| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Off topic: Beginner’s luck ??? Thread poster: Juliano Martins
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NecdetB 
Türkiye
Local time: 07:51
German to Turkish
+ ...
| Let's look at the first sentence again | Jul 29, 2008 |
Williamson wrote:
but in your first sentence there are quite some mistakes
I found only one: 'I am a Brazilian and I love foreign languages very much.'
But if you meant 'first sentences', I am sure he, too, must have meant 'studying' and 'analist'.
Have a nice day!
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 21:51
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | You know, facts can be entertaining, too | Jul 29, 2008 |
Congrats, Juliano! How did you manage it?
For example joining in November when your profile page states last September.
Congrats to you for translating all those words in your 4th language pair during the last 6 weeks while being busy working in the Ita>Eng pair during the past 3 weeks as well.
Keep up the good work!
Addendum:
According to the "Questi... See more Congrats, Juliano! How did you manage it?
For example joining in November when your profile page states last September.
Congrats to you for translating all those words in your 4th language pair during the last 6 weeks while being busy working in the Ita>Eng pair during the past 3 weeks as well.
Keep up the good work!
Addendum:
According to the "Questions asked", n'est-ce pas?
[Edited at 2008-07-29 09:13] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tim Drayton
Cyprus
Local time: 07:51
Turkish to English
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| Is my output too low? | Jul 29, 2008 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote: Lia Fail wrote:
As for your own throughput, although I've seen incredible claims here in ProZ, I'm pretty certain that most experienced translators would talk about averages of around 2000 a day and 10000 a week (averages, I emphasise, that is, averaged out over time, sometimes you'll do 3000 a day, or maybe 12000 a week, but exceptionally).
It would be dangerous to assume that you're on a permanent gravy train of 3000 dollars a week guaranteed earnings.
Whilst I also find these claims from a beginner a little high - although fully accept this is what Juliano has done, he is only bluffing himself if these claims are exaggerated - I don't agree with your statement on daily/monthly word counts. I am an experienced translator and consistently and accurately translate far more than what you are suggesting on a daily/weekly basis - probably because I focus almost exclusively on legal translation, use CAT tools and speech recognition - nevertheless output varies greatly from person to person. That said, it would indeed be dangerous for Juliano to assume his current rate of incoming work will continue and to keep all his eggs in one basket.
Reading other people's posts here sometimes leaves me with an inferiority complex about my own output. I consider 2000 target words to be a normal day and 3000 target words to be very good. With very demanding legal texts, I struggle to do 1500 target words.
What slows me down is terminology research. Remove research from the equation - give me the Turkish equivalent of Janet and John (a 1960's British school textbook for teaching infants to read) to translate into English, for example - and I could easily achieve outputs of 4-5000 words per day.
I am particularly suprised to hear that anybody working in the field of legal translation can achieve this kind of conveyor belt speed. The law by its very nature covers all aspects of human existence. A statute, a contract or a law suit may relate to any kind of commercial activity, and will include specialised terminology peculiar to that area. Yesterday within the field of "legal translation" I was working on a stack of invoices for expenses incurred in repairing a damaged ship. Somebody must be disputing the cost of these repairs - that is why the job is classified as "legal". I flew through most of them - there was even an invoice for 120 euros' worth of beer (No wonder somebody smelt a fish)! Then I came across a very obscure term in an itemised invoice covering work performed on the hull. I spent an hour and a half researching this - and even then was forced to make an educated guess because I was unable to find the definitive translation. Bang went my chance of turning out many thousands of words that day, I am afraid.
PS I challenge anybody with a knowledge of Turkish to explain to me what "triz çekilmesi" means. I can give a clue - it is a technique used in painting the hull of a ship. I am pretty sure nobody can answer this one with 100% certainty.
| | | | | You can only be lucky in the beginning... | Jul 29, 2008 |
Wolfgang Jörissen wrote:
Hard worker with a natural talent
"Talent is the cultivation of talent"
Nikos Kazantzakis, of the most important modern Greek writers
You might have had beginner's luck. But the fact that you continued working so well shows that besides luck, you also had the skill and ability to keep on the good work. Still, in a very competetive field, you will have to work hard to stay at the top (or near the top). Cultivate your talent, and this will gradually build your confidence.
Best wishes,
Eleni
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Juliano Martins
Brazil
Local time: 01:51
Member (2008)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | thanks for the reply | Jul 29, 2008 |
Hello,
Thanks for all the replies. I have a lot to say.
Indeed, I wish to do a translator course. That was in my plans long before all this happens.
