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Thread poster: chance (X)
wherestip
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帽子 Mar 23, 2008

chance wrote:

你这样说,我倒是觉得你在给我扣帽子。



Well, I apologize if I falsely accused you of anything.


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
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Steve, Mar 23, 2008

我已经改了我那贴,我只是想让你明白我的意思。你也可以把引用我的那句话删掉就可以了。

 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
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No, I don't think Steve regards your opinon as labelling. Mar 23, 2008

chance wrote:

你觉得我的发言是扣帽子?
wherestip wrote:
chance wrote:

... 试图以民族问题复杂不给予基本的人权保证,扭转视线,其实属于歧视,并为暴力镇压找借口。


chance,

If I didn't know any better, I would have thought this is the beginning of another Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution.

Sorry, I'm just not interested in any kind of radical causes, extreme left or extreme right.


People like to talk about wisdom, but I have to say that I don't see any wisdom in the way they are trying to solve the conflict. They are making the incident worse. The 12 points of the Chinese intellectuals are perfectly all right for solving the conflict. If they could solve the conflict in accordance with the 12 points, they would show the whole world what kind of wisdom they possess. I'd say, it would worth a Nobel Peace Prize.


 
chica nueva
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Snow Lion Mar 24, 2008

isahuang wrote:

Lesley,

Its known as the Seventeen Point Agreement in the west among people studying Tibet and China. This is a very smart agreement from the perspective of the Chinese government. It met strong resistance from the hardliners within the Chinese government, surprisingly, Mao held the hardliners back and was against any radical steps at that time. There is a book called "The Snow Lion and the Dragon" by Melvin Goldstein.

"A marvelously informative and realistic look at how China and Tibet reached their present impasse and how their differences might yet be peacefully resolved. By providing much crucial background material about this fractious problem, this book becomes essential reading for anyone who cares about Tibet's future."

one book review by Orville Schell, Dean of the Graduate School of Journalism, University of California, Berkeley

[Edited at 2008-03-23 13:45]

[Edited at 2008-03-23 14:07]


Thank you Ting Ting. I saw a picture of a protester with the Snow Lion flag in the newspaper recently. It reminds me of the Maori and Australian Aboriginal flags.

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[Edited at 2008-03-24 00:52]

[Edited at 2008-03-24 03:28]

[Edited at 2008-03-24 03:38]

[Edited at 2008-03-24 05:51]


 
Angus Woo
Angus Woo
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Actually more than that Mar 24, 2008

Libin PhD wrote:

Steve,

I found some information that is related to your quoting. It is about how Dalai Lama and Bandita were selected and officialized as the leaders in Tibet by the then National Government. The Mongolian and Tibetan Commission of the Republic of China is still existent in Taiwan now.


神秘的活佛转世制:青藏高原寻访转世灵童

活佛转世制度是藏传佛教区别于其它佛教流派最明显的特征。它是如何出现的呢?

1252年,忽必烈召见八思巴时,也邀请噶玛噶举高僧噶玛拔希。但噶玛拔希投向了当时的蒙古大汗蒙哥,被蒙哥封为国师,并赐给一顶金边黑帽及一颗金印。1283年,噶玛拔希圆寂。为将本教派既得利益保持下来,他便以佛教意识不灭、生死轮回、“化身再现,乘愿而来”为依据,临终前要求弟子寻找一小孩继承黑帽。

弟子秉承师命,找来一小孩为噶玛拔希的转世灵童,黑帽系活佛转世制度就这样建立起来了。明朝,黑帽系活佛噶玛巴被明永乐皇帝封为明三大法王之首的“大宝法王”。今天,这一活佛转世系统仍在传承。1992年9月27日,拉萨堆隆德庆县楚布寺举行盛大的十六世噶玛巴活佛转世灵童坐床典礼,揭开噶玛噶举黑帽系活佛转世的又一页。

活佛转世制度创立后,藏传佛教各教派为了自己的利益,纷起仿效,相继建立起大大小小数以千计的活佛转世系统。据统计,清朝乾隆年间在理藩院正式注册的大活佛就有148名,到清末增至160名。其中,随着本教派利益的膨胀而建立的两个最大的活佛转世系统是达赖转世系统和班禅转世系统。

达赖活佛转世系统创建于16世纪。清初,五世达赖喇嘛不远千里到北京朝见顺治皇帝,被封为“西天大善自在佛所领天下释教普通瓦赤咖恒喇达赖喇嘛”,达赖喇嘛的称呼从此正式确定下来,并传承至今。现世达赖喇嘛是中华民国中央政府命“免予掣签,特准继任为第十四辈达赖喇嘛”后,于1940年2月22日由国民政府蒙藏委员会委员长吴忠信主持,在布达拉宫正式坐床的。

