Help needed to understand word count in Trados and Déjà Vu 3
Thread poster: Claudia Iglesias

Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 06:49
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Dec 26, 2006

Hello

I have to provide a quote for a very large website with many repetitions. The files are provided in Excel.
PractiCount tells me that there are 307040 words

I run a word count with DV3 and have the following result:

151041 words (886171 characters) in duplicate source rows,
of which only 24566 words (148359 characters) need to be translated


Trados gives:
Analyse Total (10 files):

Match Types Segments Words Percent Placeables
Context TM 0 0 0 0
Repetitions 17,608 100,842 38 2,421
100% 46 52 0 0
95% - 99% 0 0 0 0
85% - 94% 4 4 0 0
75% - 84% 1 2 0 0
50% - 74% 6 6 0 6
No Match 11,308 165,379 62 3,665
Total 28,973 266,285 100 6,092

Chars/Word 5.86
Chars Total 1,561,684


I'm not used to this, as I seldom apply discounts for repetitions and I don't use Trados, can you help me to understand these figures?

Thank you

Claudia


[Editado a las 2006-12-26 12:28]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
There is not much to understand... Dec 26, 2006

Hi Claudia,

The counting and fuzzy match algorithms are secret (I asked several CAT tool manufacturers), so they cannot be understood.

When nothing else is agreed, I apply the Trados 6.5 word count (it can differ even between different versions of the same CAT tool).

HTH,

Harry


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 06:49
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What I don't understand is... Dec 26, 2006

1) Why PractiCount sees 307,040 words and DV counts 151,041 (while Trados counts 266,285 if I understand well)

2) What duplicate source rows mean: I'll have to translate them once at least. How are they counted.

and there are more things that I don't understand, but I must go step by step.

Thanks

Claudia


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Number Magic :-) Dec 26, 2006

Claudia Iglesias wrote:
1) Why PractiCount sees 307,040 words and DV counts 151,041 (while Trados counts 266,285 if I understand well)

2) What duplicate source rows mean: I'll have to translate them once at least. How are they counted.

1) Even if it is in Excel, the website will probably contain many tags which are mostly not counted as text by the CAT tools.

And besides the different ways of handling tags and numbers, the different segmentation rules seem to have a major influence on the analysis results.

2) The repetitions of Trados are listed separately in the analysis, while the duplicates of Deja Vu are meant inclusively (that's why they mention how many of them will actually need to be translated).

Although I am scheduling my workloads using the Deja Vu word count, I am using the Trados word count for invoicing.
Otherwise, I would have to adapt my rates depending on the applied CAT tool (and nobody has ever asked me for that).

Harry

[Edited at 2006-12-27 06:21]


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Ritu Bhanot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:49
Member (2006)
French to Hindi
+ ...
Same Question about wordfast Dec 27, 2006

Hi,

Thanks for asking... as people ask for discounts on the basis of these analysis, it'd be really interesting to understand it and where to give discounts and where not... I use wordfast and here's an example:

Analogy segments words char. %
---------------------------------------------------------
Repetitions 1099 2954 22770 12%
100% 0 0 0 0%
95%-99% 0 0 0 0%
85%-94% 1 2 15 0%
75%-84% 7 16 216 0%
_0%-74% 2113 21153 135434 88%
Total 3220 24125 158435
(character count includes spaces)



So, what do you make of it... and where do you give discounts?


Thanks to anyone who can answer this

Regards,

Ritu


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Basically, the same answers Dec 27, 2006

Ritu Bhanot wrote:
So, what do you make of it... and where do you give discounts?

If you don't see any reason to give a discount then you don't have any reason to give it.

It is the client's task to convince you that a particular project will take you significantly less time than the average projects for which you determined your standard rates.

This is called negotiation.

Harry


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Ritu Bhanot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:49
Member (2006)
French to Hindi
+ ...
Discounts and wordfast analysis Dec 27, 2006

Hi Harry,

Thanks for your response, what I wanted to know was if you (or anyone else) had to translate this document, would you give any discount for repetitions (what does this actually imply)?

Personally, I think only 100% matches are worth giving discount for...

What does the word repetition imply?

And I'd like to know about other tools as well... i.e. answers to Claudia's post.

Thanks

Ritu


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
repetitions & duplicates Dec 27, 2006

Ritu Bhanot wrote:
What does the word repetition imply?

Suppose you have an empty TM and the text contains 3 segments containing 10 words each and these segments are equal, then you would have 10 new words + 20 repetitions, or 30 duplicates of which only 10 need to be translated.

But the counts from different CAT tools can hardly be compared, because the definition of a "segment" depends on the CAT tool as well as on its settings for the segment delimiters, and the definition of "equal" also depends on the CAT tool.

HTH,

Harry


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 06:49
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear Harry Jan 3, 2007

Thanks for your answers.

Claudia


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