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KudoZ - Suggestion for eliminating abuse of the system
Thread poster: xxxIanW
xxxIanW
Local time: 05:05
German to English
+ ...
May 10, 2003

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by langnet and Henk - http://www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&forum_id=27&topic_id=10863 - about providing sufficient context for KudoZ questions. It would definitely be an improvement if the askers were obliged to invest a little more time to ensure better quality answers and to reduce the time which the answerers need to spend.



My own pet hate is when the system is abused by certain individuals who post sentence after sentence to be translated by their good-natured colleagues (this is not a million miles away from disreputable establishments who divide a text into ten “test translations” and get it done “for free”). Personally, I don’t think that lengthy sentences should be allowed in the first place – the part of the sentence which is causing difficulty should be stated and the question would then focus on this.



Anyway, I would suggest that a difference be made between “regulars” who contribute regularly to KudoZ by answering questions and agreeing, disagreeing or adding comments, and “visitors”, who contribute rarely or not at all. “Regulars” would be able to ask as many questions as they like and “visitors” would be restricted to a certain number a week. This would ensure that those who use the resource extensively also put something back into it. And, hopefully, reduce the abuses of the system.



I’m relatively new to the KudoZ scene myself, so I thought that the best approach would be to toss this basic, raw idea among the ProZ and see what develops. Any thoughts on the matter?



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lefoque
United States
Local time: 23:05
French to English
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let's not create new problems May 10, 2003

So once you\'re are classified as a visitor , how would you propose that person become a regular if s/he decides to participate more often? What would the criteria be for determining regular and visitor? A profile? Platinum membership? So many Kudoz or Browniz points?

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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 06:05
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Wholly agree with Ian May 10, 2003

Quote:


I would suggest that a difference be made between “regulars” who contribute regularly to KudoZ by answering questions and agreeing, disagreeing or adding comments, and “visitors”, who contribute rarely or not at all. “Regulars” would be able to ask as many questions as they like and “visitors” would be restricted to a certain number a week.




In my humble view excellent idea. There\'s survey on the question abuse going on just now, but there wasn\'t so sound an option to vote on.



_________________



[ This Message was edited by: uldis on 2003-05-10 23:21]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Feasability? May 10, 2003

Quantity restrictions for visitors would not work, because the ID of visitors cannot be verified: you can get email accounts for free, IP numbers usually change and cookies can be removed.

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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 05:05
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...

MODERATOR
'Abuse' is a very subjective word May 11, 2003

Dear Ian,



You said:

\"My own pet hate is when the system is abused by certain individuals who post sentence after sentence to be translated by their good-natured colleagues (this is not a million miles away from disreputable establishments who divide a text into ten “test translations” and get it done “for free”). \"



Remember the very simple KudoZ principle:



NOBODY IS FORCED TO ANSWERING KUDOZ QUESTIONS



If you don\'t like the questions - simply do not answer them, let others do it.



Best regards



Mats J C Wiman

Übersetzer/Translator/Traducteur/Traductor > swe

http://www.MatsWiman.com

http://www.Deutsch-Schwedisch.com

http://www.proz.com/translator/1749 Deu>swe Proz.com moderator

eMail: MatsWiman@swipnet.se

Träsk 201

SE-872 97 Skog

Tel : +46-612-54112

Fax : +46-612-54181

Mobile: +46-70-5769797



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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 11:05
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
Academic & selected Kudoz answer May 11, 2003

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by langnet and Henk -

My own pet hate is when the system is abused by certain individuals who post sentence after sentence to be translated by their good-natured colleagues.

I also find that selected answers given by the asker is sometimes sub-standard; it is too emotional and not referentical academically.

I express that academic questions and Kudoz should not be on the same basis.

Soonthon L.



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xxxIanW
Local time: 05:05
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re. Mats' reply May 11, 2003

\"If you don\'t like the questions - simply do not answer them, let others do it. \"



True, and I personally make a point of not answering such questions. But I firmly believe that even those who answer these questions would be happier if certain restrictions were introduced. I don\'t believe that turning a blind eye will improve anything.



