| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Question for native speakers of Greek Thread poster: casey
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d_vachliot (X)
Local time: 16:20
Greek to English
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| I'm glad that more people are participating | Aug 23, 2008 |
Dear Casey,
one final note from me.
When I first read the sentence I thought that it was referring to two different persons, i.e. God our Father and Jesus Christ. That was MY first impression, all theological and other considerations aside.
Maybe it's because I do have a personal interest in these matters that I instinctively interpreted the passage this way. Who knows.
But that's how I read it. Thanks.
| | | | | Nick's example + Maria's reply... | Aug 23, 2008 |
...were exactly to the point and I really don't think that the ancient Greek leaves room for a different explanation here. At least to me, it is more than obvious that "God and Savior" refer to the same person, "Jesus Christ" and I also speak from a purely linguistic point of view.
All the best, Casey!
Dimitra
| | | | d_vachliot (X)
Local time: 16:20
Greek to English
+ ...
| the cook, thief, wife, lover | Aug 24, 2008 |
Dimitra Karamperi wrote:
I really don't think that the ancient Greek leaves room for a different explanation here.
What about the following cases in the Ancient Greek?
- “θάπτουσι καὶ τὸν οἰνοχόον καὶ μάγειρον καὶ ἱπποκόμον καὶ διήκονον καὶ ἀγγελιηφόρον”
(his cup-bearer and cook and horse-keeper and attendant and bearer of messages)
- “ο τέταρτος και έβδομος [...] και ο ύστερος"
«“the fourth and seventh, [king] [...] and the last”
- φοβοῦ τὸν Θεόν, υἱέ, καὶ βασιλέα
(fear God, o son, and king)
κατά την χάριν του Θεού ημών και κυρίου Ιησού Χριστού
(according to the grace of our God and (our?) Lord Jesus Christ.)
εν τη βασιλεία του Χριστού και θεού.
(in the kingdom of Christ and God.)
[Edited at 2008-08-24 01:37]
| | | | Nick Lingris 
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
Member (2006)
English to Greek
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| What has an exception in Herodotus to do with Paul? | Aug 24, 2008 |
Dear Dimitris, you have already made it clear that it is your opinion that there cannot be a definitive answer. Other people are entitled to their own opinions. And Casey can read the bible.org text and find the exceptions you mention and read the arguments and counter-arguments and reach his own conclusion.
Do you want to say that Paul could have made an exception in Titus? Or that he, like Homer, nodded and missed an article? Fair enough. Still, the average reader will not interpr... See more Dear Dimitris, you have already made it clear that it is your opinion that there cannot be a definitive answer. Other people are entitled to their own opinions. And Casey can read the bible.org text and find the exceptions you mention and read the arguments and counter-arguments and reach his own conclusion.
Do you want to say that Paul could have made an exception in Titus? Or that he, like Homer, nodded and missed an article? Fair enough. Still, the average reader will not interpret it as an exception. Perhaps your judgment was clouded by previous knowledge of the exception in Herodotus. But, in fact, you have stated that you have a personal interest in these matters which probably made you instinctively interpret the passage as a reference to two persons. Indeed, trying to persuade others that this could normally be interpreted as a reference to two persons turns the whole discussion into a theological argument. ▲ Collapse
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d_vachliot (X)
Local time: 16:20
Greek to English
+ ...
| How many exceptions is too many exceptions? | Aug 24, 2008 |
Nick Lingris wrote:
Other people are entitled to their own opinions.
Exactly what I've been trying to say all along. I am glad we solved that!
However, the question was addressed to Dimitra, who stated that the Greek text leaves no room for another interpretation and I wanted to know her opinion on similar passages from ancient Greek literature and the Bible (I have included one example from the Old Testament and two from the New.)
Nick Lingris wrote:
Indeed, trying to persuade others that this could normally be interpreted as a reference to two persons turns the whole discussion into a theological argument.
I'm not quite sure I understand you here. Are you sure it is me you're referring to?
I believe I've made my point. I now rest my case as a native Greek speaker.
[Edited at 2008-08-24 12:55]
| | | | | I agree, too, | Aug 24, 2008 |
with the explanation of Nick and Maria. Also, I want to say that the Greek used in the Bible, as well as other contemporary work, is quite easy to understand by a modern Greek, without needing to have a philological background. Of course, there can be some obscure points, but we can understand a lot more of the writings of this period than, say, the classical writers. Generally speaking, I've got the impression that the older the time a piece of writing was created, the harder it gets for modern... See more with the explanation of Nick and Maria. Also, I want to say that the Greek used in the Bible, as well as other contemporary work, is quite easy to understand by a modern Greek, without needing to have a philological background. Of course, there can be some obscure points, but we can understand a lot more of the writings of this period than, say, the classical writers. Generally speaking, I've got the impression that the older the time a piece of writing was created, the harder it gets for modern Greeks to understand. However, as far as I'm concerned, and without any particular philological/ theological background, the texts of the Bible are not hard to understand. ▲ Collapse
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