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MemoQ or DVX2?
Thread poster: simon tanner

simon tanner  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 19:20
Member (2007)
Italian to English
+ ...
Mar 27, 2012

Now, I posted pretty much the same query a year back:
http://www.proz.com/forum/déjà_vu_support/196490-number_of_tm_restrictions_in_dvx.html

Since then, of course, MemoQ 5 has come out (which I am very happy with, as far as it goes), and so has DVX2 (which I am currently trying out).

Of course, what it all boils down to (and especially with an attractive TGB in progress), is this: is the new DVX2 the best out there or not? No offence to Trados lovers, but I find Studio complex (and unnecesarily so), and the UI cluttered. (Anyway, I've already got it, so don't really need to decide whether to buy it or noticon_wink.gif).

On the surface (and I've only really just started to fiddle around with DejaVu), MQ and DVX seem similar, interface-wise, but how about in terms of performance?

Does deep mining and ready-to-use autowrite make the crucial difference or not? Should I be snapping up this bargain, or should I sit tight and wait for Kilgray/MemoQ to get round to introducing some kind of deep-mining solution themselves?

Have seasoned DVX users seen a significant increase in productivity with these new features?

Thanks for any advice!


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:20
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Winning horse Mar 27, 2012

I have never used Atril's products, but I can remember that while memoQ was experiencing an exponential progress, DVX user fora were filled with comments about slow development, slow support, etc.

To me the question is what provider will offer faster support and faster development in the years to come. That will be crucial in the decision between memoQ and other suppliers, and to me the decision is clear: Kilgray is posed to become the winner.


 

Epameinondas Soufleros  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 20:20
Member (2008)
English to Greek
+ ...
Wait for memoQ 6.0 to come out Mar 27, 2012

I would like to suggest that you wait until memoQ 6.0 comes out, which will be refactored and will, hopefully, fix many problems that are present in version 5.0 (the most troubled version so far, in my opinion).

 

Bernard Lieber  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:20
English to French
+ ...
Fluency Mar 27, 2012

Give Fluency a try.

Disclaimer: Not involved in anyway with them but download a trial version and see for yourself


 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Don't know Kilgray's support Mar 27, 2012

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I have never used Atril's products, but I can remember that while memoQ was experiencing an exponential progress, DVX user fora were filled with comments about slow development, slow support, etc.

To me the question is what provider will offer faster support and faster development in the years to come. That will be crucial in the decision between memoQ and other suppliers, and to me the decision is clear: Kilgray is posed to become the winner.


I can only judge Atril's support which is outrageous in my opinion. You never get any reply in my experience before two days, and possibly only after having sent a reminder. The worst was when they finally deigned to reply just to ask: And which is the situation now? (sic!)

A freelancer that intends to use their program just cannot wait 48 or 72 hours until they finally answer and put on ice in the meantime the translation he/she is working on.

As I said, I cannot speak about MemoQ, and as far as I was able to use DVX2 (very little), I liked it, but in my opinion, as you say, customer service is what really will make the difference in the future. Maybe I should have bought MemoQ instead, if I only knew this. Wordfast, which costs much less, uses to answer nearly immediately (during office time, of course).


 

Herbert Eppel  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:20
German to English
+ ...
Autowrite is awesome Mar 28, 2012

simon tanner wrote:
Does deep mining and ready-to-use autowrite make the crucial difference or not?
...
Have seasoned DVX users seen a significant increase in productivity with these new features?

I've been using DV for almost 15 years (does this put me in the seasoned category?icon_smile.gif), and I can tell you that the new Autowrite function is awesome. Have you tried it yet?


 

Herbert Eppel  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:20
German to English
+ ...
The DVX user group provides 99% of the support you'll ever need Mar 28, 2012

Christel Zipfel wrote:
I can only judge Atril's support which is outrageous in my opinion.

Really? What sort of issues do you report to support? Are these actual problems, or matters that could easily (and quite often within minutes) be resolved by posting a message in the user group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/ ?
The excellent DVX user group provides 99% of the support you'll ever need.


 

simon tanner  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 19:20
Member (2007)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Mar 28, 2012

appreciate the advice, everyone. MemoQ tends to produce satisfied customers it seems, and that is in one sense recommendation enough. As I said, I am happy with MemoQ, as far as it goes. But I would like to see it go further. If it had automatic fuzzy term recognition, autowrite and the equivalent of deep mining (although I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how effective this actually is), I'd consider it pretty much perfect.

No one seems to be plugging DVX as much as I expected, except Herbert. I thought there would be posts telling me that DVX is MemoQ on steroids, but so far...

Yes, Herbert, the autowrite feature on DVX2 is very impressive indeed, and the fact that it is up and running from the start, unlike Trados, is a big plus.

Seeing as you are a seasonedicon_wink.gif) user, could you share your thoughts on deep mining too?


 

Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 20:20
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Why one or the other? Mar 28, 2012

There is no super CAT tool combining all the best features of MemoQ and DVX2 (and Studio, yes Studio).

I have been using DVX and now DVX2 for almost 10 years. I also have experience with MemoQ (following it since version 2) and Trados Studio 2009.

In DVX2, AutoWrite is the visible part but it is powered by DeepMiner. It carries out a detailed search in the TMs and provides translations based on Subject+Client metadata.

Studio has a similar feature but it is static, you create AutoSuggest dictionaries but they are not automatically updated when you are working on the project.

I prefer DVX2 mostly because of SQL filters & commands and the single project file (view). And of course the AutoSearch results which are displayed based on Subject (domain in MemoQ) and Client relations.

