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Chinese Kudoz Open Glossary
Thread poster: Denyce Seow

Denyce Seow  Identity Verified
Singapore
Local time: 14:58
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
Oct 22, 2006

I am sure most of you know that ProZ has a KudoZ Open Glossary (KOG). It is a glossary of terms translated by ProZ.com translators via the KudoZ help network. The KOG can provide very valuable resources for translators, given that it is well maintained. For example, my partner, a German translator, uses the German KOG every day. To her, it is a better resource than the internet in many cases.

How many of you use the KOG as a resource when translating? I doubt many of you do. I seldom use it too as I find it to be in quite a mess (pardon my honesty). If you go through the entries in the Chinese KOG, you will realise some of them have terms like “FYI”, “suggestion” and “try”. In addition, while going through some of the old KudoZ questions, I also found that many askers and answerers did not “gloss” the answers. This means we are throwing out a lot of useful information. Hence, I think we should encourage everyone to be conscious of maintaining the Chinese KOG. If every participant in Chinese KudoZ does his/her part in “glossing” and entering proper terms, I am sure we will have a very impressive online dictionary soon.

Besides helping to compile an online dictionary, you will also benefit by earning Browniz. To find out more on how to earn Browniz and what you can do with them, please go to: http://www.proz.com/faq/browniz#how_to_get_browniz.

One thing to note is that you can “gloss” your old questions. First, go to your list of asked and answered questions (you can find them at Kudoz > My Kudoz), and you will see a “gloss” column. Questions that are not “glossed” have a “no”, and questions that are “glossed” have an “ok”. You can “gloss” your own questions or your answers that were selected. With each “gloss”, you earn 10 Browniz.

Many of you here are very active in Kudoz and have made a lot of contributions to the Chinese KudoZ community. I hope you can bring it a step further by helping ProZ maintain the Chinese KOG. On my part, I will go through some of the old questions and make sure the encoding is correct and that the proper terms are entered. In the end, our KOG should have one target term/sentence for one source term/sentence. Let’s hope we can get rid of all the “FYI”, “suggestion” and “try” entries.

If you have any questions regarding the KOG, please feel free to ask. In the meantime, have fun “glossing”!!

Kind regards,
Denyce

[Edited at 2006-10-22 23:38]


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Inga Jakobi  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:58
Member (2006)
Chinese to German
+ ...
good suggestion! Oct 23, 2006

Hi Denyce,
I think it is good that you brought up this forum because although we had a long discussion about the Chinese-English Kudoz few weeks ago and probably everybody still remembers, we didn't really talk about the glossary then. I tried to use it, but 'till now I never found the terms I was searching for, but this should be even more motivation to maintain it well. It' a very good idea that everybody looks through his/her old questions and maybe changes or adds some entries. Maybe this would also help change the attitude of the answerers regarding "fyi" answers and the like.
Regards,
Inga


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Denyce Seow  Identity Verified
Singapore
Local time: 14:58
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
A long-term project Oct 23, 2006

Pirily wrote:

I tried to use it, but 'till now I never found the terms I was searching for, but this should be even more motivation to maintain it well.


It is no wonder you did not find any terms. Take a look at this statistics (rough count):

Chinese-English (Business/Commerce - general) - 205 entries
Chinese-English (Medical - general) - 345 entries
Chinese-English (IT) - 50 entries
Chinese-English (Engineering) - 100 entries
English-Chinese (Business/Commerce - general) - 150 entries
English-Chinese (Medical - general) - 182 entries
English-Chinese (IT) - 680 entries
English-Chinese (Engineering) - 58 entries

I was shocked to see this. We have so many KudoZ questions every day, so where are they now? Many questions are still not "glossed" and that is why they are not showing in the KOG.

Pirily wrote:

Maybe this would also help change the attitude of the answerers regarding "fyi" answers and the like.


I am sure we will put in more effort in "glossing" (and in a correct way) when we realise the potential that the KOG has, as well as the benefit it brings as a powerful online tool. This is a long-term project that requires the committment and cooperation of every member in the Chinese community.

Kind regards,
Denyce


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
It's going to be a hard work. Oct 23, 2006

Yes, Denyce, the Chinese KOG is useless for the mess. Some people produce a lot of good questions and the others provide even more good answers, but nobody cares to make right rentries into the KOG. That was why the mess.

Now, if you are going to cleanse the KOG, it will take a lot of energy and time. It's not a project like localization of ProZ.com website. It's something more tedious. Do you think that we can find people willing to knee down for such a job? You see, I really doubt.

You don't use the Chinese KOG. Me, neither. And I believe most of us Chinese translators just don't use it. So, why bother, some would say. However, when I get some time, I will look into the mess and try to find out a strategy to make it easier for people to join in.

I don't know when, but I wish you luck to find some more people who would be willing to take on the job.

- Wenjer


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:58
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Proz.com term search Oct 23, 2006

I use this very frequently. It is more useful than the Kudoz open glossary, as it contains all the questions asked, regardless of its entry in the glossary.