After all, I\'m not FORCED to go to the park when I want some exercise, but I’m perfectly entitled to be annoyed when there is dog crap everywhere ...



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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:05
English to German
+ ...
KudoZ is for terms help May 11, 2003

Hi Ian,

Being new to ProZ.com (as you said yourself), you may not have seen the many previous threads discussing this issue.



In principle (as set out in the KudoZ Rules of Etiquette, KudoZ is for terms help only. That said, nobody raises an eyebrow if someone (member or non-member) stumbles across one or two sentences in a project, and politely asks for help translating these.



Posting entire paragraphs or texts, sentence by sentence, is a rare occurrence, but it does happen - in that case, just contact the moderator(s) for the language pair concerned, who have functions at their disposal to stop this. Just bear in mind that moderators are volunteers, and are not online 24 hours... (which is why there\'s two of them for most of the more active pairs).



HTH - Ralf


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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 05:05
English to Swedish
+ ...
Any form of censorship is inherently evil! May 11, 2003

I fully support Mat’s opinion.

Is it not interesting that those who rarely or never answer questions want to introduce restrictions (read \"censorship\") and those who willingly help others don’t!



Sven.



[ This Message was edited by: sven on 2003-05-11 13:04]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
inherently evil <i>-- shudder</i> May 11, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-05-11 13:03, sven wrote:

Any form of censorship is inherently evil!


I don\'t agree with this claim of absolutely unlimited freedom of speech

(because words can be actions and not every possible action should be allowed),



but I think that those questions which are not among the most welcomed ones can still be helpful as a kind of roughage to keep hundreds of translators of a language pair online and the game running.

The attendance quota is astonishing enough.

[ This Message was edited by: Harry_B on 2003-05-11 18:18]


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xxxIanW
Local time: 05:05
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Ralf May 11, 2003

Thanks Ralf – I was not actually aware that this sort of thing is a “rare occurrence”. I’ve also seen other ProZ complaining that the askers do not even attempt to research terms themselves before asking for help. However, the recent case that really got up my nose was not a case of someone asking for help with a few sentences, which, as you said, would not raise any eyebrows. It was someone posting seven or eight related full sentences in the space of a half-hour without even a polite comment to ask for help.



And Sven, I appreciate that you may consider this to be akin to censorship - however, I do not appreciate the assumption that I am one of “those who rarely or never answer questions”. It may be interesting, but it is far from accurate. And if you have such strong feelings on censorship, perhaps you’ll agree that I am entitled to express my opinion as well.



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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:05
English to German
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Contact the moderator... May 11, 2003

Hi Ian

Quote:


However, the recent case that really got up my nose was not a case of someone asking for help with a few sentences, which, as you said, would not raise any eyebrows.



I was talking about \"one or two\", not \"a few\".



Quote:
It was someone posting seven or eight related full sentences in the space of a half-hour without even a polite comment to ask for help.


Again, please contact a moderator - I would need to see the merits of the situation, of course, but it\'s rather likely that a moderator would have intervened. Very often, it\'s a case of misunderstanding with respect to the purpose of ProZ.com (and KudoZ in particular) that can be clarified with a friendly email.



Best, Ralf

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xxxIanW
Local time: 05:05
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER
OK May 11, 2003

OK - will do, thanks Ralf!

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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 06:05
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Do not agree with Mats May 11, 2003

Quote:


If you don\'t like the questions - simply do not answer them, let others do it.





I have one more (OK- personal) reason to be annoyed by such questions. I receive all e-mails, including ones from ProZ, also on my mobile, which is very convenient in order not to miss something important. My mobile operator allows to receive 10 messages from Internet per day, if that limit is exceeded, I have to renew it sending a special message (at a standard message cost) to my mobile services provider and I do it on average 5 times a day and no problems. But it annoys me when within an hour 20 questions from a single source eats up 2 my message limits. Besides, I thing that also other people use similar system, so it doesn\'t affect only me...
[addsig]

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:05
English to German
+ ...
Email settings May 11, 2003

Hi uldis,

I\'d be amazed if you used one single email address for everything. I use a separate address for ProZ.com notifications, so if I\'m outside the office I just check the main email account on my handheld.



Best, Ralf


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