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到底哪些说法算是Cliché?
Thread poster: Jason Ma

Jason Ma  Identity Verified
China
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Sep 24, 2007

首先祝各位中秋节快乐!

从来没有在海外生活过,虽然有不少用英语的机会,但总觉得有些话会不会是很过时的Cliché呢?
希望能得到各位的指点。谢谢。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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cliches Sep 24, 2007

Martin Jones wrote:


从来没有在海外生活过,虽然有不少用英语的机会,但总觉得有些话会不会是很过时的Cliché呢?
希望能得到各位的指点。谢谢。



Martin,

That's a very good point and an interesting topic you brought up.

Here's the definition of a cliche ...



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cliche

1. a trite, stereotyped expression; a sentence or phrase, usually expressing a popular or common thought or idea, that has lost originality, ingenuity, and impact by long overuse, as sadder but wiser, or strong as an ox.



Incidentally, for someone who hadn't been keeping up with the development of Chinese, I first encountered the expression "仁者见仁、智者见智" after joining this forum. At the time I was glad to have learned something new - little did I know it was an out-and-out cliche!

I think there's a difference in attitude towards cliches. In the Chinese culture people tend to favor the use of 成语, while in other languages, such as English, the overuse of a certain saying is not that appreciated.

IMO the avoidance of the use of cliches in a second language is more of an advanced topic, a secondary issue if you will The more important thing IMO is to make sure that when using an idiom or common expression, it is being used appropriately and not out of place.

I'm sure there are many discussions on how to avoid cliches on the web ... I'll try to find some a little later.



[Edited at 2007-09-25 02:16]


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Jason Ma  Identity Verified
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就好像平常老说every coin has two sides Sep 24, 2007

crocodile tears, every dog has its day. 过后觉得这是不是一种老土的说法呢?

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Jason Ma  Identity Verified
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Thanks! Steve Sep 24, 2007

I followed the link you provided, that is really informative.

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wherestip  Identity Verified
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For native writers, this problem is what they refer to as using too many cliches Sep 24, 2007

That's why I say it's really a secondary issue for people using English as a second language ...



http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Avoid-Cliches---That-Sounds-Familiar&id=276057

How To Avoid Cliches - That Sounds Familiar
By Scott Lindsay

When writing articles, stories for full blown manuscripts it is often in your best interest to avoid common phrases or colloquialisms. Many writers refer to the overuse of these phrases as cliché and they avoid them like the plague.

It may take some work to find new ways to say something you’ve relied on clichés to say for you.

Two exercises I have used for this is to pick a vocabulary list and only use words on that list to compose a thought. It’s amazing how creative you can get when forced into a narrowly defined list of words. The second exercise is to simply remove a letter from the alphabet and provide ground rules that say the letter ‘g’ (or any other letter you choose) can not be used in the thought you are working through. If a word you want to use has ‘g’ in it you will need to find an alternative word.

The primary use for colloquialisms is in fiction writing where period dialect dictates that an overused phrase that was commonly used during the time period of the story should be used. In these cases common phrases of the era may simply help identify the setting and the mannerisms of the character.

In Christian writing common colloquialisms are often referred to as ‘Christianese’. These phrases have meaning for those who know Christ, but often sound like some sort or code to those who are not Christians. It is in the best interest of Christian writers to find alternative ways to convey truths that have been reduced to ‘Christianese’.

However you look at colloquialisms it is safe to say that these common phrases have their roots in something most often forgotten. For instance the term, “the whole nine yards” is a term that is often used to describe an all encompassing amount. The original phrase came about during Word War II to describe the effect of machine guns mounted on air craft. If all the ammunition was used in one run it covered 27 feet or “the whole nine yards”. While the original meaning is no longer connected with the term, its original intent was maximum coverage and that’s what the colloquialism represents today.

The primary word of caution is to minimize the use of common terms, phrases or slang whenever possible. If the slang is present day it will likely be passé before your piece can be published and will sound dated. If the slang is from the past, but is overdone it may sound like a visit to ‘Cliché Town” according to fellow author David Ian.

When you proof your manuscript look for phrases that seem familiar, chances are very strong that the line has been overused and will minimize the impact you desire for your piece. If possible find a new way to convey an old truth. You, your publisher and your reader will be glad you did.



