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Off topic: Bayern Munich? Should be Bavaria Munich
Thread poster: Warren EDWARDES

Warren EDWARDES
United Kingdom
Spanish to English
May 18, 2012

Why is Munich's football club, known locally as Bayern München, known in English as Bayern Munich?

In English, the club should be Bavaria Munich.

Here's an earlier post "Travel Tip: Monaco is Italian for Munich" http://goo.gl/MbQ3M


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:41
English to German
+ ...
In English May 18, 2012

Warren EDWARDES wrote:

Why is Munich's football club, known locally as Bayern München, known in English as Bayern Munich?

In English, the club should be Bavaria Munich.




The name should be Bayern München and nothing else. The disrespect of proper and registered names in English-speaking countries is quite annoying. Maybe because they can't find the Umlaut on their keyboards?
No-one in Germany would ever be stupid enough to translate the registered name of e.g. the US basketball team Miami Heat into "Miami Hitze".


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Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:41
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Case for "Bayern Munich" May 18, 2012

Interesting question. I do believe, though, that "Bayern Munich" does make perfect sense if you understand "FC Bayern" as the name of the club and Munich merely as its home town. Which in fact is the case - it was founded as "Fußball-Club Bayern" in Munich (long name "Fußball-Club Bayern, München e.V.").

When it comes to names of football clubs there are quite a few odd things around anyway - such as "Napoli" being a club from Naples and "Roma" a club from Rome. And staying with German clubs, why does the club from Cologne usually stay "FC Köln" while the one from Nuremberg is being translated as "FC Nuremberg"?


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:41
English to German
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Ha! Good point and odd indeed. May 18, 2012

Thomas Pfann wrote:

Interesting question. I do believe, though, that "Bayern Munich" does make perfect sense if you understand "FC Bayern" as the name of the club and Munich merely as its home town. Which in fact is the case - it was founded as "Fußball-Club Bayern" in Munich (long name "Fußball-Club Bayern, München e.V.").

When it comes to names of football clubs there are quite a few odd things around anyway - such as "Napoli" being a club from Naples and "Roma" a club from Rome. And staying with German clubs, why does the club from Cologne usually stay "FC Köln" while the one from Nuremberg is being translated as "FC Nuremberg"?



Translating the names of long-established sports teams is like translating the names of German beer, as their names - just like local sports teams - must refer to their geographical location. By law. How about: "Paulanian Beer" instead of "Paulaner Bier", or Warsteinian or Bitburgian beer?

Just a thought.


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Warren EDWARDES
United Kingdom
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Translating names May 18, 2012

The Spanish translate personal names. Catalans can be Juan or Joan depending on whethr they are speaking Catalan or Castellano.

And Queen Elizabeth is Reina Isabel

"La Reina Isabel II celebra el Jubileo de Diamante junto a reyes y reinas de todo el mundo" http://goo.gl/B6hKR

or even Reina Chabela in Spanish

"REINA CHABELA VACILÓ SU ANIVERSARIO CON ZAPATEO" http://goo.gl/uyH5I

I am sometimes called "Goran". Some people want to know what my name is in Spanish. Luckily there is a certain "Warren Beatty" who does not get translated.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:41
English to German
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In German May 18, 2012

Warren EDWARDES wrote:

In English, the club should be Bavaria Munich.


In return, the Blackburn Rovers should be the Schwarz-Brenn-Vagabunden.

Sounds good?



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Warren EDWARDES
United Kingdom
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Nice May 18, 2012

Nice one Nicole

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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Quite natural in Spanish May 18, 2012

In Spain, Bayern München has always been, is, and probably will be called "(el) Bayern **de** Múnich". Bayern is the team, while München is where it is based. This fits perfectly in the way many Spanish teams are named, for instance "(el) Atlético de Madrid", "(el) Athletic Club de Bilbao", "(el) Sporting de Gijón", "(el) Celta de Vigo", etc. etc.

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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:41
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
For what is worth May 18, 2012

In Italian it is called Bayern di Monaco, and note that Italians normally do not tend to translate nothing, perhaps because German is difficult to pronounce? Or because München is a translated town? So, like Tomàs said, Bayern not translated because it is a name of a team, München translated because it is a town (always translated).

Just another tought


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:41
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
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Not quite - Historical names are customarily adapted... and so is the Bayern May 18, 2012

Nicole Schnell wrote:
The name should be Bayern München and nothing else. The disrespect of proper and registered names in English-speaking countries is quite annoying.