班禅活佛转世系统出现于1713年,清朝中央政府正式册封班禅为“班禅额尔德尼”(“额尔德尼”,满语,为梵语ratna之变音,旧译“宝师”或“大宝”)。民国时期,九世班禅与十三世达赖失和,班禅出走内地,圆寂于青海,宫保慈丹经扎什伦布寺班禅行辕寻访到后,国民政府代总统李宗仁特令“免予掣签,特准继任为第十世班禅额尔德尼”。1949年8月10日在国民政府蒙藏委员会委员长关吉玉主持下,十世班禅坐床大典在塔尔寺举行。

17世纪格鲁派掌权后,这种活佛转世的办法成为西藏特权阶层争夺利益的手段。为杜绝大活佛转世中的族属传袭之流弊,1793年清朝颁布“钦定藏内善后章程二十九条”时,创建金瓶掣签制度,将其列入“善后章程”第一条;大皇帝为求黄教兴隆,特赐一金瓶,规定今后遇到寻找活佛灵童时,邀集四大护法,将灵童名字及出生年月,用满、汉、藏三种文字写于牙签牌上,放进瓶内,选派有学问的活佛,祈祷七日,然后由众呼图克图会同驻藏大臣在大昭寺释迦佛像前正式认定。

金瓶掣签制度,完善了藏传佛教活佛转世制度。金瓶掣签后,驻藏大臣、寻访灵童负责人要将掣签所得灵童的情况报告中央政府,经中央政府批准后,才能举行坐床典礼。为此,清朝特制两个掣签金瓶,一个用于达赖、班禅转世灵童的认定,现存放于拉萨布达拉宫;另一个用于确认蒙藏大活佛、呼图克图的转世灵童,现存放于北京雍和宫。


wherestip wrote:

lai an wrote:

Apparently there was a treaty between the Chinese Government and Tibet. Do you know anything about it?



Lesley,

No, personally I know nothing about it. At the time of the signing of that treaty I was still an infant living on Long Island

But I found it on the web. Here it is ...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/ziliao/2004-12/16/content_2342421.htm



中央人民政府和西藏地方政府关于和平解放西藏办法的协议
来源:人民网



一九五一年五月二十三日于北京

根据一九五一年五月二十八日《人民日报》刊印





http://www.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/1951AgreementonMeasuresforthePeacefulLiberationofTibet.pdf



[Edited at 2008-03-23 16:09]

Hi Libin and Steve,

The so called reincarnation in fact is just a man-made system. Who would be the next buddha is basically, if not totally, determined by men in power instead of by some mysterious forces. I am sorry to say this, but this is what Tibetan history tells me.

Dalai lama first appeared only about 5 hundred years ago, and Buddhism about 2000 years older. If I remember correctly, once there were two Dalai lamas fighting each other, I mean not verbally. Both claimed that they were the real one. Imagine that.

You would be quite surprised if one tried to read into that history. Apart from peace and spiritual inspiration, this title is about money, political power, military power, erotic love (I can't remember which Dalai), manipulation and treachery. Shakyamuni would definitely turn in his grave if he knew about this.


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:15
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
老说法广的那几个人 Mar 24, 2008

咱不用简称行不?老让人以为是那帮人办的电台,容易误会。

[Edited at 2008-03-24 08:19]


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 02:15
Chinese to English
中世纪教皇制度的腐败 Mar 24, 2008

Angus Woo wrote:

Hi Libin and Steve,

The so called reincarnation in fact is just a man-made system. Who would be the next buddha is basically, if not totally, determined by men in power instead of by some mysterious forces. I am sorry to say this, but this is what Tibetan history tells me.

Dalai lama first appeared only about 5 hundred years ago, and Buddhism about 2000 years older. If I remember correctly, once there were two Dalai lamas fighting each other, I mean not verbally. Both claimed that they were the real one. Imagine that.

You would be quite surprised if one tried to read into that history. Apart from peace and spiritual inspiration, this title is about money, political power, military power, erotic love (I can't remember which Dalai), manipulation and treachery. Shakyamuni would definitely turn in his grave if he knew about this.


http://www.1688.com.au/bbs/hotnet1?catID=83&rootID=29224
两千年教会巡礼:第四篇 中世纪前期教会历史
中世纪教皇制度的腐败


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
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我不太明白你的意思 Mar 24, 2008

你是指在法国的播音员,还是在国内和其它国家的记者?

