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Is there a way to autopropagate to confirmed segments?
Thread poster: Pavel Tsvetkov

Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 06:38
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English to Bulgarian
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Aug 3, 2013

Dear All,

I have the following question:

When I finish a translation and start reading it again from segment 1 to edit it, it seems that if the first of a multiple identical segments is changed, the change is not autopropagated to the rest of the identical segments, although autopropagate is switched on.

This is a problem, because inconsistencies are thus created.

Is there a solution for this problem?

Kind Regards,
PTs


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Srini Venkataraman
United States
Local time: 22:38
Member (2012)
Tamil to English
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WF Pro Aug 3, 2013

I have the same problem in WF Pro 3.1.5 in too. On revision run, if I make some changes, it is not reflected down the doc, requiring manual correction. How do I ensure consistency?

Edited:
Just saw the youtube video of Yasmin
http://youtu.be/ivKU8fH7w4g?hd=1

understood the problem( check auto-propagation). So much time will be saved. Thanks



[Edited at 2013-08-03 15:15 GMT]


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
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English to Turkish
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try SQL Aug 3, 2013

Hi Pavel
I think you can. find duplicate segments and change segment status to fuzzy except for the first instance. It should be easy with SQL commands. Then switch to duplicate segments view but first instances this time with an SQL filter and reconfirm these segments to autopropagate. Away from computer so please ask in yahoo group if you need help with SQL.

Selcuk


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
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. Aug 9, 2013

Thank you, Selcuk,

I will certainly take a look. That said, I would like to also see the feature being included as standard in this or future versions of Deja vu X, so that translators can stay translators and programmers can stay programmers


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VIP9N
Local time: 06:38
Russian to English
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Yes, there is one: tricky, but simple Sep 20, 2013

Pavel Tsvetkov wrote:
...I would like to also see the feature being included as standard in this or future versions of Deja vu X, so that translators can stay translators and programmers can stay programmers


First, I am not a programmer, me too, but a translator; the words SQL or script, or any words of this kind mean nothing for me.

Second, I use mainly Memo, just took Deja to see and try a little. Generally, there are some good points in it, but to my opinion it is much inferior to Memo.

Third, from the very beginning I needed the fuction you mentioned and detected it had not.

The way I used (and use) is the following:

For overwriting rows in Deja:

1. Export external view with rows status.

Note the following (from their manual): match Types

Normal = 0
Exact = 1
Fuzzy = 2
Assembled = 4
Propagated = 8
AutoPropagated = 16

2. Select cells in Status column only

3. Replace 0 or 1 with 2 or 4, with Word Find and Replace in Selection

4. Import it back

5. Pretranslate them as you wish with anything you wish. They shall be overwritten in any case.

Voila



[Edited at 2013-09-20 09:02 GMT]


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
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Thank you! Sep 25, 2013

Dear VIP9N,

Thank you for your suggestion – that is a perfect solution for one of the major drawbacks of Deja vu!

Kind Regards,
Pavel Tsvetkov


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VIP9N
Local time: 06:38
Russian to English
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Another Major Drawback Sep 26, 2013

Yes Pavel, it is not the only one drawback. There is the other one I found and I searched in vain in Russian, English and French speaking forums to resolve that one.

The matter is the following: I tried to translate Les Status de la société Lafarge from French into Russian. When I imported it into the old Deja (X), it showed apparently less segments than Memo did. Well, I didn't pay much attention to that connecting the matter with another way of segmenting in Deja. When the work was done about 80-85%, suddenly, I realized that some sentences were not shown (!). Its logic is that if segments are the same - there is no need to show them Apparently, the thought that a translator is not a programmer and may need to translate the subsequent similar sentences in another way had not come in Deja programmers' mind.

Upon some experiments with the same doc in a new Deja (X2), I found out, that the new Deja showed them all, like Memo.

I tried many tricks trying the old Deja to show ALL sentences, but I found that was impossible. Well, have you seen such thing? Did it bother you and, by the way, do you know the way to overcome it in old DejaX?

Kind regards,

Victor


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
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row selector Sep 26, 2013

VIP9N wrote:

I tried many tricks trying the old Deja to show ALL sentences, but I found that was impossible. Well, have you seen such thing? Did it bother you and, by the way, do you know the way to overcome it in old DejaX?



No tricks needed, make sure that "all segments" is selected in segment selector box (it is called segment selector in DVX2).

Also make sure that you are working in the project view, displaying all segments from all files in the project.


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VIP9N
Local time: 06:38
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Certainly I did so. Sep 26, 2013

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

... make sure that "all segments" is selected in segment selector box ...


Thank you Selcuk, but of course I did it all. Tried any combinations of views. Besides, when you import a file, the default view is Show All, isn't it? Well, it works in all CATs, except DejaX (I tried version 7.5.342). You can try it yourself and see I don't lie

The logic of old DejaX might be funny, but when I did circa 85% of translation... it was not for me, really.


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:38
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7.5.342 ? Sep 26, 2013

VIP9N wrote:

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

... make sure that "all segments" is selected in segment selector box ...


