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Thread poster: peiling
Zhoudan
Zhoudan  Identity Verified
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我也正想问 Dec 21, 2006

好像是一块纺织品。看了照片上这副画,我突然想到,其实可以去买几个镜框,剪几块有特色的布镶进去,挂在墙上就是很好的装饰品。

pkchan wrote:

請問DAVID﹕牆上的畫是什麼東東,是纂刻還是圖案。


 
David Shen
David Shen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:33
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镜框装的绣品 Dec 21, 2006

Zhoudan wrote:
好像是一块纺织品。看了照片上这副画,我突然想到,其实可以去买几个镜框,剪几块有特色的布镶进去,挂在墙上就是很好的装饰品。
pkchan wrote:
請問DAVID﹕牆上的畫是什麼東東,是纂刻還是圖案。


pk, Steve and Zhoudan:

这画框内的作品确实是被褥一类的绣品,是一种贴绣(applique),这件作品我没凑近仔细看(看刚认识的姑娘们都来不及,谁还管那个玩艺),但我知道它是一种中南美洲印第安人的贴绣作品。墨西哥南方至巴拿马的 KUNA族印第安人有种传统工艺叫作"mola", 针脚极为细密。请见:
http://thorup.com/molaindex_thum.html

但是这件作品用色沉着(咖啡店里突出咖啡色),而且其图案不代表任何动植物,纯粹图案,有几处极象我们大篆中的金文,即青铜器上的“回纹”和“雷纹”,故引得pk兄发问。这件作品可能是古董。大部分mola绣品色彩艳丽,除了玉米鲜花,我还看到过有蛇蝎之类的题材,跟我国民间绣品“五毒艾虎”图案十分相似。

贴绣是将布片剪成图案,放在织物表面,再用很细密的针脚将布片固定在底层织物上形成图案的方法。 这种贴绣方法各国基本都有,我们文化中用“蝠禄桃喜”等图案较多。如固定前在布片内塞些棉花让图案部分凸起,则有立体感,称“堆绣” (padded applique)。

周丹你的观察还真有“一眼看破”的本事。纺织品当美术作品挂,效果很好,往往使人感到室内的温馨,为纸上作品所不能及。但为纺织品配框比较复杂,条件之一,不能让它碰到玻璃, 否则日久易生霉变。所以要用盒子式的有一定深度的画框装。此处就是这样的盒式框,叫 "shadow box", 我们的温州贝雕,羽毛画之类的工艺品就是用盒式框来陈列的。不过聪明能干的温州人20-30年前就发现了,贝雕刻得再好,还不如钮扣、皮鞋来得好卖,从此好的贝雕手艺就慢慢失传了。反正温州人家里都请美人鱼当保姆了,贝雕之类的破玩艺谁还会要?



[Edited at 2006-12-21 09:56]


 
David Shen
David Shen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
老傅南下 Dec 21, 2006

老傅南下看千金,一刻时千金。
希望能占你一天,哥俩谈谈心。
这次POWWOW茶未凉,意犹未尽。
电话已附上,到时来个滴铃铃。


 
Zhoudan
Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
刚才我也在想那是什么框 Dec 21, 2006

这下我记住了。原来配框还有许多学问。

如今配画框也不便宜呢!

David Shen wrote:

但为纺织品配框比较复杂,条件之一,不能让它碰到玻璃, 否则日久易生霉变。所以要用盒子式的有一定深度的画框装。此处就是这样的盒式框,叫 "shadow box",


 
peiling
peiling  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
不愧是专家 Dec 23, 2006

喝咖啡之余想起大家的讨论,走近一看,可不就是Congo的Swoowa族的Kuba Dance Skirt!这个是用raffia织的.不禁从心底佩服David的见识.

David Shen wrote:
这画框内的作品确实是被褥一类的绣品,是一种贴绣(applique),这件作品我没凑近仔细看(看刚认识的姑娘们都来不及,谁还管那个玩艺),但我知道它是一种中南美洲印第安人的贴绣作品。墨西哥南方至巴拿马的 KUNA族印第安人有种传统工艺叫作"mola", 针脚极为细密。请见:
http://thorup.com/molaindex_thum.html[/quote]

 
David Shen
David Shen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
Thanks for the great link! Dec 25, 2006

Pei Ling Haußecker wrote:
...走近一看,可不就是Congo的Swoowa族的Kuba Dance Skirt!这个是用raffia织的...


I did not really step close to look at what was in the picture frame that day as I normally would (because I was feeling abnormal that day). But at the very first glance as we were looking for a place to sit down, the picture looked to me like one of those mola fabrics from Centural America.

Your link led me to search for this interesting "raffia grass" and found the following great pictures with incredible designs:

http://home.clara.net/adire/kubagallery.htm

These patterns bear great similarities to the designs on Chinese Bronze Vessels of the Warring States period, from which many of early Chinese silk textile patterns derive.