To me the matter is quite clear: people are used to the team's name (whose official name is "Fußball-Club Bayern", with the added legal definition of "München eingetragener Verein") and not the name of the Aktiengesellschaft "FC Bayern München AG".

I think that after well over a century people are entitled to naming the team with adapted names (the same way many other historical names are adapted and nobody complains about that).


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Rafael Mondini Bueno  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:41
English to Portuguese
More or less the same here May 18, 2012

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

In Spain, Bayern München has always been, is, and probably will be called "(el) Bayern **de** Múnich". Bayern is the team, while München is where it is based. This fits perfectly in the way many Spanish teams are named, for instance "(el) Atlético de Madrid", "(el) Athletic Club de Bilbao", "(el) Sporting de Gijón", "(el) Celta de Vigo", etc. etc.



Here in Brazil, it's usually called "Bayern de Munique". Quite curiously, the Glasgow Rangers (Rangers FC) are not called "Os Guardas de Glasgow" or even "os Rangers de Glasgou/Glásgua". Very weird.

[Edited at 2012-05-18 23:12 GMT]


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Warren EDWARDES
United Kingdom
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Manchester United and City May 18, 2012

I can't imagine that Manchester United and Manchester City are translated anywhere.

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David Wright  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 03:41
German to English
+ ...
Blackburn Rovers May 19, 2012

[/quote]
(Nicole Schell:

In return, the Blackburn Rovers should be the Schwarz-Brenn-Vagabunden.

Sounds good?

[/quote]

Actually Nicole, I come from Blackburn, and it should translate as Schwarz BACH, Burn being a word for a stream, and I think Rovers might better translate as Wanderer (and don't get me started on eth scandal currently affecting thze team!)

Why so many English teams seem to derive their names from wandering, roving etc is another ssue!)

Mind you, the theatre group I used be with in klagenfurt did a whole sketch on the translation of places names (Village of the Crumps - Krumpendorf; Much Laughter - Villach and so on. - seemed quite good at the time.

[Edited at 2012-05-19 06:54 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-05-19 06:55 GMT]


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sailingshoes
Local time: 03:41
Spanish to English
Look, people... May 19, 2012

... these names were made by fans, not translators. Give them a break!

I think it might have something to do with the fact that there is (or was) another big Munich team (TSV 1860). So people needed to distinguish them.

I live in Italy and you hear English speakers saying AC Milan and Inter Milan although in Italian it's just Inter and Milan. In fact in English people say 'AC' sometimes for Milan, which is just like saying 'FC'.

In fact maybe an interesting thing to note is how AC Milan isn't AC Milano and Genoa isn't Genova (full name Genoa Cricket and Football Club). Just as Sporting de Gijo'n isn't Deportivo... and Newells' Old Boys? Forget it.

Forza Bayern in any case.


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Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:41
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
On a side note - proper names in general May 19, 2012

Nicole Schnell wrote:
How about: "Paulanian Beer" instead of "Paulaner Bier"?


Were we to translate "Paulaner-Bier" it would probably become something like "Minim's beer".

Personally, I am very much in favour of translating names where it makes sense. My name is Thomas, which exists in many languages and I don't mind at all if people adapt my name to the language we speak. Whether they call me Thomas, Tomás, Tomasz, Tamás or even Tommaso - it's all the same name in different languages. And if you translate the "Hello ... how are you?" part into, say, Polish, then why not the actual name as well? In fact, I find it irritating when people try to pronounce my name "in a German way" when speaking English. What for?

To exaggerate a bit: I would happily make a "Michael Shoemaker" or a "Miguel Zapatero" out of Michael Schumacher. (No worries: of course I don't really do that.)

A lot of meaning gets lost because we don't translate "proper names". Of course, people's or even place names usually don't have anything to do with their original meaning anymore - the F1 driver's family has probably left the shoemaking business many generations ago, and the castles of Neuburg, Neuchâtel, Newcastle and many more towns with the same name are not so new anymore.

But why impose an often unpronounceable and completely meaningless (and thus immemorable) name on someone who doesn't speak the language? To Germans it is pretty obvious what a company with the lovely name of "Deutsche Versicherungsgesellschaft" does - for someone with no grasp of the German language the company's name might just as well be "Asdf ghjklom".


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