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What if a moderator is out of line?
Thread poster: Ron Stelter
Ron Stelter  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:04
Member (2003)
German to English
May 13, 2003

I\'m a relatively new translator to ProZ.com. As I am continually trying to improve my skills, I try to ask several questions every day (probably 5-7 questions most days). I usually have consulted my dictionaries and have preliminary suggestions of my own which I just want confirmed. Or I am trying to get the best wording.



As I understand, I am perfectly within every rule of KudoZ in so doing. I do not ask 20-30 questions per day or anything like this. However, in asking something like my sixth question today, I got a highly rude comment from the moderator saying that I should \"post it as a job.\" I think this is way, way out of line. I post in the link below.



http://www.proz.com/kudoz/433347



To whom do I turn to in such a case?



I also think that people should be encouraged to ask questions, not discouraged from asking questions. And I think ProZ.com would be a lot better for it.


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Johanna Timm, PhD  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 01:04
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
A kind word will do the trick May 13, 2003

It usually works for me.





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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 04:04
SITE FOUNDER
Yeah... May 13, 2003

...that would have worked. Maybe a retraction of your outburst would be appropriate at this point, too.



Bear in mind that Kim is a volunteer, who, if he is commenting, has in all likelihood received messages from others.



You are right that you have not violated any rules. And it is great that you answer others, too. But you have asked 607 questions (against 200+ answers.) Don\'t let the helpfulness of the community give you a sense of entitlement that gets the better of your sense of courtesy. (PS. You are welcome to keep asking!)


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Marco Oberto  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:04
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
a more tolerant limit May 13, 2003

I myself chose to suggest a limitation to the use of the system, but in your case I agree that you definitely were not abusing.



In my view, a simple hour-limit, day-limit and month-limit such as 3-12-30 would be fine.





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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:04
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
hey Ron May 13, 2003

A private exchange of polite e-mails would\'ve solved things, ya know.



Kim is a very reasonable guy (you can\'t be anything less what with the midday Yucatan heat) and, I think, you could\'ve easily resolved this with him behind the scenes.



Let\'s tone things down a bit and hope for a a calmer KudoZ atmosphere.



Marcus


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Ron Stelter  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:04
Member (2003)
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Well May 13, 2003



[ This Message was edited by: ronjon on 2003-05-13 19:37]


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Ron Stelter  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:04
Member (2003)
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Well May 13, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-05-13 19:25, ronjon wrote:

I could do a little less with Kim\'s \"help,\" if that\'s what you call it. It is certainly hard for me to imagine there is anything helpful in discouraging people from asking (or answering) questions.



Henry, I may have asked a large number of questions, but they are funneled out over the course of asking almost every day. It\'s not 20 or 30 questions. And I have tried to answer questions as well. In fact, I would have a lot more points than I do if the correct answer were chosen. But that\'s a different topic...



And I retract nothing...the moderator was out of line and you should speak to him.



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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 03:04
German to English
My apologies to Ron May 13, 2003

Dear Ron,

My note was actually intended to get you to think about something, and I meant it in a friendly way. There are two kinds of KudoZ addiction: being addicted to answering questions (my case) and being addicted to using the system as a crutch. As you say yourself, you’re a relatively new translator and I used KudoZ quite a lot too when I started out. But I believe the way to become more proficient in translating is to struggle with the text, to research and find similar texts and glossaries that will help. This is the way to grow as a translator. Over the past several months I’ve gotten the impression that the first thing you do when you’re not sure about a translation is to go to KudoZ. I think it should be the last place to go – only after you have struggled mightily. You have broken no KudoZ rules. You have not abused the system, but I think you are doing yourself harm as a translator. As you know yourself, giving students the answers to questions is not helping them – encouraging them to find the answers themselves is.

I should not have written the note but should have let you know how I feel in private, and I apologize if I have offended you. I wrote the note as an individual Prozie, not as a moderator.



My best wishes, Kim



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swisstell
Italy
Local time: 10:04
German to English
+ ...
Not all moderators are motivators as well May 13, 2003

and I had by own battles with the man from Guadalajara (not Yucatan as another moderator writes). As I said to Kim not too long ago: we do not need \"Kommissars\" around here but colleagues and friends.

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Ron Stelter  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:04
Member (2003)
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Well, Kim, May 13, 2003

I certainly don\'t know how your original comment can be interpreted in a positive or constructive fashion. I also tend to disagree with your contention that I \"benefit more from struggling\" with a translation. Why should I spend an hour Googling, checking every dictionary fifteen times, etc.-and still only be half-sure-when I can have an answer I\'m 99% sure of in 5 minutes? That isn\'t about being lazy or dependent, but time-efficient. And I certainly don\'t hold it against other people when they ask questions and I try to help them. Or can a translator afford to spend 60 hours to do a 15-hour job? Hardly.



And I think I could do with a lot less of other people knowing what is best for me...



Perhaps there should be definite limits put on the number of questions asked within a timeframe. Thus, everybody would know what the rules are and people wouldn\'t get \"helpful\" comments. Myself included.


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 11:04
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Hmmmmmmmmmm May 13, 2003

About the case in question, my dictionary, installed on my computer (German- Latvian, at that), shows \" Anschaffung\" as \"purchase\" (as does a heap of other printed ones)- so I do not understand why you had to ask this question in the first place- don\'t you own a dictionary?



_________________



[ This Message was edited by: uldis on 2003-05-13 20:51]


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Ron Stelter  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:04
Member (2003)
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
HMMMMM May 13, 2003

Dictionaries say many things and answers are almost always highly dependent upon context. It\'s almost never as clear as \"Katze=cat.\"



And I own about 8 dictionaries. Thank you for your \"concern.\"


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 11:04
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Please accept my congratulations :) May 13, 2003

Quote:


And I own about 8 dictionaries.





BTW, how many it is \"about 8\"?



Uldis,

intrigued
[addsig]

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xxxBBaur
United States
Local time: 04:04
English to German
+ ...
A dictionary is only a tool May 13, 2003

[Edited at 2003-11-30 21:19]

[Edited at 2003-11-30 21:20]


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