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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
Uninterested in earning Browniz... Oct 23, 2006

But I will take a try then:)
Denyce Seow wrote:

Besides helping to compile an online dictionary, you will also benefit by earning Browniz. To find out more on how to earn Browniz and what you can do with them, please go to: http://www.proz.com/faq/browniz#how_to_get_browniz.



[Edited at 2006-10-23 13:24]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
另外補充一些看法 Oct 23, 2006

造成詞庫目前的情況,冰凍三尺非一日之寒。事實上,提問的人有義務在獲得答案後,輸入中選的正確的詞語,而非任由那些不相干的字詞留在詞庫裡。

依據我的觀察,問題不多的人反倒規規矩矩輸入正確的詞語,問題特多的人大體上由於疏懶,小問題也不願意費力自己查找,丟出來讓同仁賺個幾分點數,但得到答案後卻又懶得輸入詞語。

這是造成今日不便局面的真正原因。等著別人來收拾嗎?太陽炙熱,每個人自顧不暇,掙錢重要,我看大概也只有 Betty 這樣的人會那麼大方,願意撥時間去做。我自己雖然偶而有時間,卻常常覺得有更重要的事得做,替別人擦屁股似乎沒有多大必要。

當然,罵人不是長者、仁者的風範,能一聲不吭、不作為,似乎也很符合漢文化相信的智者態度,所以我還是不多說的好。人只有一條命,犯不著為了缺乏公德的人而傷害自己。至於要清理 KOG 的問題,我看很可能做到西元 3000 年。為什麼不要求提問題的人來清理呢?


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
说来惭愧! Oct 23, 2006

我已经好长时间没答题了,真觉得有点儿对不起观众:)

顺便问一下Denyce:可以将KudoZ分捐给其他译友吗?(我不敢答题的一个重要原因就是嫌自己的KudoZ分太多了)。


Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

這是造成今日不便局面的真正原因。等著別人來收拾嗎?太陽炙熱,每個人自顧不暇,掙錢重要,我看大概也只有 Betty 這樣的人會那麼大方,願意撥時間去做。我自己雖然偶而有時間,卻常常覺得有更重要的事得做,替別人擦屁股似乎沒有多大必要。



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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
這樣說就不恰當了 Oct 23, 2006

Chinoise wrote:

我已经好长时间没答题了,真觉得有点儿对不起观众:)

顺便问一下Denyce:可以将KudoZ分捐给其他译友吗?(我不敢答题的一个重要原因就是嫌自己的KudoZ分太多了)。


Betty,

有些人真正需要別人幫助,而且自己也很努力求取知識,懂得回饋社群,回答他們的問題是一種對他們以及社群的愛護。KudoZ 分數一點都不代表什麼,我非常相信,像你、我、樂音、李博士和傅老這樣的人,不要那些分數照樣隨時有做不完的項目,想休息一下還真的要用心找時間。(差點忘了提一位很少現身的人,Luzou,像他那樣的人一點都不需要做什麼宣傳廣告,我雖然不認識他,有客戶需要特殊才能的翻譯者時,我都是把他在 ProZ.com 的帳號告訴他們,讓他們自行去聯絡他。有翻譯功底和寬厚心性的人,別人不是看不出來的。)

KOG 的問題已經存在,我不過指出造成問題的主要原因,也表示對於根本解決問題的看法:提問者有義務輸入正確的詞語。這拆白來說,一點都無干誰積攢多少分數。我高興賺誰的 KudoZ 分數,很自然會花一點時間給他,幫他找答案,對於那種需要別人擦屁股的,大可不理,KudoZ 點數和 BrowniZ 又不能叫人長得強壯,也不會增長人的智慧一絲一毫。耶穌怎麼說山谷裡的野百合的?KudoZ 點數太多也叫人煩惱嗎?

比較切合實際的是,把道理講清楚,讓社群不至於因某些人而被糟蹋了。比方說,傅老對我說直話,又表示尊重,我當然也得節制些,不要老是投出擦板球。要清理 KOG 的問題,最好的辦法還是要求提問者履行對社群應盡的義務。That's all and nothing more.

- Wenjer


[Edited at 2006-10-23 19:03]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
无题 Oct 23, 2006

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

KudoZ 分數一點都不代表什麼,我非常相信,像你、我、樂音、李博士和傅老這樣的人,不要那些分數照樣隨時有做不完的項目,想休息一下還真的要用心找時間。


贝某专业水平很有限,岂敢与您们这几位译界巨腕(当然还包括超级巨星Shaun)相提并论!


比較切合實際的是,把道理講清楚,讓社群不至於因某些人而被糟蹋了。比方說,傅老對我說直話,又表示尊重,我當然也得節制些,不要老是投出擦板球。That's all and nothing more.


这段话大家都很爱看。看来还是傅老师的文字功夫深,不需要chance帮忙,也能将您说服过来,佩服!


[修改时间: 2006-10-23 22:04]


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Denyce Seow  Identity Verified
Singapore
Local time: 14:58
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Individual efforts, not group project Oct 23, 2006

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Yes, Denyce, the Chinese KOG is useless for the mess. Some people produce a lot of good questions and the others provide even more good answers, but nobody cares to make right rentries into the KOG. That was why the mess.

