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Client has recd. the invoice but not the translation
Thread poster: xxxBrandis
xxxBrandis
Local time: 02:20
English to German
+ ...
Jul 18, 2004

Hello all!

I use Proz mail. As last I had done a small translation for a Client in England. A day later, he had reverted, bragging about having recd. the invoice, but not the translation. It was technically not possible, because I had sent the translation, whereas the last page was my invoice. I was wondering what could possibly have gone wrong. Does it happen to you as well?? Then I had sent him the same file again, and again he came back with the invoice but not the translation !!! Didn´t know where to post it. File was in .doc regular format.
Brandis

[Edited at 2004-07-18 22:12]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:20
English to German
+ ...
Moving the thread... Jul 18, 2004

...to General Technical Issues.

What file format did you send the invoice in? PDF?

Regards, Ralf


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 02:20
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
in word .doc format Jul 18, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

...to General Technical Issues.

What file format did you send the invoice in? PDF?

Regards, Ralf
Hello Ralf!
It was one file one page being translation and the other one being the invoice in regular word .doc format. I thought about it for a long time, but I didn´t see any possibility of anything going wrong. It can´t be that the client receives only the invoice and not the translation.
Gruß
Brandis


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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:20
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
I just sent myself an attachment with the free ProZ e-mail... Jul 18, 2004

Hello,

I'm a ProZ.com moderator.

I have had a free ProZ.com e-mail account for some time, but never bothered to use it. I decided to try it out, just to see what would happen if I sent myself an attachment (to my regular e-mail address), with a 750 kb Word file (multiple pages) attached; it arrived intact.

Have you tried sending the client the file, *and* sending it to yourself at the same time? You might also check the previous messages you sent to your client in the "Sent" section of your account, to see what was in the attachments when you sent that translation. Note: those messages will only appear in the Sent folder if you checked that option before sending, but the attachments do get saved in that folder along with the message.

If you want to experiment further, why don't you contact me via my profile, and I'll send you an e-mail address where you could send the translation. That way, I could see whether or not the whole file arrived.

Yolanda Broad
ProZ.com Moderator


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Giacomo Camaiora  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:20
English to Italian
+ ...
Swapping the positions (or using two separate files) Jul 18, 2004

Why don’t you try swapping the positions of the invoice and translation; I mean, place the invoice in the first page and then write the translation in the next page. You could also fax a copy of the translation to prove that the work has been done on time and that the problem is allocated at technical level; that is, it is not a professional issue.

Once it happened to me that the word file was corrupted and the client unable to read it. To stop any professional trouble, I immediately converted the file to PDF format and sent it to the client; this led the client, and me, to focus our efforts to solve the technical problems without being suspicious of each other. In a short time, we worked out a solution


Giacomo


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 02:20
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I always save a copy of the transmission Jul 18, 2004

Yolanda Broad wrote:

Hello,

I'm a ProZ.com moderator.

I have had a free ProZ.com e-mail account for some time, but never bothered to use it. I decided to try it out, just to see what would happen if I sent myself an attachment (to my regular e-mail address), with a 750 kb Word file (multiple pages) attached; it arrived intact.

Have you tried sending the client the file, *and* sending it to yourself at the same time? You might also check the previous messages you sent to your client in the "Sent" section of your account, to see what was in the attachments when you sent that translation. Note: those messages will only appear in the Sent folder if you checked that option before sending, but the attachments do get saved in that folder along with the message.

If you want to experiment further, why don't you contact me via my profile, and I'll send you an e-mail address where you could send the translation. That way, I could see whether or not the whole file arrived.

Yolanda Broad
ProZ.com Moderator

Hi! yolanda, I always save a copy of the transmission along with the attached files in the sent folder till the invoice is cleared, and delete later. But the client says, both times he had recd. only the invoice and not the translation. For this time, we had to finally adjust it in a way that I send the translation only and not the invoice, since it is already available and it will not be paid ( yet another trouble )as the (Pizza) translation didn´t arrive on schedule. It is not a big job, but the proz.mail had always functioned wonderfully in my case, only this time it is not. I was wondering whether the mistake is on my part or the mail, or even the client for some reason not receiving the translation. But this cannot be, as it was only one file once sent, the last page being the invoice and second time the first page being the invoice. I shall certainly contact you via mail to cross check this issue.
Greets
Brandis


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Roberta Anderson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:20
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
ask the client to forward it back to you Jul 19, 2004

What you describe is very stange: if I understood correctly, you sent a 2-page file, but your client only received 1 page of it?

Maybe the page is there and the client is simply not seeing it...

I'd ask him to use the Forward Mail command, to forward back to you the message and attachment he received, so that you can check what might have gone wrong with the file format.
You can then have a look at the file the client has received and compare it with what you sent.

As a rule, always zip files before emailing them, even if they are small files - the zip format protects the actual file against corruptions along the way as the file goes through the various servers.

