation; repetition; unpromotion
－留级生 detained student
我想美国人难以理解以上解释。如果你告诉一位美国人：He is a "detained student"，那老美也许会想，"detained by police?":D
我前面所说的现象是指个别人有时一连串提出几个甚至十几个问题，明显地是一查词典（包括网上词典）就可以查到的单词。别人帮他查了之后，他只是简单地给个分，甚至连谢都懒得说一声，好像反而是他给了别人恩惠似的。
[Edited at 2006-10-25 16:56]
还有一种情况：每个人都会有脑筋短路的时候，很简单的问题也想不明白，大概是当时过分专注于某个方面的缘故吧。碰到这种情况实在没办法，只好问个初级问题。
[Edited at 2006-10-25 17:38]
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Points Grow up to Dots | Oct 25, 2006 |
Stefanie Sendelbach wrote:
Hi Wenjer,
I also find it important to voice one's opinion. Afterall, this is what the forums are for. As long as we don't attack one another, I find an exchange of opinions extremely important and constructive, and there is always something that we can learn from others.
Hi Stefanie,
You see, most Chinese are not used to thinking aloud, because they have experienced enough punishments in their history. I think pretty often loud and that isn't quite convenient for some people.
However, I never call names and try to make the points as general as they can be. Actually, I would say, it is important to exchange minds, not just said opinions, for opinions are sometimes elaborated.
So, the one point I made becomes a dot now.
Stefanie Sendelbach wrote: Wenjer Leuschel wrote:It's easy to define a KOG garbage producer: one who asks questions and doesn't or scarcely make proper entries into the KOG.
Besides, it is easy to identify those KOG garbage producers. Just take a look of the entries made or the questions raised and you will find out who are qualified for this title. I wouldn't be so strict here. Some of our colleagues on ProZ.com might just not be aware of each and every rule that exists. So if they are not aware of a rule that questions should be closed and glossed, they shouldn't be judged as wrong-doers or garbage producers. They simply didn't know. Let's hope this whole thread has created awareness and will lead to an improved Chinese KOG. Best wishes, Stefanie
Awareness or consciousness comes from repect for others. Every one of us was in the first line aware of oneself. For our own benefits, we started sometime in our life to be aware of others and we develope that awareness into respect for others. It comes from inside and can be detected from outside.
Now, we would excuse a child without such awareness or consciousness, but not or scarcely an adult for lack of such full developed awareness.
My words may be harsh, but I have to make this one point into a dot here. It is not a case of rules, but a case of "Pflichtbewußtsein," awareness of obligations which comes from inside as described above.
I am pretty sure that this thread is going to create awareness, not of rules, but of something from inside of every one of us. (Von mir aus, wenn es nur deswegen, weil ich laut gedacht und kräftig gehammert habe.)
Don't worry. People are mostly "anpassungsfähig," able to adjust. No matter how harsch one speaks, nobody would get hurt just like that. Besides, I don't swear or call names, for my sake. (You know what I mean, to avoid calling my Lord.)
Have a nice evening!
- Wenjer
[Edited at 2006-10-25 18:34]
| | | | Chinoise
Local time: 20:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
| "anpassungfähig" | Oct 25, 2006 |
Ich habe das Wort gelernt...aber jetzt habe ich es vergessen.
Ich bin neugierig: Was bedeutet es?
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Don't worry. People are mostly "anpassungfähig," able to adjust.
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Anpassungsfähig | Oct 25, 2006 |
Chinoise wrote: Ich habe das Wort gelernt...aber jetzt habe ich es vergessen. Ich bin neugierig: Was bedeutet es?
掉了個小 "s"，是 anpassungsfähig 才對。意思是：有適應能力的。
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