This is what I was talking about when I said 青铜器上的“回纹”和“雷纹”:
http://home.clara.net/adire/kubacloth20.htm
http://home.clara.net/adire/kubacloth3.htm

One common characteristic of these African textile pieces is that their designs are simple yet strong, color austere yet showing great harmony of black/brown and white, different from the bright-colored Centural American mola pieces.

When talking about using grass or tree bark to make clothes, the Polynesian Islanders of the Pacific have long used the bark of trees to make garments for wearing as well as hand-bags and stuff. These tree-bark made clothes are off-white:
http://www.austmus.gov.au/anthropology/images/collections/costume_vv2906_lg.jpg
and the Australian Aborigenes also use barks for clothes and paintings, but they are more primitive:
http://www.aboriginal-art.com/collections_pages/waba1.html
http://www.aboriginal-art.com/collections_pages/neab1.html

Compared with these images, our Chinese art subjects and motifs such as the peach and bat and deer and dates and lotus seeds have become so "civilized" that they have lost a sense of vitality, they are no more than just a symbol for wishes and good luck. The funny thing is, for those who are already in good luck, they keep asking for more, that means they squeeze those who do not ask for too much out of any luck at all.

May the reader of this sily post have a balanced sense of good luck. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


 
David Shen
David Shen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
A Mini Powwow of Great Pleasure in San Francisco Dec 25, 2006

Hi, Steve, Yueyin, Kevin, chance, pk, Betty and Wenjer and all friends back home in China,

Just a quick note to let you know that Xiaoping and I enjoyed tea and wine and a great chat for more than 3 hours 3 blocks from the blue waters of the Pacific in the Sunset District near the Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, I assume the same time while Steve and Yueyin were enjoying they chat and food.

I will post some photos of the food I had next couple of days. I assure you I
... See more
Hi, Steve, Yueyin, Kevin, chance, pk, Betty and Wenjer and all friends back home in China,

Just a quick note to let you know that Xiaoping and I enjoyed tea and wine and a great chat for more than 3 hours 3 blocks from the blue waters of the Pacific in the Sunset District near the Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, I assume the same time while Steve and Yueyin were enjoying they chat and food.

I will post some photos of the food I had next couple of days. I assure you I had better food than Texas size steak. It is certainly going to be a top-quality menu on Betty's Gourmet City!
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wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
coffee shop decoration Dec 25, 2006

David Shen wrote:

Pei Ling Haußecker wrote:
...走近一看,可不就是Congo的Swoowa族的Kuba Dance Skirt!这个是用raffia织的...


I did not really step close to look at what was in the picture frame that day as I normally would (because I was feeling abnormal that day). But at the very first glance as we were looking for a place to sit down, the picture looked to me like one of those mola fabrics from Centural America.

Your link led me to search for this interesting "raffia grass" and found the following great pictures with incredible designs:

http://home.clara.net/adire/kubagallery.htm

These patterns bear great similarities to the designs on Chinese Bronze Vessels of the Warring States period, from which many of early Chinese silk textile patterns derive.

This is what I was talking about when I said 青铜器上的“回纹”和“雷纹”:
http://home.clara.net/adire/kubacloth20.htm
http://home.clara.net/adire/kubacloth3.htm

One common characteristic of these African textile pieces is that their designs are simple yet strong, color austere yet showing great harmony of black/brown and white, different from the bright-colored Centural American mola pieces.



David and Pei Ling,

I agree with David that it looks more like a central American piece. I found this mola design on the web, the pattern and colorization of which look quite similar to those of the decorative piece in that coffee shop.

http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/minigalleries/panamamolas/1966-0434blouse.shtm

A wikipedia link explains that mola is the textile art form of the Kuna people of Panama and Colombia. That kind of makes sense since Columbia is famous for its coffee.


[Edited at 2006-12-25 02:40]


 
Kevin Yang
Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:33
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
My tea toast to your happy gathering! Dec 25, 2006

David Shen wrote:

Hi, Steve, Yueyin, Kevin, chance, pk, Betty and Wenjer and all friends back home in China,

Just a quick note to let you know that Xiaoping and I enjoyed tea and wine and a great chat for more than 3 hours 3 blocks from the blue waters of the Pacific in the Sunset District near the Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, I assume the same time while Steve and Yueyin were enjoying they chat and food.

I will post some photos of the food I had next couple of days. I assure you I had better food than Texas size steak. It is certainly going to be a top-quality menu on Betty's Gourmet City!



Hey, Dave and Xiaoping

Wow, Xiaoping made all way to CA? I thought he was just talking about it. No wonder I have not heard from him for many days. Like Yueyin and Steve were saying, after you got to know each other online, when you see each other in person, you feel like you have known each other for long time. If he just left San Fran, that means he will swing by my place on the way back to Canada.

Kevin

[修改时间: 2006-12-25 06:03]


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 14:33
Chinese to English
Chinese Santa Claus Dec 25, 2006

David Shen wrote:


Compared with these images, our Chinese art subjects and motifs such as the peach and bat and deer and dates and lotus seeds have become so "civilized" that they have lost a sense of vitality, they are no more than just a symbol for wishes and good luck. The funny thing is, for those who are already in good luck, they keep asking for more, that means they squeeze those who do not ask for too much out of any luck at all.