I think I was able do all this job because I am a very dedicated person and I’m loving to do it. I'm so happy when I deliver a translated file. That's my passion, for sure. When I learned English and French, I really learned it. I studied everyday at home, I studied each lesson several times. Same thing now,... See more Hello,
Thanks for all the replies. I have a lot to say.
Indeed, I wish to do a translator course. That was in my plans long before all this happens.
I think I was able do all this job because I am a very dedicated person and I’m loving to do it. I'm so happy when I deliver a translated file. That's my passion, for sure. When I learned English and French, I really learned it. I studied everyday at home, I studied each lesson several times. Same thing now, since I'm studding Italian and German. I had never studied 2 languages simultaneously. I intended to study only Italian, but I traveled to Europe last January, and I loved Germany and Austria so much, that I couldn't help it.
I know that I must improve my writing, of course. I know that I make a lot of mistakes, but I pay a lot of attention and I research a lot when I'm translating. My abilities in Computer Science have helped me a lot, no doubt about it. I'm just a beginner. I have no certification. I have nothing, only my desire, passion, dedication and hard work. I want to buy Wordfast or Trados, or something like that. I have lots of doubts when I'm translating, but I go figure it out, I use dictionaries, Google, Wikipedia, everything that I can, see.
I joined in a contest here in March, a text about erotism, and there was a big polemic about my translation (English > Portuguese). Someone said that my translation was the worst of all. Then the others criticizes the way that person had put the words. Well, I liked it, I learned a lot. And I was voted in the 6th place out of 8 finalists.
I don't consider working with freelance programming. I am graduated since 2002 in Computer Science, and I have always worked with it. However, it doesn't excite me (well, sometimes, but not always).
About Italian and Spanish, I can read it easily, they are Latin languages and seem a lot like Portuguese, that's why I think they can be source languages from which I can translate to Portuguese, English and French. However, I don't think I can translate to them yet.
My first translation job was Portuguese>French and the client was quite desperate, they had a mountain of work to do, maybe more than 300 K words in the same project, I imagine (I did 80 K of them). And now I'm doing Italian>English. I have lots of questions, but I thing I can figure them out. I simply love it. I don't intend to steal people's job, not even to compete with you guys. Indeed, I have declined some jobs that I was offered and I have suggested some translators I met here to do the job. Some clients sent me things and I imagined that I didn't have time or ability, so I sent it to someone else. See.
I just think that a completely unusual thing happened this last 6 weeks. This is a biases statistics. No one can be that lucky. But I was prepared and I took the chance. I accepted the challenge, and now I'm very happy. I know that this work flux is not usual. That's why I posted this topic, so you could teach me something.
Next Friday I'm traveling to Europe again, I'm going to do a German course in Vienna. I had planed it four months ago. In fact, I will visit the headquarters of this company to which I have worked in London. I would love to meet some translators so we could talk.
Well. I just woke up and read this lots of messages from you. Thanks a lot. I'm going to work now (programming). Maybe one of the last days in this profession.
Thank you all and best wishes,
Juliano.
[Edited at 2008-07-29 13:49] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
| beginner vs established translators | Jul 29, 2008 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
I am an experienced translator and consistently and accurately translate far more than what you are suggesting on a daily/weekly basis - probably because I focus almost exclusively on legal translation, use CAT tools and speech recognition - nevertheless output varies greatly from person to person.
Good for you:-)
I also use DNS and Trados (although I generally don't do repetitive texts), although I do do the same kind of work for the same clients.
I still think my figures are reasonable, once averaged out.
I have counted 43000 for 2 July to 29 July, which I "felt" to be a slightly slow period, as it happens. I guess in other periods I might do 12000/week, but not more (definitely not every week of the year), and very much depending on what other obligations I have (including non-remunerated professional ones).
Returning to the forum and Juliano, the difference between you and Juliano is that you are established and he is not. Once one has a portfolio of regular clients (and is not relying on a single client), then one is likely to work steadily to the point where one feels they don't want/need to earn more or would prefer to have more free time.
| | | | | Beginner's luck | Jul 29, 2008 |
Juliano,
did you get paid?
Did you actually see the money in your bank account?
Silvestro
| | | | Juliano Martins
Brazil
Local time: 01:51
Member (2008)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | some answers | Jul 29, 2008 |
How did I manage it?
I did a great effort to work during the evenings and the weekends. I don’t know how to say it in English, but in Portuguese we could say that I wanted to “fazer a fama e deitar na cama”. Does anyone know it in English? Perhaps “Make one’s bed and lie in it”, I don’t know for sure.
