a general question about hosting service related obligations Thread poster: Brandis (X)
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 11:08
English to German
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Hello all! I had to turn to you to acquire some information about hosting services and populating a website. What are the processes involved and whose obligation is it. Well here is the picture -
One of my collaborators in India has just now migrated from one HSP (Hosting service provider from for ex. proz.com) to another. Now the collaborator expects to see the website on the net, there is none, the answer given by the HSP is that the ISP of my collaborator is responsible for populating... See more Hello all! I had to turn to you to acquire some information about hosting services and populating a website. What are the processes involved and whose obligation is it. Well here is the picture -
One of my collaborators in India has just now migrated from one HSP (Hosting service provider from for ex. proz.com) to another. Now the collaborator expects to see the website on the net, there is none, the answer given by the HSP is that the ISP of my collaborator is responsible for populating it through his backend servers. Initially accepted. But my collaborator´s ISP is different from the HSP´s ISP. The logic I understand now would be, since anyone can have a website published through a HSP and doesn´t need to have an ISP to see the website, that should even be accessable in a cyber café. The HSP of my collaborator rejects this logic blatantly and sticks to his rigid argument that the collaborator´s ISP is responsible. Now the collaborator´s ISP argues back, since the website is not being hosted with him but with another ISP the services of whom the new HSP is taking to publish the collaborator´s website, there is nothing he can do. All this sounds confusing and I hope you understand what I am tying to say here and would give me useful hints what is right and how to solve this situation. One best example is that if my collaborator gave his site for hosting to proz.com, it is not of any importance, whichever ISP´s services he buys locally to access the net, the site will be visible and the management panel can be accessed. What do you think. Best Brandis
[Edited at 2007-02-08 07:22] ▲ Collapse
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gianfranco 
Brazil
Local time: 06:08
Member (2001)
English to Italian
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| The domain owner is responsible for the domain content | Feb 8, 2007 |
Dear Brandis,
If I understand correctly your description, your collaborator (the owner of the domain) is responsible for uploading the content of his own site in the new server, using the tools (control panel) and the access data (login and password) provided by the new hosting service.
Please note that there are some steps to take to make the new site visible, the DNS must point the domain to the new server, but all this is probably out of the scope of your question.... See more Dear Brandis,
If I understand correctly your description, your collaborator (the owner of the domain) is responsible for uploading the content of his own site in the new server, using the tools (control panel) and the access data (login and password) provided by the new hosting service.
Please note that there are some steps to take to make the new site visible, the DNS must point the domain to the new server, but all this is probably out of the scope of your question. The new hosting service will provide all necessary details and the IP address to their servers.
Your collaborator should have his files available and upload them to the new server. In general, neither the old hosting service nor the new hosting service are responsible for placing any file in the new server.
To put it in practical terms, if someone moves house (similar to moving to a new hosting service) and rents a new house, neither the old landlord nor the new one are responsible for moving their tenant's furniture. The tenant has to move his stuff personally or hire somebody technically capable of doing it on his behalf.
I hope this clarifies your doubts.
bye
Gianfranco
[Edited at 2007-02-08 13:15] ▲ Collapse
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 11:08
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | may be I wasn´t clear in my posting | Feb 8, 2007 |
Halo Gianfranco,
The site has been published already through an OHSP (old hosting service provider). My collaborator was unhappy, due to bad mail service and service outage troubles, so he had migrated to a NHSP (new hosting service provider) and sent the files for publshing, which were also duly published. Now the Site is not visible and the c-panel is not accessable. One reason actually the only one given by the NHSP was that my collaborator´s ISP ( Internet service provider) ha... See more Halo Gianfranco,
The site has been published already through an OHSP (old hosting service provider). My collaborator was unhappy, due to bad mail service and service outage troubles, so he had migrated to a NHSP (new hosting service provider) and sent the files for publshing, which were also duly published. Now the Site is not visible and the c-panel is not accessable. One reason actually the only one given by the NHSP was that my collaborator´s ISP ( Internet service provider) has to populate the new DNS pointers at his backend servers and that the NHSP`s ISP is yet another one and he doesn´t do it, hence the site is not visible to my collaborator and the c-panel is not accessable either. I was personally not aware that it is the client´s responsibility to inform his ISP to populate the site. In my example, when I am a client of T-online.de and published my site on proz.com hosting, I did not need to inform anyone, the good work was done. So I advised my collaborator to migrate to proz.com, but the man is so old and not aware of all the technicalities, and turned again to me. While not having full detail of the situation and of the domain in question, I was communicating both with the OHSP and the NHSP, again their answers are different, so that the situation is very confusing. I am trying to understand the logical working as posted in the initial posting.
