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Thread poster: LoyalTrans

LoyalTrans
Local time: 10:04
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Nov 5, 2007

http://finance.eastday.com/m/20071103/u1a3205864.html

搞不懂这些官方统计数字为什么总是要远低于实际情况??

上海5000多就能算白领?哈哈

估计香港的“白领”才能在上海过过日子。。


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xxxwonita
China
Local time: 23:04
算的是正式工资 Nov 5, 2007

Robert Cai wrote:

http://finance.eastday.com/m/20071103/u1a3205864.html

搞不懂这些官方统计数字为什么总是要远低于实际情况??

上海5000多就能算白领?哈哈

估计香港的“白领”才能在上海过过日子。。



能摆到桌面上的收入就是这么多。其它来路不明的收入未算在内。

[Edited at 2007-11-05 16:57]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
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白領何指? Nov 5, 2007

白領是指非體力勞動者嗎?包括那些工種、職位。在香港似乎是泛指在寫字樓(OFFICE 辦公室)或打洋行工的人。不知道在中國的定義是什麼。

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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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白領藍領之分本身就是對藍領的歧視 Nov 5, 2007

pkchan wrote:

白領是指非體力勞動者嗎?包括那些工種、職位。在香港似乎是泛指在寫字樓(OFFICE 辦公室)或打洋行工的人。不知道在中國的定義是什麼。


在英語環境里早就不用這兩個詞了﹐沒想到這些倒成了劃分階層的官方用語。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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脑力劳动 vs. 体力劳动 Nov 5, 2007

"万般皆下品 唯有读书高" 这种意识是否已过时? 我看实际上并不符合 中国当前的情况 ... 据 pk 引述的那篇文章, 孵小鸡不一样获得多桶金嘛

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker



White-collar worker is an idiom referring to a salaried professional or a person whose job is clerical in nature, as opposed to a blue-collar worker whose job is more in line with manual labor. White-collar work is an informal term as there is no accepted enumeration of white-collar jobs to the extent that it is typically defined as any job that is not blue-collar.

History

Origin of the Term
The term 'white-collar' derives from the clerical collar of a priest's clothing. Prior to the rise of separate professional and mercantile classes, priests not only performed ecclesiastical duties, but also served as physicians, lawyers, scribes, and accountants: often, they were the only literate members of a society in which others could not read or write.

Demographics
The proportion of white collar workers steadily increased from 17% of employees in 1900 to 59.4% of employees having white-collar jobs in 1998. This is likely due to the recent technological revolution, and changes in the economic structure of the United States.

Formerly a minority in the agrarian and early industrial societies, they have become a majority in industrialized countries. The recent technological revolution has created disproportionately more desk jobs, and lessened the number of employees doing manual work in factories. Generally, the pay rate is higher among white-collar workers, although many of the "white-collar" workers are not necessarily upper-middle class or of privilege as the term once implied. For example, many jobs in the ever growing service sector have a high dress code despite their low pay, whereas ironically, many skilled manual trades-people earn comfortable middle-class salaries, although the jobs may be increasingly scarce.

Also, an increasing number of companies do not have any blue-collar workers because they do not physically manufacture anything within their home country, but instead have an entire hierarchy of white-collar desk workers who mostly dress the same.[citation needed] In this type of corporate environment, the ranking is less signified by the clothing, but may be strikingly apparent by the quality of the work space, the responsibilities delegated, the privileges granted, and by the salary itself.

In recent times workers have had varying degrees of latitude about their choice of dress. Dress codes can range from relaxed - with employees allowed to wear jeans and street clothes — up to traditional office attire. Many companies today operate in a business casual environment — where employees are required to wear dress pants (business trousers) or skirts and a shirt with a collar. Because of this, not all what would be called white-collar workers in fact wear the traditional white shirt and tie.

As an example of workspace contrast, the higher ranking executives may have large corner offices with impressive views and expensive furnishings, where the lesser ranked desk clerks may share small, windowless cubicles with plain utilitarian furniture. As an example of the differing responsibilities, the higher ranked worker will usually have a more broad and fundamental responsibility in the company whereas the subordinates will be delegated more specific, and limited tasks. The cases of differing privilege and salary speak for themselves.

At some companies, the "white-collar employees" also on occasion perform "blue-collar" tasks (or vice versa), and even change their clothing to perform the distinctive roles, i.e., dressing up or dressing down as the case requires. This is common in the food service industry. An example would be a manager at a restaurant who may wear more formal clothing than lower-ranked employees, yet still sometimes assist with cooking food or taking customers' orders. Employees of event-catering companies often wear formal clothing when serving food.

As salaried employees, white-collar workers are sometimes members of white-collar labor unions and they can resort to strike action to settle grievances with their employers, when collective bargaining fails. This is far more the case in Europe than in the United States, where less than 10 percent of all private sector employees are union members. White-collar workers have a reputation for being skeptical or opposed to unions, and tend to see their advancement in work as tied to their reaching corporate goals rather than in union membership.

The American sociologist C. Wright Mills conducted a major study of the white-collar workers in White Collar-The American Middle Class (1951). He claimed that alienation among the white-collar workers was high, because they were not only selling their time but also had to sell their personality with a "smile on their faces", referring to insurance sales people like his own father.