I confess that there were lots of repetition on the texts. It helped me a lot to add some thousands of words. If they didn’t mind paying me for that, well,... See more How did I manage it?
I did a great effort to work during the evenings and the weekends. I don’t know how to say it in English, but in Portuguese we could say that I wanted to “fazer a fama e deitar na cama”. Does anyone know it in English? Perhaps “Make one’s bed and lie in it”, I don’t know for sure.
I confess that there were lots of repetition on the texts. It helped me a lot to add some thousands of words. If they didn’t mind paying me for that, well, be my guest.
Did I get paid already?
No. However, I consider my outsourcer a reliable one. I see that hundreds of people here have worked with them since 2001 and no problem at all (or at least some delays in the payments, but that’s OK).
And I have worked for some other clients, and I got some payments already.
[Edited at 2008-07-29 13:12]
[Edited at 2008-07-29 13:52] ▲ Collapse
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| I don't want to be anal about it, but... | Jul 29, 2008 |
Necdet Balta wrote: Williamson wrote:
but in your first sentence there are quite some mistakes I found only one: 'I am a Brazilian and I love foreign languages very much.' But if you meant 'first sentences', I am sure he, too, must have meant 'studying' and 'analist'. Have a nice day!
..."analyst" is the English word you're looking for.
Have a nice day,
Benjamin
| | | | | Juliano, please, be very very careful... | Jul 29, 2008 |
you say that you are translating from Italian into English. These languages are both non native to you, and this is a very risky attitude. I am Italian and I never translate into English. Even if nobody has claimed that your translations were wrong up till now, this doesn't mean it will last forever. Maybe one day someone (an English or French mother tongue, for istance) will read your translations and find mistakes... and you will loose your customers in no time, or will get no money at all! So... See more you say that you are translating from Italian into English. These languages are both non native to you, and this is a very risky attitude. I am Italian and I never translate into English. Even if nobody has claimed that your translations were wrong up till now, this doesn't mean it will last forever. Maybe one day someone (an English or French mother tongue, for istance) will read your translations and find mistakes... and you will loose your customers in no time, or will get no money at all! So, please, be careful not to "fare il passo più lungo della gamba" (as we say in Italy, meaning "bite off more than one can chew"). I think you'd better establish a sound base of customers for long-term business relationships, than making a lot of money now being aware that, sooner or later, it may come to a stop. You know, better safe than sorry... I believe you could be an excellent translator from English, French and Italian into Portuguese, and I think you should be able to have plenty of jobs in that pairs. All the best.
barbara ▲ Collapse
| | | | Angela Arnone
Local time: 06:51
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Not wishing to be a wet blanket | Jul 29, 2008 |
But I am rather taken aback that an outsourcer like the one you mentioned has given you large projects into a language of which you are not a native speaker.
I've been in the translation field for years, I only work into English, which is my dominant language, and only for sectors in which I have developed experience, and I get asked for a CV, tests and references all the time, and I get asked to prove I am actually English (because of my name) because my customers want native speakers.... See more But I am rather taken aback that an outsourcer like the one you mentioned has given you large projects into a language of which you are not a native speaker.
I've been in the translation field for years, I only work into English, which is my dominant language, and only for sectors in which I have developed experience, and I get asked for a CV, tests and references all the time, and I get asked to prove I am actually English (because of my name) because my customers want native speakers.
The company you mention put me through the hoop, asked me for a test and references, then never ever got back to me.
Maybe that's sour grapes on my part, but I am surprised to say the least that they were so much more relaxed in your case.
Good luck all along the line - maybe I just need to hone my marketing skills!
Angela
Juliano Martins wrote:
How did I manage it?
I did a great effort to work during the evenings and the weekends. I don’t know how to say it in English, but in Portuguese we could say that I wanted to “fazer a fama e deitar na cama”. Does anyone know it in English? Perhaps “Make one’s bed and lie in it”, I don’t know for sure.
I confess that there were lots of repetition on the texts. It helped me a lot to add some thousands of words. If they didn’t mind paying me for that, well, be my guest.
Did I get paid already?
No. However, I think that *** is a reliable outsourcer. Don’t you think? I see that hundreds of people here have worked with them since 2001 and no problem at all (or at least some delays in the payments, but that’s OK).
And I have worked for some other clients, and I got some payments already.
[Edited at 2008-07-29 13:24] ▲ Collapse
| | | | NecdetB
Türkiye
Local time: 07:51
German to Turkish
+ ...
| Yeah, thanks Benjamin | Jul 29, 2008 |
tectranslate wrote:
..."analyst" is the English word you're looking for.