Best Brandis ▲ Collapse
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gianfranco
Brazil
Local time: 06:08
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Clarification | Feb 8, 2007 |
Hi Brandis,
trying to untangle the problem, please, forget any ISP, if you intend a provider of Internet access. The connection used to access the Internet is not relevant for this issue.
Lets' talk only about Hosting providers, or as you call them OHSP (old) and NHSP (new).
The files previously hosted in the OHSP are not relevant either, and they may have been deleted by now, as the service has been terminated.
I don't understand if the files have ... See more Hi Brandis,
trying to untangle the problem, please, forget any ISP, if you intend a provider of Internet access. The connection used to access the Internet is not relevant for this issue.
Lets' talk only about Hosting providers, or as you call them OHSP (old) and NHSP (new).
The files previously hosted in the OHSP are not relevant either, and they may have been deleted by now, as the service has been terminated.
I don't understand if the files have been uploaded in the new server, but if they are, there is still the problem of informing about them the global network, i.e. telling the Internet about their new location. They are in a different server!!
When we type in any URL, what we do is in fact a query to a number of servers that in turn convert that URL in the corresponding IP address. These servers are called DNS, or Domain Name Servers, and they must be correctly setup.
How to access the new hosting service should be described somewhere in their website, where you should find instructions for using their contol panel and for updating your DNS data. Only the domain owner (or somebody instructed and authorised by the owner) has access to update the DNS data.
Probably the owner has received the relevant information but not being techically expert, he has ignored or not passed on the information.
Please note that once the DNS is updated, it may take up to 48 hours for the new address to propagate, so that all the network is aware of the new values. It happens automatically, but it takes some time. Once this is done, and duly propagated, typing the domain's URL will have the effect of displaying the site content, that is if the files are uploaded correctly in it and in working order.
I can't say what is missing from this chain of actions, but this essential description may help you to place the correct questions to the new hosting service support desk.
In any case, the Internet access provider and the old hosting service are not involved in any way.
Talk to the domain owner and the new hosting service only.
bye
Gianfranco ▲ Collapse
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 11:08
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Thank you I think we are getting somewhere | Feb 8, 2007 |
Gianfranco said -
"When we type in any URL, what we do is in fact a query to a number of servers that in turn convert that URL in the corresponding IP address. These servers are called DNS, or Domain Name Servers, and they must be correctly setup.
How to access the new hosting service should be described somewhere in their website, where you should find instructions for using their contol panel and for updating your DNS data. Only the domain owner (or somebody instructed and... See more Gianfranco said -
"When we type in any URL, what we do is in fact a query to a number of servers that in turn convert that URL in the corresponding IP address. These servers are called DNS, or Domain Name Servers, and they must be correctly setup.
How to access the new hosting service should be described somewhere in their website, where you should find instructions for using their contol panel and for updating your DNS data. Only the domain owner (or somebody instructed and authorised by the owner) has access to update the DNS data.
Probably the owner has received the relevant information but not being techically expert, he has ignored or not passed on the information.