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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Some more on how to avoid cliches in English Sep 24, 2007

http://www.barbarabrabec.com/writing_publishing/avoid_cliches.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/87025/avoid_cliches_to_make_your_writing.html


As you can see from the following links, some of what people think of as cliches are actually pretty good if you ask me, especially if used correctly

http://www.suspense.net/whitefish/cliche.htm

http://cliche.theinfo.org/cliches


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isahuang
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There is probably also a difference between American English and British Englihs Sep 24, 2007

when it comes to cliche

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pkchan  Identity Verified
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中文就譯作﹕ Sep 24, 2007

陳腔濫調,老生常談,甚至黨八股

[Edited at 2007-09-24 16:35]


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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如果非常符合語境﹐ Sep 24, 2007

用了陳詞濫調也未嘗不可。有時甚至可以產生正面的效果。比如在一篇很現代的題材中加入一些30年前的陳詞濫調﹐有的讀者可能認為你的筆法CUTE/COOL。

另一方面﹐只要你不刻意去找陳詞濫調拿來用﹐ 在翻譯實踐中應該很少遇到不小心使用了陳詞濫調的情況﹐一年出現一兩回﹐這算不上個事兒。

我的做法是儘量避免使用IDIOM。翻譯的目的是溝通﹐不是作文比賽﹐沒必要堆砌辭藻﹐這樣就有助于避免你提出的問題。

什麼叫陳詞濫調﹖有的很新的詞﹐很快就變成了陳詞濫調﹐比如
touch base, on the same page等等。

什麼叫陳詞濫調﹖我的這個帖子里就有幾個﹐比如“未嘗不可”﹐比如“實踐”。


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
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同意 Sep 24, 2007

不顧上下文一味堆砌華麗辭藻﹐表現不出活力和特點的就是陳詞濫調的一種形式。

jyuan_us wrote:

用了陳詞濫調也未嘗不可。有時甚至可以產生正面的效果。比如在一篇很現代的題材中加入一些30年前的陳詞濫調﹐有的讀者可能認為你的筆法CUTE/COOL。

另一方面﹐只要你不刻意去找陳詞濫調拿來用﹐ 在翻譯實踐中應該很少遇到不小心使用了陳詞濫調的情況﹐一年出現一兩回﹐這算不上個事兒。

我的做法是儘量避免使用IDIOM。翻譯的目的是溝通﹐不是作文比賽﹐沒必要堆砌辭藻﹐這樣就有助于避免你提出的問題。

什麼叫陳詞濫調﹖有的很新的詞﹐很快就變成了陳詞濫調﹐比如
touch base, on the same page等等。

什麼叫陳詞濫調﹖我的這個帖子里就有幾個﹐比如“未嘗不可”﹐比如“實踐”。


[Edited at 2007-09-24 17:47]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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旧瓶装新酒 Sep 24, 2007

Cliché 对我而言,就是人云亦云的老套陈词,继续套下去就成了滥调,或者换句话说,就是了无新意。

不过,语言这东西不能没有旧的表达套式,我们所说的每句话、每个词几乎都是旧的套式,否则没有人听得懂我们在说什么。重点是,用词造句要恰当表达自己的意思,不是堆砌别人创造的旧词语;即使老生常谈,引用得恰当,表达自己确实想表达的意义,那么就是被人验出天下文章一大抄的 DNA 也还是自己的创作。

翻译还会有新东西吗?不过旧瓶装新酒而已,有时候你还会猛然发掘,原来酒精只是同样的那个化学式!


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Jason Ma  Identity Verified
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steve, chance, uncle Pk, 文哲, jyuan,Tingting Sep 25, 2007

我在此一并向你们表示感谢。什么是Cliché还真难简单的去界定。

Where there is road, there is Toyota 就应该算是jyuan_us所说的**很現代的題材中加入一些30年前的陳詞濫調**。 不止30年吧?


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xxxlingua franc
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一个词儿/表达用多了就是Cliché Sep 25, 2007

比如:双赢、加大力度、与国际接轨……

"很現代的題材中加入一些30年前的陳詞濫調"我觉得更多是调侃。


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Shouguang Cao
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cliche 的fans 的节日马上就要到来了。 Sep 25, 2007

某种起源于西方,发迹于东方的神秘宗教就要开大会了,大会上的讲话80
%的用词都是cliche。


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xxxlingua franc
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最近经常看到的一个Cliché Sep 30, 2007

turning a new page

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