Benjamin
Thank you for showing that I did fail badly as well! Highly appreciated.
Necdet
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translation into French and the from English into Italian? I hope you are quite good, otherwise your work will be disputed and you won't see a penny...
| | | | awilliams
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:51
Italian to English
+ ...
| Good/bad/ugly | Jul 29, 2008 |
Hi Juliano,
First off, it's good to see someone so enthusiastic about languages in general. Nice move on your volunteer translation work.
However, I have serious concerns about your decision to translate professionally from Italian to English, given that neither Italian nor English is your native language. I can't comment on your IT>EN translation ability as your portfolio doesn't (yet?) contain a piece in that pair, so I won't.
Juliano Martins wrote:
I know that I must improve my writing, of course. I know that I make a lot of mistakes, but I pay a lot of attention and I research a lot when I'm translating. nd now I'm doing Italian>English. I have lots of questions, but I thing I can figure them out. I simply love it.
[/quote]
You seem to have been blessed with the desire to learn new languages and improve on your existing skills, which is great. You also say that you are aware that you make a lot of mistakes. Self-awareness = also good. The thing is, you can't afford to make even simple mistakes in a good translation. It needs to be all there. No "studding", no "annalists". (Am I being anal now?) Translating professionally into a non-native language (let alone between two non-native languages!) not only makes you look unprofessional but makes a mockery of the profession too. Yes, there are reasons why you might translate into a non-native language ("rarer" language pairs, working with a native proofreader, very specialist subject areas, etc.) and there are people out there who can do it and make a really good job of it but they are few and far between. Experience tells me that a lot of people think they can but really CAN'T. And as an outsourcer it makes me want to run a mile.
I say stick with what you know.
Good luck with it all,
Amy
| | | | | The point of my post ... | Jul 29, 2008 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
Reading other people's posts here sometimes leaves me with an inferiority complex about my own output. I consider 2000 target words to be a normal day and 3000 target words to be very good. With very demanding legal texts, I struggle to do 1500 target words.
What slows me down is terminology research. Remove research from the equation - give me the Turkish equivalent of Janet and John (a 1960's British school textbook for teaching infants to read) to translate into English, for example - and I could easily achieve outputs of 4-5000 words per day.
I am particularly suprised to hear that anybody working in the field of legal translation can achieve this kind of conveyor belt speed. The law by its very nature covers all aspects of human existence. A statute, a contract or a law suit may relate to any kind of commercial activity, and will include specialised terminology peculiar to that area. Yesterday within the field of "legal translation" I was working on a stack of invoices for expenses incurred in repairing a damaged ship. Somebody must be disputing the cost of these repairs - that is why the job is classified as "legal". I flew through most of them - there was even an invoice for 120 euros' worth of beer (No wonder somebody smelt a fish)! Then I came across a very obscure term in an itemised invoice covering work performed on the hull. I spent an hour and a half researching this - and even then was forced to make an educated guess because I was unable to find the definitive translation. Bang went my chance of turning out many thousands of words that day, I am afraid.
... is precisely that everyone has different outputs Tim. There's nothing to feel inferior/superior about. You know what you're capable of, I know what I'm capable of - being a professional is first and foremost about recognising your own limits.
If you bear in mind that I practised as a lawyer for over a decade, still consult for my law firm back in SA, and have been doing legal translations for years, there is often very little terminology research for me to do. If I am sitting with a very academic text on some obscure aspect of admiralty jurisdiction, for instance, I may have to do some research, which I why I have different rates for what I term general, semi-specialised and specialised legal texts. However, I've studied maritime law, so even that isn't going to take up too much time. In many cases, it's just a question of refreshing my memory on the theory.
As a liquidator, I took control of hotel chains, mines, farming entities, breweries, even an airline that flew from Johannesburg to London, so I've got a good background in many industries. That has also helped tremendously with my translations.
Give me a menu/recipe on the other hand and I'll be sitting with it for hours because (a) it doesn't interest me in the least for starters, so I'll keep putting it off and (b) because I can't boil an egg to save my life (all just by way of example, as I wouldn't accept the job in the first place).
Legal is as close as I can possibly get to 'Janet and John' (without trying to dumb it down, it's just not as challenging to me perhaps as others, for obvious reasons)
That said, it took me years to get to this point. As a beginner, I'd be very wary of taking on the volumes mentioned here - and wouldn't translate into a language that wasn't my native language (simply because I can't) - the problem is that everything is always hunky-dory until it backfires!
Bye for now
Debs
[Edited at 2008-07-29 14:12]
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