Thank you Selcuk, but of course I did it all. Tried any combinations of views. Besides, when you import a file, the default view is Show All, isn't it? Well, it works in all CATs, except DejaX (I tried version 7.5.342). You can try it yourself and see I don't lie

The logic of old DejaX might be funny, but when I did circa 85% of translation... it was not for me, really.



Latest DVX(1) build is 7.5.338. I have never heard about build 342 (and I was a beta tester of DVX1).

Default view is "All segments" in row selector and Project View. I use DVX2 but never experienced such a problem in DVX1. Please upgrade to the latest DVX1 build 338 and try again.

Selcuk


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VIP9N
Local time: 06:38
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342 was after 338 Sep 26, 2013

Selcuk, I know about that. The latest official was 338. But upon I had met the problem, I searched many forums and got there the link to version 342 (from Atril site). Thinking that will solve the problem, I downloaded and installed it. Tried. The same result - no similar segments are shown after import. And of course, after the final export I've got all of the original text, with no losses. The imported file was in Excel, by the way. Could it be, somehow, Excel to blame?

About trying again: why? I tried enough and only the new Deja (X2) did the job with the same file. That was the reason I asked here whether someone had such experience.

I know you are the expert in Deja and you have been working in it for many years. And hope you might have enough time & curiosity to try it yourself, if you had not yet. Maybe and some day.

My way of changing status of rows for overwriting them without any SQL commands only confirms that sometimes newbies can see the things, which are not so obvious for old experts. But that does not make the experience of old professionals less valuable, right?

Victor

[Edited at 2013-09-26 14:04 GMT]


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:38
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English to Turkish
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row status codes Sep 26, 2013

Using External View RTF to change status codes is a complicated, tricky solution.

1 = exact match
257 = exact & finished
513 = exact & locked
2049 = exact & do not send
65537 = exact & multiple matches
65793 = exact, finished & multiple matches
16777473 = exact, finished, wrong codes
16779777 = exact, locked, do not send, wrong codes

There are several other combinations even for exact matches (not mentioning fuzzy, assembled, fuzzy propagated, machine translated matches)

Some years ago I uploaded a file displaying Row Status Codes, Icons and Colours to the files section of Yahoo group but it seems that that file is deleted by the moderator.

I used to have both DVX and DVX2 installed on my machine for a while but it caused some problems. Now I have only DVX2 and therefore cannot test it with DVX1. I don't 'remember' that problem (bug) in DVX1, but if there is any, it may be related to Office version or file type (e.g. xls, xlsx).

So it may be a bug in DVX1 if all segments are not displayed although
All segments (rows) are selected in Segment/Row Selector box
You are in Project View, and
Filter on Source/Target Selection is not used.


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Lucia Messuti  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:38
Member (2003)
English to Italian
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DVX2 - Propagating and overwriting a segment Oct 3, 2013

I found DVX2 last year and I think it is really the best CAT for translators, compared to other major CATs I've used.
Now, I don't find a feature for propagating and overwriting finished segments.

After completing my translation (autopropagate function on) and start it again to read and edit it.
I know there are identical segments though the document;
then I change a segment and it should make all following identical segments to be amended, although they had been confirmed (CTRL+DownArrow) when I translated them at the first step.
Instead, they don't change and I've to change them one by one. I think the system should also change a previous segment: for instance, if I leave a segment as is, then proceeding in the document I find an identical segment that I change: the previous unchanged/identical segments should be amended accordingly. I think should be a feature which can be implemented or not according to the kind of document.

Thanks for your help!


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:38
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
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Finished status Oct 4, 2013

When you translate and finish a segment, repetitions are autopropagated. You don't need to change segment status of these repetitions to finished. Otherwise they will not be updated if you make changes in the first instance of that segment.

But if you have already "finished" those repetitions but want to make a change and autopropogate, then "filter" on that segment, select all those repetitions and change to "unfinished". Hope it is clear.


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Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 06:38
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English to Bulgarian
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TOPIC STARTER
Confirmed vs Finished Oct 21, 2013

Dear Selcuk,

Thank you for your answers.

In my opinion the problem stems from the difference between confirmed and finished. In Trados when you press control+enter the segment becomes 'confirmed', but if you further edit it, the edits will still be autopropagated to all identical segments, even if they are also 'confirmed'.

In Deja vu x2 the logic is different. Control + Down Arrow makes a segment 'finished', which is obviously a whole different thing. In my opinion this is counter productive, as a translator reads through the autopropagated segments and 'confirms' them, but does not want them 'finished' if that would prevent later autopropagation of an edited first identical segment. And by the way, why only of the first? What if the segment No 23 of a total of 55 identical 'finished' segments is edited? There must be a way to autopopagate the change both up and down.

Atril should introduce the idea of confirmation instead of finishing, and changing a confirmed segment should automatically change all of the autopropagated ones.

Or, if we use Atril's wording, changing a finished segment must autopropagate the change to all identical finished segments, both up and down.

In that line of thought: is there a way to change the segment status from finished to pending, or get rid of the finished status for all segments in a project after the translation is completed, but before the start of the review stage?

Kind Regards,
PTs


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