And you don't need to learn all those SQL commands, there are plenty of commands and filters shared by DVX users at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/

You can easily save them in DVX2. They are also good for QA, you can run several SQL filters in one go for batch QA validation.

So there are reasons to use DVX2 (at least in large projects with several files) even for MemoQ users.




[Edited at 2012-03-28 05:40 GMT]


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:20
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
That is not the question Mar 28, 2012

Herbert Eppel wrote:
Christel Zipfel wrote:
I can only judge Atril's support which is outrageous in my opinion.

Really? What sort of issues do you report to support? Are these actual problems, or matters that could easily (and quite often within minutes) be resolved by posting a message in the user group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/ ?
The excellent DVX user group provides 99% of the support you'll ever need.

I am sure users do their best to help their colleagues, but that does not excuse the fact that Atril's support is allegedly very slow indeed. You cannot rely on a company that has to rely on their users for their support. Your statement proves that something is going wrong with their support.

On the other hand, I have to say that I am very pleased with Kilgray's support. Questions always get a reply within hours and urgent matters are acted upon into immediately. In the 30 months we have been using memoQ in the office, we have been stopped by memoQ only twice, for a couple of hours each time, and as far as I can remember for licensing confusions in both cases.


 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
That's what I did, finally Mar 28, 2012

Herbert Eppel wrote:

Are these actual problems, or matters that could easily (and quite often within minutes) be resolved by posting a message in the user group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/ ?
The excellent DVX user group provides 99% of the support you'll ever need.


Not via Yahoo, but here on ProZ.

I don't know whether my problem was simple (maybe not). I had tried DVX before, that's why I bought DVX2, but then I was not able to import my big mama TM from Wordfast. Previously, I had worked on a new TM, so I didn't have these problems. I finally managed, but after several weeks, trying agan and again now and then; of course, in the meantime I continued to work with Wf and one is not always sort of keen to solve software problems when he/she is supposed to work instead. I now still have to import all my other smaller TMs but must say, I have lost my initial vim and never touched DVX2 again...

As Tomás says, the users are certainly of great help to others, but should not substitute the company's own support.

BTW, Atril states in their Webinars, and probably also on their website, that they have an "excellent" customer service. As for me, I don't think so and am quite disappointed.


 

simon tanner  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 19:20
Member (2007)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
But to get back to my main query... Mar 28, 2012

Absolutely agree with Tomás

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I have to say that I am very pleased with Kilgray's support. Questions always get a reply within hours and urgent matters are acted upon into immediately.


Kilgray's support is exemplary, and I have no complaints at all; quite the contrary.

But to get back to my main query: is deep mining so spectacularly good that it makes the program a worthwhile buy for MemoQ users (despite support shortcomings)? Does anyone know if Kilgray have something similar in the pipeline?


 

Cristóbal del Río Faura  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:20
English to Spanish
+ ...
Deep Miner Mar 28, 2012

I can say that Deep Miner is good to spectacular, i.e. from providing some useful leverage or automatically repairing fuzzy matches, to building whole and perfect or nearly perfect sentences. This is at the cost of some reduction in speed, especially when working with big TMs, but anyway.

As for support, yes, I have heard that currently it is not so good as it was in the past. Personally I have never had any problems that could not be solved with the on-screen help or the user manual, so I cannot judge.

I have been using DV for more than 10 years, from DV3 to DVX2. Over this period, I have paid only 3 times - DV3, upgrade to DVX and upgrade to DVX2. All intermediate updates were free. I think this is also a good point to take into consideration. Also, you can choose either a soft license or a USB dongle.


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:20
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
To Deep Mine or not to Deep Mine, that is the question. Mar 28, 2012

Hi Simon,

You might already have seen it, but Victor Dewsbery has written a very informative article called 'Deep mining with Déjà Vu X2' (about exactly what it is and does) here: http://language-mystery.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/deep-mining-with-deja-vu-x2.html

'At least in this example, DeepMiner offers solutions which go beyond the conventional assembly and pretranslation routines in the previous version of DVX. In my experience, it is still a matter of trial and error - sometimes it finds surprisingly good suggestions, but sometimes it is not really helpful. (...) Thankfully, it is easy to switch the DeepMiner function on or off.'

Are there any DVX2 users here that are actively using DeepMiner & AutoWrite? There seem to be surprisingly little reports from actual user about Atril's new silver bullet... I'm curious if I am missing anything (as a happy memoQ user).

Michael


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:20
French to Polish
+ ...
Need for speed... Mar 28, 2012

simon tanner wrote:

Absolutely agree with Tomás

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I have to say that I am very pleased with Kilgray's support. Questions always get a reply within hours and urgent matters are acted upon into immediately.


Kilgray's support is exemplary, and I have no complaints at all; quite the contrary.

But to get back to my main query: is deep mining so spectacularly good that it makes the program a worthwhile buy for MemoQ users (despite support shortcomings)?


The pretranslation with DeepMiner is not necessarily meaningful but the AutoWrite (based also on the DM engine) is a real booster.
I just finished an emergency project, almost 20000 words (practically no repetitions and no direct TM hits), in approx. 22 effective hours, including the final formatting of the messy OCR file provided by the customer.
Of course, I had a big set of translation memories (crucial for DM), well tuned terminology data bases and I used also heavily the pretranslation in the background (unlike in memoQ which doesn't permit multiple instances, it's possible to open the same project twice and perform some time consuming batch tasks) but the input method provided by AutoWrite is simply a killah.

Does anyone know if Kilgray have something similar in the pipeline?


I dunno but memoQ visibly lacks a feature like AutoSuggest or AutoWrite.
I would not be amazed if the Kilgray guys would prepare something in order to palliate this lack.

Cheers
GG


 
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