Now, if you are going to cleanse the KOG, it will take a lot of energy and time. It's not a project like localization of ProZ.com website. It's something more tedious. Do you think that we can find people willing to knee down for such a job? You see, I really doubt.

You don't use the Chinese KOG. Me, neither. And I believe most of us Chinese translators just don't use it. So, why bother, some would say. However, when I get some time, I will look into the mess and try to find out a strategy to make it easier for people to join in.

I don't know when, but I wish you luck to find some more people who would be willing to take on the job.

- Wenjer


Hi Wenjer,

I'm afraid there is a misunderstanding here. I don't plan to set up a project team to maintain the KOG. I am asking askers and answerers to (1) "gloss" after a question is closed and (2) enter proper source/target terms into the KOG instead of "FYI", "suggestion", etc. As for old questions that are not "glossed", the asker and answerer can go back to these questions to "gloss" them. We do not have to "gloss" other people's old questions. Every one should do it for their own questions. I agree with you that askers have the obligation to "gloss" the answers. Afterall, this is a little contribution they can make after receiving help from ProZ. Right?

I understand that all of us here are busy, so maintaining KOG is definitely not a priority. However, when we have the time, we might like to go through our old questions and help to "gloss" them. This does not have to be done overnight or immediately. If each of us "glosses" a few questions a week, we will soon have a much better KOG.

The reason why I opened this thread is to create a higher awareness of the KOG benefits. Once people realise the benefits, they will be more conscious in "glossing" their answers.

Kind regards,
Denyce


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Denyce Seow  Identity Verified
Singapore
Local time: 14:58
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Donate BrowniZ Oct 23, 2006

Chinoise wrote:

顺便问一下Denyce:可以将KudoZ分捐给其他译友吗?(我不敢答题的一个重要原因就是嫌自己的KudoZ分太多了)。


Betty, you can donate BrowniZ but not KudoZ points. Take a look at this:

I have excess browniz points. Can I donate them to other members?

If you are a platinum member, you may donate 4000 of your browniz points at a time to up to 5 non-platinum colleagues. To do so, visit http://www.proz.com/?sp=bz_donate.

Since 4000 browniz points can be exchanged for a discount on platinum membership, this amounts to donating a discount on platinum membership to your colleagues.

Hope this helps.

Denyce


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Denyce Seow  Identity Verified
Singapore
Local time: 14:58
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Web Term Search Oct 23, 2006

Zhoudan wrote:

I use this very frequently. It is more useful than the Kudoz open glossary, as it contains all the questions asked, regardless of its entry in the glossary.


Good to hear that you are using the Web Term Search function. Actually, KOG is an important part of the Web Term Search. I know when you search for terms there, you can see (1) "glossed" answers, (2) all questions asked, (3) personal glossary entries and (4) links to external glossaries (Glosspost). However, in the KudoZ archive results, you can only see the source term. If you want to see the target term, you need to go to the question. This is a little troublesome compared to the KOG results, where the target term is just next to the source term.

Actually, I am curious to know if other translators use Web Term Search as well... Zhou Dan, what do you think are the advantages and disadvantages? What can be improved?

Denyce

[Edited at 2006-10-23 23:51]


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chica nueva
Local time: 19:58
Chinese to English
system problems? Oct 24, 2006

Zhoudan wrote:

I use this very frequently. It is more useful than the Kudoz open glossary, as it contains all the questions asked, regardless of its entry in the glossary.


Agree. I used to use Kudoz Term Search all the time (when I was answering Kudoz questions). It was very good. But I have noticed two things which have happened over the past 6 months or so.

1 Kudoz term search is not functional? But since Kudoz changed or since the membership changed, (I am not sure which) I haven't been able to, I don't know why. ... I mentioned this a few times in the Kudoz but there was no response, so I thought no one else cared about it, and that it Kudoz term search is no longer functional.
-> There is no point trying to maintain something that doesn't work and which no-one uses.

2 Involuntary glossary entries? As for FYI answers, these are generally not translations, they are just terms help. Mostly people wouldn't choose to put them in the glossary.
But recently, I found when I closed my Kudoz questions I had no option but to put the answers in the glossary. Why is this? I think the email reminder notices are coming through in such a way that if you action them then your choice goes into the glossary automatically. Whereas if you close the Kudoz question directly from the site, that doesn't happen.
-> People are not choosing to put those answers in the glossary, they have no control over it.

I suggest there might be 'system problems' that could be looked into perhaps, and that Proz users are not necessarily to blame for the present situation.


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chica nueva
Local time: 19:58
Chinese to English
In Kudoz term search you can do a bothways search... Oct 24, 2006

Denyce Seow wrote:
However, in the KudoZ archive results, you can only see the source term. If you want to see the target term, you need to go to the question. Denyce

[Edited at 2006-10-23 23:51]


In Kudoz term search you can do a bothways search...just tick the appropriate box, no problem.


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