我的感觉他们经常是politically correct. 和VOA有很大区别,不过我已经很长时间不听VOA,所以这个说法不一定客观,还是以前的印象。

jyuan_us wrote:
咱不用简称行不?老让人以为是那帮人办的电台,容易误会。

[Edited at 2008-03-24 08:19]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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與德國之音相較 Mar 24, 2008

法廣的報導和評論比較politically correct,這是可以感覺到的。我從小收聽NHK, BBC, VOC和莫斯科廣播電台,聽到最後一個都不聽了,只看CNN和DW。自從chance介紹了法廣,我開始聽法廣,發現耳目一新,法國人製作的東西確實比較持平穩重,具有較多的人文考量。

無論如何,多聽聽不同觀點的報導和評論會讓人比較清楚哪些人試圖掩藏哪些事,使用的手法又是如何;從那些�
... See more
法廣的報導和評論比較politically correct,這是可以感覺到的。我從小收聽NHK, BBC, VOC和莫斯科廣播電台,聽到最後一個都不聽了,只看CNN和DW。自從chance介紹了法廣,我開始聽法廣,發現耳目一新,法國人製作的東西確實比較持平穩重,具有較多的人文考量。

無論如何,多聽聽不同觀點的報導和評論會讓人比較清楚哪些人試圖掩藏哪些事,使用的手法又是如何;從那些手法可以看出不同人文素養所表現出來的「智慧」。「智慧」這東西確實不是裝腔作勢可以唬弄的,有就是有,沒有就是沒有;要操弄聽眾情緒,首先會曝露自己的動機。法廣的報導和評論動機出於人文的關懷,所以沒有煽動的表現。

chance wrote:

你是指在法国的播音员,还是在国内和其它国家的记者?

我的感觉他们经常是politically correct. 和VOA有很大区别,不过我已经很长时间不听VOA,所以这个说法不一定客观,还是以前的印象。

jyuan_us wrote:
咱不用简称行不?老让人以为是那帮人办的电台,容易误会。
Collapse


 
isahuang
isahuang
Local time: 09:15
English to Chinese
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刚刚看到这篇文章 Mar 24, 2008

大家注意看最后一段对英国女大臣的着装点评

http://gb.cri.cn/19924/2008/03/24/[email protected]


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
要是那样的点评出现在我们这个论坛 Mar 24, 2008

就是大逆不道了,不但个人攻击,还有损国家领导人的形象

isahuang wrote:

大家注意看最后一段对英国女大臣的着装点评

http://gb.cri.cn/19924/2008/03/24/[email protected]


 
jyuan_us
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Local time: 09:15
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
法广听起来像什么功夫办的电台 Mar 24, 2008

chance wrote:

你是指在法国的播音员,还是在国内和其它国家的记者?

我的感觉他们经常是politically correct. 和VOA有很大区别,不过我已经很长时间不听VOA,所以这个说法不一定客观,还是以前的印象。

jyuan_us wrote:
咱不用简称行不?老让人以为是那帮人办的电台,容易误会。

[Edited at 2008-03-24 08:19]


SORRY,那个关键词不允许出现在这里。要是引起讨论就更政治了会不得了,所以那个词不能出现。O, MY。


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
没有啦,你看看现在对西藏的报导 Mar 24, 2008

除了综合别人的信息,几乎没有任何评论。也许你以前听到读到那类的采访,那是专题节目。我们这里有各种不同的专题节目,采访的范围也很广,大部分比较温和,这与多年来希拉克政府与中国的友好政策有关,法广是官办的。但是如果有法国报刊刊登的对法国政府批评文章,他们也还是会报导的。
jyuan_us wrote:

SORRY,那个关键词不允许出现在这里。要是引起讨论就更政治了会不得了,所以那个词不能出现。O, MY。


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:15
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
不是啦,我WAS开玩笑 Mar 24, 2008

chance wrote:

除了综合别人的信息,几乎没有任何评论。也许你以前听到读到那类的采访,那是专题节目。我们这里有各种不同的专题节目,采访的范围也很广,大部分比较温和,这与多年来希拉克政府与中国的友好政策有关,法广是官办的。但是如果有法国报刊刊登的对法国政府批评文章,他们也还是会报导的。
jyuan_us wrote:

SORRY,那个关键词不允许出现在这里。要是引起讨论就更政治了会不得了,所以那个词不能出现。O, MY。


我的意思是不看你的内容,也不知到你是faguo来的,很难把法广理解为法国广播公司,还以为是O功什么的办的电台呢。

[Edited at 2008-03-24 16:51]


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
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+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
不好意思,我反应太迟钝 Mar 24, 2008

多谢指出,以后我改用全称:法国国际广播中文台。

jyuan_us wrote:

我的意思是不看你的内容,也不知到你是发过来的,很难把法广理解为法国广播公司,还以为是O功什么的办的电台呢。


 
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