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pkchan  Identity Verified
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看不起就是歧視 Nov 5, 2007

有錢的人看不起無錢的人,無錢的人看不起更加無錢的人。白領看不起藍學、灰領,不是說這是合理,世界各地如此。法制不強的可以公開歧視,法制強的卻在心裡說,亦是一樣,看透了。

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wherestip  Identity Verified
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I agree Nov 5, 2007

pkchan wrote:

有錢的人看不起無錢的人,無錢的人看不起更加無錢的人。白領看不起藍學、灰領,不是說這是合理,世界各地如此。法制不強的可以公開歧視,法制強的卻在心裡說,亦是一樣,看透了。


The widening disparity between the haves and the have-nots is becoming a worldwide phenomenon - the world definitely is flat


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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贫富不均 Nov 5, 2007

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-08-16-income-disparity_x.htm

我猜中国因人多, 大概问题更突出.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
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Red and Blue States Nov 5, 2007



And most of the "red states" - read poor - voted for Bush. Go figure.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

Note that Travis County (Austin, TX) voted for John Kerry in the 2004 election, unlike the rest of Texas.



[Edited at 2007-11-05 22:29]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Lives of the New Rich Nov 5, 2007

A semi-interesting read to learn how the rich lives ...

http://www.amazon.com/Richistan-Journey-Through-American-Wealth/dp/0307339262/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-1483962-5396903?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194299075&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0307339262/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt/102-1483962-5396903?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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香港人對貧富不均的看法 Nov 5, 2007

有錢的人當然是有地位,在社會的高層。但是,香港人的仇富心理並不強,只要他們的錢是從正當途徑賺得來的,便是他們的本事。有錢人也樂於做善事,捐錢辦學、慈善事業,很少是為富不仁的,亦大多是節儉持家,多少受儒家思想影響。這當然不能是一概而論, 但大體上是這樣。

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wherestip  Identity Verified
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This article was just now featured on Yahoo News Nov 6, 2007

America's Wealth Spectrum

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/103815/Where-Do-You-Stand-on-America's-Wealth-Spectrum


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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The world is an M or just flat? Nov 6, 2007



A reader wrote:

I Live in Richistan, June 26, 2007
By Jon Hunt (Old Greenwich, Ct. USA) - See all my reviews

Greenwich, Connecticut, a town featured in Robert Frank's great new book, "Richistan", is my hometown and a place where I have spent my entire life. As the author points out, Greenwich used to be known as a place of old money but the new money that has flown into town over the past decade or so makes it a spot of even more enormous wealth, capturing all levels of the super-rich as Frank describes. As in many cities in America the new money is most evident in the McMansions that have sprung up. (as some people call it, "Vulgaria") I wonder if every new McMansion has to have Greek-like columns.


Frank does a comprehensive job in explaining how the rich live, but it is of note that so many Richistanis, when asked if they have enough money, say "no". If you have $20 million you think you need $40 million. He offers another excellent chapter on how many of the rich aren't any happier with all their money, with many of them being more miserable.
But his best point is that the super-rich have created a class unto themselves, and towns like Greenwich, which has a sustainable middle class, will itself, in the future, become even more separated between rich and poor. It's a sobering look. I highly recommend "Richistan".... it's a terrific exposé and an eye-opener as well.


This reminds me of the book "Envy: A Theory of Society" by Helmut Schoeck. No matter you compare upwards or downwards, there is no end of richness and poverty. The classes in Richistan could be more strictly separated than among the poor while the poor help them separate the classes distinctly. It isn't real gains or losses that create envy but social vincinities, says Helmut Schoeck. People take it as a matter of course if the rich is far apart from them --- when they are aware that they just don't belong. But they wouldn't take it easy if one of their neighbors parks a new Mercedes Benz in front of his garage.

Is there a distinct borderline between haves and have-nots? So that the world becomes an M and the middle class just disappears? Or?


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LoyalTrans
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TOPIC STARTER
Let's face it Nov 6, 2007

The "blue collars" are indeed making much less than "white collars" in China nowadays. Whether there is discrimination or not, this is the reality. Or, even there is discrimination, it is so prevalent that people don't even feel it. Three types of people are making big money in China now (in asending order): senior executives in FIE, successful entrepreneurs, corrupted high-rank government officials (who often go hand in hand with successful entrepreneurs).

Here is the "unofficial" version salary range for different classes in China (which I have seen somewhere):

"blue collar": below 100k/year
"Petit white collar": 100k-300k/year
"white collar": 300k-500k/year
"golden collar": 500k plus

Currency unit: RMB

[Edited at 2007-11-06 01:14]

[Edited at 2007-11-06 01:22]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
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the middle class Nov 6, 2007

wherestip wrote:

America's Wealth Spectrum

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/103815/Where-Do-You-Stand-on-America's-Wealth-Spectrum



Wenjer,

The above article is pretty much a condensed version of the book "Richistan", except written with more humor.

IMO income level distribution would most likely remain a bell curve for the foreseeable future. The middle class is being squeezed, but not obliterated

If and when the distribution does becomes an M-shaped curve, God forbid, you might be looking at many a people going on motorcycle trips and keeping diaries.



[Edited at 2007-11-06 13:50]


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