HtH,
Roberta


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 03:20
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Zip it Jul 19, 2004

I also do not see any possibility of pages falling off the document,
however, to be on the safe side, send it zipped- then the file either will arrive at your client's end or it will not, any partial delivery is impossible.

Uldis
Brandis wrote:
but I didn´t see any possibility of anything going wrong. It can´t be that the client receives only the invoice and not the translation.
Gruß
Brandis


[Edited at 2004-07-19 07:39]


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 02:20
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Jul 19, 2004

Roberta Anderson wrote:

What you describe is very stange: if I understood correctly, you sent a 2-page file, but your client only received 1 page of it?

Maybe the page is there and the client is simply not seeing it...

I'd ask him to use the Forward Mail command, to forward back to you the message and attachment he received, so that you can check what might have gone wrong with the file format.
You can then have a look at the file the client has received and compare it with what you sent.

As a rule, always zip files before emailing them, even if they are small files - the zip format protects the actual file against corruptions along the way as the file goes through the various servers.

HtH,
Roberta
Hi! Roberta, as per your suggestion I have sent out a notification to the client requesting the file he had recd. Let us see, where the trouble is. I am waiting for his reaction now.
Greets
Brandis


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Eva Blanar  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 02:20
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Roberta is right: you've got to fight Jul 19, 2004

Brandis wrote:

For this time, we had to finally adjust it in a way that I send the translation only and not the invoice, since it is already available and it will not be paid ( yet another trouble )as the (Pizza) translation didn´t arrive on schedule.
Brandis


Please don't give it up so easy: this story sounds too weird. This basically is a "we did not receive it, so we don't pay for it" story - don't let that happen! Somebody has already played that with me, and that one also was a small and very easy job, so I did not fight that time either. But finally, if we let that happen, this might be an excellent way of making money. And, what we let happen to ourselves will happen to other fellow translators as well - perhaps to people who badly need that small amount of money.

So stop thinking about what was wrong with your sending and insist on forwarding back to you the message they received. And if they don't do that or say that the message was already erased, this deserves a Blue Board posting: no serious translation agency erases incoming mail, especially not if it is problematic one.

The zipped version and a CC or BCC to yourself are also useful, but the real thing is to check their reliability. Don't be shy about that.

[Edited at 2004-07-19 10:14]

[Edited at 2004-07-19 10:16]


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:20
German to Spanish
Invoice and work together in a file? Jul 19, 2004

Well, just do like everybody do, send your work and a invoice separated (PDF with password is a good professional option)... or do you count the words in the invoice too?

About your problem, maybe is cause different formatting (invisible)

Regards

Toledo


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 02:20
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
well , Toledo I do not count inv. Jul 19, 2004

Toledo wrote:

Well, just do like everybody do, send your work and a invoice separated (PDF with password is a good professional option)... or do you count the words in the invoice too?

About your problem, maybe is cause different formatting (invisible)

Regards

Toledo
Hello Toledo, never counted the words in the invoice. Original file is read and invoice is generated, translation done and finally inv. attached on the last if not n the first page of the translation. .pdf with a password is that for the invoice or for the translation. May be you are right. Password protection would mean, the client has to revert back for the password. Sounds a bit arrogant though, don´t you think.
Brandis


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Roberta Anderson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:20
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
invoice as PDF - password-protected against changes Jul 19, 2004

Brandis wrote:

May be you are right. Password protection would mean, the client has to revert back for the password. Sounds a bit arrogant though, don´t you think.
Brandis


I think what Toledo means is to password protect the invoice PDF file so as not to allow the contents to be altered in any way, while still allowing it to be opened and printed by the recepient.

This is what I normally do with my invoices too.

Roberta


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 02:20
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
learned something new Jul 19, 2004

Roberta Anderson wrote:

Brandis wrote:

May be you are right. Password protection would mean, the client has to revert back for the password. Sounds a bit arrogant though, don´t you think.
Brandis


I think what Toledo means is to password protect the invoice PDF file so as not to allow the contents to be altered in any way, while still allowing it to be opened and printed by the recepient.

This is what I normally do with my invoices too.

Roberta
Thanks Roberta, this is new to me. My trouble is not the invoice itself. My client has recd. the inv. but not the translation. And through the internet jungle it didn´t reach him ontime, so he chooses to consider this translation as sample.
Brandis


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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 02:20
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Not credible Jul 19, 2004

I fully agree with Eva.

I'm no expert but it's impossible for them to receive only half a document!

Basically they're saying that the file in some way became corrupt and, surprise, surprise, all they've received is the invoice but not the work so they're not paying.
"Selective file corruption"? Come on.

I simply don't believe it and would forget entirely about any technical issues.

What I would do is insist they prove to me (by re-sending the file) that what they say is true.

I think this may call for a quick trip to the Blue Board.

Cheers,
Andy


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