May the reader of this sily post have a balanced sense of good luck. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!






I received a surprise this Christmas, a card from a workmate. On it is a Santa Claus like no Santa Claus I have ever seen (or noticed) before. I am sure the old man in the long red gown with the long white beard, handlebar moustache and the tall red Uncle Sam style tall red hat, and the apple red cheeks and black eyes red lips and yellow complexion is Chinese. He is standing in the falling snow surrounded by attendants: squirrel deer rabbit fox mouse and three birds (what are they? a bluebird a red jay and a ? perhaps they are North American?).

Anyhow I am sure there is Chinese symbolism here which I hope to understand some day. Your comment on symbols 'wishes and good luck' perhaps gives some clue.

There is nothing anywhere on this card to say who printed it or which country it originates from but my workmate is Chinese from Hong Kong.


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
Merry Christmas! Dec 25, 2006

David Shen wrote:
Just a quick note to let you know that Xiaoping and I enjoyed tea and wine and a great chat for more than 3 hours 3 blocks from the blue waters of the Pacific in the Sunset District near the Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, I assume the same time while Steve and Yueyin were enjoying they chat and food.


David,

I am very glad to hear that you and Xiaoping had great time as Steve and I had. Steve and I talked for 2.5 hrs during lunch. The restaurant got so crowded that we had to leave. Otherwise, we might go on with our talk until dinner time and have dinner together.


 
Xiaoping Fu
Xiaoping Fu  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
后会有期 Jan 3, 2007

Kevin:

我们明天一大早就离开旧金山回去了。这趟旅行非常愉快,但也有不少遗憾。由于担心天气选择了坐飞机而不是开车,所以通讯和活动受限,没能与更多的朋友相见。最遗憾的是没有办法在俄罗冈停下来,去看看你的新居,和神交已久的老朋友面对面谈天说地。留下这个不满足,下次一定开车来。第一站就在你那里歇脚。然后我们结伴南下,去会David、Pei Ling和�
... See more
Kevin:

我们明天一大早就离开旧金山回去了。这趟旅行非常愉快,但也有不少遗憾。由于担心天气选择了坐飞机而不是开车,所以通讯和活动受限,没能与更多的朋友相见。最遗憾的是没有办法在俄罗冈停下来,去看看你的新居,和神交已久的老朋友面对面谈天说地。留下这个不满足,下次一定开车来。第一站就在你那里歇脚。然后我们结伴南下,去会David、Pei Ling和其他朋友。

小平

TongliUSA wrote:

Hey, Dave and Xiaoping

Wow, Xiaoping made all way to CA? I thought he was just talking about it. No wonder I have not heard from him for many days. Like Yueyin and Steve were saying, after you got to know each other online, when you see each other in person, you feel like you have known each other for long time. If he just left San Fran, that means he will swing by my place on the way back to Canada.

Kevin

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peiling
peiling  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How about posting the picture of this curious Santa? Jan 3, 2007

Lesley McLachlan wrote:
I received a surprise this Christmas, a card from a workmate. On it is a Santa Claus like no Santa Claus I have ever seen (or noticed) before. I am sure the old man in the long red gown with the long white beard, handlebar moustache and the tall red Uncle Sam style tall red hat, and the apple red cheeks and black eyes red lips and yellow complexion is Chinese. He is standing in the falling snow surrounded by attendants: squirrel deer rabbit fox mouse and three birds (what are they? a bluebird a red jay and a ? perhaps they are North American?).


 
peiling
peiling  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:33
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+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
夏天如何? Jan 3, 2007

Xiaoping Fu wrote:

Kevin:

我们明天一大早就离开旧金山回去了。这趟旅行非常愉快,但也有不少遗憾。由于担心天气选择了坐飞机而不是开车,所以通讯和活动受限,没能与更多的朋友相见。最遗憾的是没有办法在俄罗冈停下来,去看看你的新居,和神交已久的老朋友面对面谈天说地。留下这个不满足,下次一定开车来。第一站就在你那里歇脚。然后我们结伴南下,去会David、Pei Ling和其他朋友。

小平


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 14:33
Chinese to English
My technology is basic... Jan 3, 2007

Pei Ling Haußecker wrote:

Lesley McLachlan wrote:
I received a surprise this Christmas, a card from a workmate. On it is a Santa Claus like no Santa Claus I have ever seen (or noticed) before. I am sure the old man in the long red gown with the long white beard, handlebar moustache and the tall red Uncle Sam style tall red hat, and the apple red cheeks and black eyes red lips and yellow complexion is Chinese. He is standing in the falling snow surrounded by attendants: squirrel deer rabbit fox mouse and three birds (what are they? a bluebird a red jay and a ? perhaps they are North American?).


Thanks Pei Ling. That would be the idea but I can't. Sorry about that. My technology is too old and too basic.


 
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