Please note that once the DNS is updated, it may take up to 48 hours for the new address to propagate, so that all the network is aware of the new values. It happens automatically, but it takes some time. Once this is done, and duly propagated, typing the domain's URL will have the effect of displaying the site content, that is if the files are uploaded correctly in it and in working order. "
THE DNS Data has been updated and we were informed that populating the site would require anywhere between 24 - 72 hours. Now it has been over a week. So the question arises, while the site is not visible to my collaborator and his technical contact cannot access the https connection, what is happening. The NHSP informs that the ISP of the collaborator must populate this site at his backend servers. Now I am buff, for over a week nobody at the collaborator´s ISP is even aware of this issue. The NHSP says, he can access the site and the c-panel aswell and why can´t the collaborator do the same. I feel there is some information gap here. The fact that the NHSP is already into this business for over 5 years reflects that he has the required knowledge. I cannot explain what kind of gap it is, but the site is not accessable at the location of the collaborator and his technical contact cannot access the c-panel. I trying to guess all kinds of things. What possible reason could it be that a situation like arises. Best Brandis ▲ Collapse
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gianfranco
Brazil
Local time: 06:08
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Brandis wrote:
THE DNS Data has been updated and we were informed that populating the site would require anywhere between 24 - 72 hours.
I think you are using the incorrect terminolgoy, or confusing two separate concepts.
I said "propagating the DNS data may required 24 to 48 hrs", but you say "populating the site". This is not the same!
If the DNS data are updated, after 2-3 days they are propagated in the whole Internet, automatically, there is no ISP involved.
I have no idea, instead, of what you intend for "populating the site".
The correct terms are important to make sense of what's going on.
If you intend "uploading the files", it would not take more than a few minutes, but they are visible only when the DNS data are "propagated" and the URL of that domain can be resolved when called.
Brandis wrote:
...The NHSP informs that the ISP of the collaborator must populate this site at his backend servers.
No idea what it means, but is it them talking funny or your way of reporting their words?
And what has the ISP to do, again, as I explained above. I don't understand if you intend to say Hosting service or connection service. But you throw in a few ISPs, every now and then, when it was made clear that we need to talk about HSP Hosting Service Providers, only!
Brandis wrote:
... The NHSP says, he can access the site and the c-panel aswell and why can´t the collaborator do the same.
Are you sure to have the correct access details to manage the content in their server?
Have you tried to upload a file, even a simple basic index.htm file and see if it goes correctly in the new server?
Whoever is trying, if it's not you, and apparently not managing to access the c-panel, are you sure they have updated the DNS data already?
If they cannot access the c-panel they may have failed to update the DNS data too... judging from where they are stumped now...
Don't trust what you are told. Try it yourself, if possible, and see with your own eyes, otherwise you must be 100% sure that the other party is reporting to you complete and absolutely reliable information.
bye
Gianfranco
[Edited at 2007-02-08 15:04]
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 11:08
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | May be you are right | Feb 8, 2007 |
Halo! It seems that in india people use populating than propagating, may be also due to ever exploding population . Constructions like " I cann´t be able to" seem to be regular usage. So that means that the NHSP (it is a personal usage, in order to differentiate one from the other) probably has not updated the DNS records. But why would any HSP with 5 year practical experience do such a mistake. As I understand there are not many... See more Halo! It seems that in india people use populating than propagating, may be also due to ever exploding population. Constructions like " I cann´t be able to" seem to be regular usage. So that means that the NHSP (it is a personal usage, in order to differentiate one from the other) probably has not updated the DNS records. But why would any HSP with 5 year practical experience do such a mistake. As I understand there are not many details linked with a domain migration. I need some time again guessing the gap and or till I get more detailed information. I thank you Gianfranco. Best Brandis ▲ Collapse
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Magda Dziadosz
Poland
Local time: 11:08
Member (2004)
English to Polish
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| Updating DNS records | Feb 8, 2007 |
Brandis wrote:
So that means that the NHSP (it is a personal usage, in order to differentiate one from the other) probably has not updated the DNS records. But why would any HSP with 5 year practical experience do such a mistake. As I understand there are not many details linked with a domain migration. I need some time again guessing the gap and or till I get more detailed information.
Hi Brandis,
Chceck if your collaborator really did this: it's his job, as a domain owner to contact the registry (where his domain is registered) and inform them about new hosting server names and numbers. No HSP would do that - only the domain owner. When I changed one of my hostings recently, I actually was requested to send the new numbers by fax or registered mail... but normally you can do it on-line. It took no more then 12 hours for the address to propagate.
HTH,
Magda
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