Hebrew text doesn't appear right
Thread poster: Naftali Guttman

Naftali Guttman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 12:31
Member (2012)
English to Hebrew
May 18, 2014

Downloaded Deja Vu X3 and open a small text project.
In the side by side translation the text is translated and confirmed but the English text appear in the final target (Hebrew) document. When I made bilingual file the text appeared in Hebrew but the English text was in reverse, e.g. LR20 > 02RL.

The other problem is the text didn't align automatically to the right like other CAT tools does (e.g. Trados, memoQ).

When I copy it here: text seems right but the order is wrong (you can see it if you do CTRL+SHIFT).

The system can be found in the following models: A3, A4, Q3, Q5
ניתן למצוא את המערכת בדגמים הבאים: A3, A4, Q3, Q5

The order should be: Q5, Q3, A4, A3
In Trados memoQ I corrected it with a special tag (I heard that it can be done also in WF Pro).
Is there a way to tell Deja Vu to change the fron LTR to RTL and vice versa.

Deja Vu X3 9.0.698
Win 7 Pro 32-bit (hebrew)
Office 2013 (Hebrew)



[Edited at 2014-05-18 15:49 GMT]


 

esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:31
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
Try inserting RTL and LTR marks May 18, 2014

Read more in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-directional_text

 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule

Naftali Guttman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 12:31
Member (2012)
English to Hebrew
TOPIC STARTER
Is there a way to do it from Deja Vu? May 19, 2014

esperantisto wrote:

Read more in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-directional_text


I mean by using a command from Deja Vu without correcting it in Word?
Can I had SQL command that will do it?


 

Victor Dewsbery  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:31
Text recognition in Hebrew May 19, 2014

In theory it should work if you follow the following steps:
1. Define Hebrew as one of the languages when you set up your project.
2. Select a Hebrew font under File>Options>Display>Hebrew (this may be done automatically, but it is worth double-checking). Note that the "Primary" and "Secondary" font for each language is set differently. This enables you to have the reference stuff smaller than the main text you are working on.

I don't work with Hebrew at all, so I can't answer any detailed questions. I have just come back from a wonderful 2 week holiday in Israel and I can recognise most of the Hebrew characters, but apart from a few place names and a vocabulary of about 10 words, I am lost.


 

Naftali Guttman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 12:31
Member (2012)
English to Hebrew
TOPIC STARTER
Didn't do much May 19, 2014

Victor Dewsbery wrote:

In theory it should work if you follow the following steps:
1. Define Hebrew as one of the languages when you set up your project.
2. Select a Hebrew font under File>Options>Display>Hebrew (this may be done automatically, but it is worth double-checking). Note that the "Primary" and "Secondary" font for each language is set differently. This enables you to have the reference stuff smaller than the main text you are working on.

I don't work with Hebrew at all, so I can't answer any detailed questions. I have just come back from a wonderful 2 week holiday in Israel and I can recognise most of the Hebrew characters, but apart from a few place names and a vocabulary of about 10 words, I am lost.


Thank you,

That helped the preview but didn't do much to target file.

The problem that Arabic is totally RTL all the text goes the same way. In Hebrew some of the text goes LTR (e.g. mathematics) the best way to explain the complexity try speaking in German in long Nebensätze can you remember what verbs you should put in the end?


 

Victor Dewsbery  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:31
Mixed directionality in Hebrew May 19, 2014

Yes, I had noticed the mixed directionality in Hebrew - in the middle of a passage of Hebrew with right-to-left text there are numbers in left-to-right format.
There are different possible combinations which can arise when LTR text is inserted into a RTL text flow:
- Simple numbers in western format, i.e. a date (2014, or 19.05.2014) inserted in the middle of an RTL text flow in Hebrew.
- Quoted words in western format (with or without spaces), e.g. if "Microsoft" or "Microsoft Office" in Latin letters is included in the Hebrew text flow.
- Mixtures of letters and numbers, e.g. RL20 (= your example), Windows 8, Office 2013
- Mathematical formulas with a mixture of letters, numbers, spaces and various mathematical symbols.

The example sentence which you quote seems to have a particularly complex structure:

The system can be found in the following models: A3, A4, Q3, Q5
ניתן למצוא את המערכת בדגמים הבאים: A3, A4, Q3, Q5
The order should be: Q5, Q3, A4, A3

Here, the order of elements is only partly reversed. The RTL Hebrew section starts in the middle of the line (in other words, it is at the END of the RTL text flow). The colon symbol (:) comes to the RIGHT of the Hebrew text, and the letter/number symbols (which you want in a different order) come BEFORE the Hebrew text. If the position of the commas is included in the structure, your sentence involves several changes of reading direction, and I can't get my head around the exact scope of the problem.

If you can define exactly which configurations work properly and which combinations create problems, I can pass this on as a question to the developers. I am not a programmer or an Atril employee, but I have used the program for almost 15 years (in LTR languages), and I am one of the beta testers.


 

esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:31
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
Some answers May 19, 2014

naftalig wrote:
Is there a way to do it from Deja Vu?


Frankly, no idea, I’m not an experienced user of Déjà Vu. But you can use programs such as PopChar (this is not to advertise this particular program, there should be other options).

naftalig wrote:

The problem that Arabic is totally RTL all the text goes the same way.


Not really. Arabs often use European numbers/dates that run LTR such as (no idea about the text meaning):

تباينت وجهات نظر ضيوف حلقة السبت 17/5/2014 من برنامج "حديث


 

Naftali Guttman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 12:31
Member (2012)
English to Hebrew
TOPIC STARTER
RE: Mixed directionality in Hebrew May 19, 2014

I know what should be done and did it in Trados and memoQ.

e.g. Q5, Q3, A4, A3 should be done: A3,{RTL mark} A4,{RTL mark}Q3,{RTL mark} etc.
or
Battery: AAA X 2
AAA{RTL mark}X{RTL mark}2

to better understand how it should work I have a video illustrating how to do it in memoQ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prn_G6Bl5T8


 


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